Used car dealers - are they all dodgy?

WhyTheFace

Hi,

I'm looking at buying a basic car, Ford Focus 2007-2008 for €4-5k. I don't need a car that much as I live in Dublin City but at my age I need a full licence and I need to practice. Also nice to have the option to head off on weekends etc. (With a fully licensed driver with me of course until I pass the test).

There seems to be a decent selection of cars on the likes of carzone.ie with most used dealers located around Bluebell, Red Cow etc. I've seen this area referred to in another thread as the "Bermuda Triangle" of dealerships on account of them closing down overnight and popping up again.

My question is how dodgy are these guys? As someone who has f all experience buying cars surely they are more secure than meeting a stranger off done deal for a private sale?

I just want to minimise the chances of getting stroked and buying a basic car to get me around.

All opinions welcome!

biko

No, used car dealers are not all dodgy, even among Dublin dealers I am fairly sure most are good.

Post some cars you are interested in and we will judge them on their own merits.

audiavantawx

Dont be afraid of using private sellers either
You will have more sway on price and get a few quid of if you play your cards right
Pay somebody with a mechanical knowledge to go with you though (Look for service history)
Do a backround check 15/25 Euro,money well spent especially if your spending 5 grand

bazz26

If your looking at the cheapest examples of a particular model and year then your bound to be dredging the bottom of the market when it comes to both the car and the seller. 5k for me is the touching point where buying private can outweigh buying from a dealer. Buying from a private buyer who has owned the car for years and knows it well versus buying from a dealer who took it as a trade-in, doesn't know much about it and just wants to make money from it while probably not offering much in the way of aftersales if there is an issue. Not all dealers are like this of course, there are some decent ones out there just like there are plenty of dodgy but cute hoor private sellers.

Henry Ford III

bazz26 wrote: »

If your looking at the cheapest examples of a particular model and year then your bound to be dredging the bottom of the market when it comes to both the car and the seller. 5k for me is the touching point where buying private can outweigh buying from a dealer. Buying from a private buyer who has owned the car for years and knows it well versus buying from a dealer who took it as a trade-in, doesn't know much about it and just wants to make money from it while probably not offering much in the way of aftersales if there is an issue. Not all dealers are like this of course, there are some decent ones out there just like there are plenty of dodgy but cute hoor private sellers.

There is huge value is buying a nearly new car privately.

1/. Manufacturer warranty - comprehensive.
2/. One owner.
3/. Verifiable service history.
4/. Keener price.

You won't be able to trade in or some finance deals (probably) but the benefits are significant.

I've sold dozens of cars in this way for up to €36k.

A clever well informed buyer will always find value.

bazz26

There are also some disadvantages to buying high value cars privately:

1. For example, with a private sale there is no recourse with the seller if an issue arises due to negligence by the previous keeper, that is not covered under the manufacturer's warranty.
2. Your target market is also smaller as buyers avail of finance/credit or have a car to part exchange.
3. Buyer peace of mind, many buyers when spending large amounts of money do prefer to buy from a dealer because of the aforementioned reasons. The more they spend the more potential risk.

jimmycrackcorm

The disadvantage of buying second hand from a dealer is that you might only get a three or six month limited warranty and pay a premium for that. If you buy privately at a cheaper price, the savings will help if something goes wrong long after a warranty runs out.

Henry Ford III

bazz26 wrote: »

There are also some disadvantages to buying high value cars privately:

1. For example, with a private sale there is no recourse with the seller if an issue arises due to negligence by the previous keeper, that is not covered under the manufacturer's warranty.
2. Your target market is also smaller as buyers avail of finance/credit or have a car to part exchange.
3. Buyer peace of mind, many buyers when spending large amounts of money do prefer to buy from a dealer because of the aforementioned reasons. The more they spend the more potential risk.

1/. and 3/. are nonsense. With 1 owner, a fsh and report on the overall vehicle health (it even includes a video of the underneath) plus a tyre report, and a full manufacturers warranty such cars are actually better and cleaner than most dealers can stock.

Add in considerably better value and it's a winning position for a canny cash buyer.

MarkN

Henry Ford III wrote: »

1/. and 3/. are nonsense. With 1 owner, a fsh and report on the overall vehicle health (it even includes a video of the underneath) plus a tyre report, and a full manufacturers warranty such cars are actually better and cleaner than most dealers can stock.

Add in considerably better value and it's a winning position for a canny cash buyer.

I don’t know how you can say 1 is nonsense Henry. If someone buys from you personally, they’re getting a decent honest person. If they do however buy a lemon, a stolen car etc they’ve zero comeback and their money is also gone up in smoke.

I’ve also sold big enough money cars from my door over the years so I know it can be done but you will get people that wouldn’t risk it.

Arthur Daley

No. But the same few names can crop up time to time as having a bad rep, especially where there are frequent name changes, so I'd just do a bit of research.

WhyTheFace

biko wrote: »

No, used car dealers are not all dodgy, even among Dublin dealers I am fairly sure most are good.

Post some cars you are interested in and we will judge them on their own merits.

Thanks Biko!!

http://www.chartonmotorcompany.ie/vehicles/ford/focus/dublin/1902706

http://www.chartonmotorcompany.ie/vehicles/ford/focus/dublin/1925314

bazz26

Henry Ford III wrote: »

1/. and 3/. are nonsense. With 1 owner, a fsh and report on the overall vehicle health (it even includes a video of the underneath) plus a tyre report, and a full manufacturers warranty such cars are actually better and cleaner than most dealers can stock.

Add in considerably better value and it's a winning position for a canny cash buyer.

Not nonsense in one bit.

Underlying problems as a result of poor maintenance, accident damage or neglect by the former owner that were not disclosed or spotted by an expert at the time of purchase can result in the car manufacturer can washing their hands regarding warranty, leaving a private buyer without a leg to stand on legally or financially. So the savings can be greater but so is the risk, it's not just win\win. It;s a risk many people won't take irrespective of their financial situation.

Also I know you have experience of selling high value cars privately but what about buying them?

loyatemu

just stay away from these 2 and you'll be grand...

Henry Ford III

bazz26 wrote: »

Not nonsense in one bit.

Underlying problems as a result of poor maintenance, accident damage or neglect by the former owner that were not disclosed or spotted by an expert at the time of purchase can result in the car manufacturer can washing their hands regarding warranty, leaving a private buyer without a leg to stand on legally or financially. So the savings can be greater but so is the risk, it's not just win\win. It;s a risk many people won't take irrespective of their financial situation.

Also I know you have experience of selling high value cars privately but what about buying them?

I bought all of them

I'll just leave the rest of that as it's silly.

Henry Ford III

MarkN wrote: »

I don’t know how you can say 1 is nonsense Henry. If someone buys from you personally, they’re getting a decent honest person. If they do however buy a lemon, a stolen car etc they’ve zero comeback and their money is also gone up in smoke.

I’ve also sold big enough money cars from my door over the years so I know it can be done but you will get people that wouldn’t risk it.

All my cars are a year or less old, one owner, fully serviced, uncrashed and not abused.

It's a bit of a no brainer to buy such a car direct rather than pay a dealer a mark up for exactly the same thing but people will make that call themselves.

WhyTheFace

I've got SFA experience and no mechanic friends. For my first car I will go for a dealer in the hope that if there are issues I can revert back to them for assistance. Of course there are pros and cons to both.

Does this look like a fair price?

http://www.chartonmotorcompany.ie/vehicles/ford/focus/dublin/1902706

Agricola

I've looked at 5 cars from second hand small dealers in the past couple of years. 3 of them were A1, ended up buying the cars in question. They were honest, accurately described, and the owners were pleasant to deal with and seemed very genuine. Didn't have any use of the 3 month warranties but I'd fully expect them to honour them.

2 of them were dodgy. Both selling cars that had underlying issues that were never mentioned and took me to discover. Luckily I did before parting with cash or I would have bought two lemons. Aside from the cars, I just got the "used car salesman" vibe from those two, I nearly felt like I should walk away from them before I even checked the cars out thoroughly. In both cases they just wanted to get rid of a problem and hand it over to some unsuspecting poor mug.

All in all, nothing wrong with them if you go in with two eyes open and preferably have 4 eyes in the shape of another person with you. On balance, I'd probably prefer to buy a car privately from someone who's actually known it and who isn't in the business of selling them for a profit.

bazz26

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I bought all of them

I'll just leave the rest of that as it's silly.

Right...

colm_mcm

WhyTheFace wrote: »

I've got SFA experience and no mechanic friends. For my first car I will go for a dealer in the hope that if there are issues I can revert back to them for assistance. Of course there are pros and cons to both.

Does this look like a fair price?

http://www.chartonmotorcompany.ie/vehicles/ford/focus/dublin/1902706

I don’t think this dealer has a great rep.

They have it since the start of December by the looks of things, kinda seems expensive for what it is.

Rumpy Pumpy

Keep away from any independent dealer operating in the Bermuda Triangle around Bluebell/Long Mile Road. Place is crawling with criminals and chancers.

WhyTheFace

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

Keep away from any independent dealer operating in the Bermuda Triangle around Bluebell/Long Mile Road. Place is crawling with criminals and chancers.

Can anyone suggest a reputable second hand dealer in Dublin so?

MarkN

Beshoffs Howth
Cambridge Motor Company
Harford Motors (slightly outside Dublin) has an ex Joe Duffy sales guy running it,
Spirit Motor Company
Gerry Cumiskey in Rathgar
Stillorgan Motor Company

I've only had direct dealings with Beshoffs, Harford and Stillorgan though.

WhyTheFace

MarkN wrote: »

Beshoffs Howth
Cambridge Motor Company
Harford Motors (slightly outside Dublin) has an ex Joe Duffy sales guy running it,
Spirit Motor Company
Gerry Cumiskey in Rathgar
Stillorgan Motor Company

I've only had direct dealings with Beshoffs, Harford and Stillorgan though.

Thanks a million. They seem to be higher end cars though, not too many in the €5k price range.