My dog keeps having fits

Starjump19

My dog keeps having fits, it's really frightening for us seeing him that way. I don't think he knows he has had a fit, lots of froth comes out of his mouth and it's lasts 3 minutes. Last time it happened his tongue turned blue. It sounds like he is choking but I can clearly see his chest going up and down. I have a video but I don't know where on upload it. The vet has done lots of bloods and an x-ray but as far as the tests go he is one of the healthiest boxers she has seen. We are now waiting on an appointment for a CT scan in Dublin. The vet mentioned idiopathic epilepsy but can't be 100%. I have a video now so I can take in to show her. He has had two very bad ones now and had two episodes where his face went funny and began twitching, he stood up and was shaking his head for ages. After his two bad fits his balance was very off, he was swaying and his back legs gave up on him half way up the stairs. Has anyone any information, or has this happened to anyone's pet? Thanks in advance. He is a 9 year old boxer called Asbo. He will be 10 in October.

Grab All Association

I’ve a terrier that’s 15 years old who had 6 fits in the past 5 years. Vet told us just to let him outside to the grass and he’ll get out of them himself. There’s medication that can stop them but it’s not worth it. As long as he’s in soft grass and can’t hit his head etc he’ll be fine.

Over 1 year and a 1/2 since he had one.

Btw it takes a few days/weeks for the balance to go back to normal

Nody

Honestly Starjump19 and without claiming to be a vet or anything related all I can say is as someone with a cat who's had epilepsy since a kitten the symptoms to me screams epilepsy in some form. The lack of muscle control, frothing, twitching etc. are all matching the symptoms of our cat though she goes way further to complete lack of body control, losing bladder control. starting walking in circles looking for the cause before the full seizure hits in and she falls over all muscles twitching etc. The good news is your dog goes not appear to have a full body grand mal seizure yet and it's something which can be reduced in occurrence and strength through medication.

Starjump19

Nody wrote: »

Honestly Starjump19 and without claiming to be a vet or anything related all I can say is as someone with a cat who's had epilepsy since a kitten the symptoms to me screams epilepsy in some form. The lack of muscle control, frothing, twitching etc. are all matching the symptoms of our cat though she goes way further to complete lack of body control, losing bladder control. starting walking in circles looking for the cause before the full seizure hits in and she falls over all muscles twitching etc. The good news is your dog goes not appear to have a full body grand mal seizure yet and it's something which can be reduced in occurrence and strength through medication.

This morning he had another fit but this time after he came around he urinated on the living room floor, I can't remember the last time he has had an accident in the house.

em_cat

The vet mentioned idiopathic epilepsy.

First off, you have my sympathies, I am empathetic to your situation as watching a pet have seizures of any kind, whether it be grand mal or not, is horrific as far as I am concerned.

My parents in law’s golden retriever developed epilepsy when she was about 2, not sure what grade, but her first fit happened on my watch, we took her straight to the UCD A&E. It took them several appointments before between her local vet & vet Hosp to diagnose epilepsy.

They put her on gabapentin & some other med to curb the seizures until full diagnosis. They curbed the seizures but she was very drowsy & wobbly but no seizures. Now she’s 10, off the meds & so far seizure free.

My point is just that the Vet doesn’t need to wait for the CT to give a maintenance dose of an anti-convulsion med. If the vet won’t consider that then look into cbd oil for dogs. I think there are a few a&p boardsies who can recommend where to get it.

I get really annoyed when our pets & pet parents have to suffer b/c some vets refuse to medicate to ease suffering.

DBB

If your dog has had more than a couple of seizures, chances are it's epilepsy. Boxers are prone to it.
What your vet can't tell without a CT scan is whether it is idiopathic (of unknown cause) or whether there's something affecting your dog's neurology within his head. Blood tests would have ruled in (or in your case, presumably ruled out) epilepsy caused by a problem with one of the major visceral organs/systems.
Whilst if a dog has an occasional seizure I'd broadly agree with not medicating, when you own a dog who could get an attack at any time, and has them regularly, you certainly would not be tempted to not medicate.
There are various meds available op... Once your vet gets the dosage right, chances are your dog will still have seizures, just not as often and/or of less severity or duration.
Losing control of the bladder and bowel is absolutely normal when a dog has a seizure. They can be very disorientated, even blind for some time following a seizure. I always let my dog get through her seizures (they're not aware of what's going on during seizures... Horrible for us to witness, but there's a degree of comfort in knowing the dog is in an unconscious state), but as soon as the actual seizure had stopped, I'd make sure to hold her snugly and wait for her to "come back" to me... That moment was always quite sudden and obvious... She'd suddenly look like she had just come out of a trance and would start responding to me... This could take up to an hour after the actual seizure had ended. I always felt it was important to be there for her at these moments.
Once your vet has a definitive diagnosis, s/he can bring you through what's likely to be ahead.
Good luck... I know well how distressing this is.

Edited to add... Humans with epilepsy often describe having a headache for a few hours after a seizure, and feeling weak and a bit crap for hours, even days afterwards. I'd assume our pets feel much the same way.

aonb

Agree totally with what DBB and em-cat says about managing your dog OP. We had an epileptic dog, and yes its horrible to watch, especially if grand mal seizures. Hopefully you can get meds sorted quickly, and get your lovely dog on some sort of an even keel. Absolutely expect toilet accidents after a seizure. Make sure lots of drinking water available (but he may knock it over). I used to give my guy 'comfort' food after a seizure, when he had recovered. Definitely he was always a bit scared and clingy after a seizure, and would want to be on my lap. I also recognized a 'snap' when he was alert/back from the seizure. Lots of head shaking, so agree there was a bit of headache/wooziness/disorientation going on. My guy used to be super-sensitive to noises after a fit - little things would startle him. He used to bump into things too. Sleep a good bit afterwards (though he was a champion sleeper!) He lived to a very ripe old age, and while he had the odd seizure, once the medication was sorted to his needs, he was pretty good. Let us know how you get on.

Starjump19

Starjump19 wrote: »

My dog keeps having fits, it's really frightening for us seeing him that way. I don't think he knows he has had a fit, lots of froth comes out of his mouth and it's lasts 3 minutes. Last time it happened his tongue turned blue. It sounds like he is choking but I can clearly see his chest going up and down. I have a video but I don't know where on upload it. The vet has done lots of bloods and an x-ray but as far as the tests go he is one of the healthiest boxers she has seen. We are now waiting on an appointment for a CT scan in Dublin. The vet mentioned idiopathic epilepsy but can't be 100%. I have a video now so I can take in to show her. He has had two very bad ones now and had two episodes where his face went funny and began twitching, he stood up and was shaking his head for ages. After his two bad fits his balance was very off, he was swaying and his back legs gave up on him half way up the stairs. Has anyone any information, or has this happened to anyone's pet? Thanks in advance. He is a 9 year old boxer called Asbo. He will be 10 in October.

So since this morning I have been to a vet up in Dublin who gave our boy a mri scan, our worst fears came through. . Poor Asbo has a brain tumour and it's quiet large the vet said that he wouldn't expect a life expectancy of more than 6 months. We have asked for the scans to be sent to England for a second opinion even though I know from seeing his fits. He is on 9 tablets a day for the next two weeks to see how he is taking to them and we will go from there. Heart broken is really an understatement. . God knows how I'm going to tell my little lad. Thanks for all your replies and advice.

DBB

Oh I'm so sorry to hear that op, devastating news. That awful and shocking realisation that you're going to lose your great pal sooner than you had imagined
I'm afraid I had my suspicions that a brain tumour would be the problem... The poor old boxers are so prone to various cancers, and when they develop epilepsy so late in life, it's all too often caused by a brain tumour
You acted quickly and definitively though, which hopefully means his meds can be tailor made to make him as comfortable as possible.
You have my every sympathy op, and you will have lots of sympathetic ears and support here if you need some shoulders to lean on. Many of us have been where you are now, we understand how you're feeling

em_cat

I’m so very terribly sorry to hear that is the diagnosis. It is absolutely heartbreaking. I really am lost for words...

sillysmiles

Ah god, thats awful news.
What age is you child? My sister recently bought books on grief and dealing with death for her children after the death of their granddad, but are rereading them in preparation for their old dog being pts. Interestingly, my nephew was very accepting of the ld dog being pts as then he wouldn't hurt anymore.

aonb

Thats very sad OP. Hopefully the medication will help manage the seizuires, and give some sort of quality of life to your dog. Lots of spoiling and treats and TLC, enjoy your time with your dog, and try not to think to hard about whats ahead until you have to

Mr.Nice Guy

Very sad to read this thread. Best wishes to the OP. It's also worrying as the same sort of thing has been happening to my Dad's dog which is a young cocker. He had his first seizure a few months back. Tests were done but nothing showed the cause in them. They seemed to be fairly sporadic and happened every few weeks which presumably is why the vet recommended no medication at the time.

Unfortunately, a few days back, having gone a few weeks without any, the dog took a really bad turn one night and ended up having about fifteen during the course of an evening, including vomiting at one stage. The next day the vet injected him with something and recommended he be put on daily medication after that. I saw the dog the day after the first dose and he looked very disoriented, constantly pacing and sniffing everything, almost as if he wasn't sure of his surroundings. Not sure if this is a result of the meds or the seizures.

I mentioned to my Dad about the possibility it could be tumour-related. As far as I know the vets haven't suggested any brain scans as yet. Really hope it doesn't end up coming to that. My Dad was even talking about possibly having to put him down if what happened the other night becomes the norm, and I know he wouldn't say that lightly as he loves the dog and never went to bed the night of the seizures so he could watch him. He told me the dog was terrified by the whole experience and it was very upsetting to see. I've seen the dog have one of these seizures before and remember the dog being very spooked by it - fifteen in the space of 12 hours must be terrible. There haven't been any fits since the meds started so here's hoping they can make things better.

Update - I want to update this because I spoke to my Dad earlier and our dog isn't in fact out of the woods yet. Aside from looking like he wasn't sure who everyone was, he also began drooling from the mouth. He continued pacing about as well. My Dad brought him back to the vet once again and it turned out that this all indicated the dog was still having seizures - he just hadn't lost consciousness on this occasion. It wasn't a side effect from the meds said the vet - in fact the meds may not be strong enough. So the dog is now being kept for observation for a few days. That's something other owners going through this should be aware of because you may, like our family, not have been unaware of this: if you notice drooling from a dog with a seizure history, coupled with symptoms of confusion about surroundings and constant pacing - the dog may still be having seizures. The vet said always bring in a dog if he or she is displaying this type of behaviour.

jellybear

So sorry OP and MrNiceGuy. Will be thinking of you both and please keep us updated MrNiceGuy, hopefully the vet can get to the bottom of what's causing the seizures. Will be thinking of your dad too. That night must have been never ending for him

Mr.Nice Guy

jellybear wrote: »

So sorry OP and MrNiceGuy. Will be thinking of you both and please keep us updated MrNiceGuy, hopefully the vet can get to the bottom of what's causing the seizures. Will be thinking of your dad too. That night must have been never ending for him

Thanks. The vet was satisfied enough to allow the dog go home and he is now on a daily dose of Phenobarbital. He's pretty out of it at the moment. He hasn't got his old personality traits at the minute which is a worry, for example previously when he'd see my Dad take his leash he'd rush around excitedly whereas now he stares at the leash with a vacant expression and he has to be coaxed outside. Also he has been going to the toilet indoors whereas previously he was very well house trained and would sit patiently by the door when he wanted to be let out to go the toilet. I was alarmed by this but I've been reading a couple of dog forums and apparently this can be common in this situation for the first week or two. We have to hope this is only a temporary thing and he will recover.

The dog was given shots of valium the night he was having non stop seizures and the Phenobarbital is meant to be pretty strong stuff as well so there's a lot of drugs in his system. He's pacing a lot, drinking tons of water and eating loads and he was also chewing everything he could find as well. The vet has been very good and has phoned to check up on him and he's responded to some queries from my Dad too. The vet seems pretty optimistic about things. Physically the dog is strong, it's just whatever is going on in his brain that's the problem.

There was an encouraging moment earlier though: my Dad told me he left the garden briefly and closed the gate behind him and next thing the dog had jumped the wall and ran after him. This is a classic trait that our dog used to do when he was in good health and it gave us a bit of hope that his old self is still in there. I saw the dog for an hour earlier and he did wag his tail a little bit at me whereas previously he seemed too dazed to respond to me or anything.

The dog doesn't seem to have had any seizures since taking the meds which was our main concern. If we can get his old personality back we'll be delighted.