Child Does Not Want To See Father

TheFever

Hi,

I am aware of a lond drawn out legal battle where a father continues domestic abuse through the courts. 137 days in court so far, Child only 10.

He demands to pay less maintenance, change of access, whatever he can do to get into court he will do, enforce order, he has been given an Isaac Wunder order such is his abuse, but he can win over certain judges with his I want to see my son speech.

Now it is at the stage where the boy does not want to see his father, he is afraid of him, and his constant interference. Social workers are involved and he is meant to go this Friday. Heis terrified and court is not hearing it again until next month.


What can happen to the boys mother ? She is not refusing access, the child does not want to go.

Loveinapril

Does the social worker supervise the access? I would tell them and they can advocate on the child's behalf regarding access.

TheFever

Loveinapril wrote: »

Does the social worker supervise the access? I would tell them and they can advocate on the child's behalf regarding access.

The social worker does not supervise. Social worker agrees that access should stop as child is afraid of father. But that does not really mean anything, until a report is done, which can take months. So stuck between a rock and a hard place.

ForestFire

TheFever wrote: »

The social worker does not supervise. Social worker agrees that access should stop as child is afraid of father. But that does not really mean anything, until a report is done, which can take months. So stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear about your bad relationship, but I hope you are thinking about the long term for your son and all avenues open to you.

This is the child's farther...should your (And social workers) first course of action not be to get him to see his Father? And I presume there was no abuse directed at the son at any time.

I am not saying you just dump him with the father and that's it,

But have you tried to talk to him about the importance of his father? Determine why he is afraid, explain that while you and you Ex are not happy with each other that he still loves his son more than anything??

Have you spoken to his father about how his son is feeling, so the father can try to reassure him and/or change his behavior.

Maybe you have been through all of this, but it seems your just asking how I can stop him seeing his father.

Why do you mean by the Farther constant interference? Is this about the court cases? How does your son know about these? Or about correct your son?

TheFever

ForestFire wrote: »

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear about your bad relationship, but I hope you are thinking about the long term for your son and all avenues open to you.

This is the child's farther...should your (And social workers) first course of action not be to get him to see his Father? And I presume there was no abuse directed at the son at any time.

I am not saying you just dump him with the father and that's it,

But have you tried to talk to him about the importance of his father? Determine why he is afraid, explain that while you and you Ex are not happy with each other that he still loves his son more than anything??

Have you spoken to his father about how his son is feeling, so the father can try to reassure him and/or change his behavior.

Maybe you have been through all of this, but it seems your just asking how I can stop him seeing his father.

Why do you mean by the Farther constant interference? Is this about the court cases? How does your son know about these? Or about correct your son?

Thanks for your reply. First off he is not my ex. I am a bystander who is very close to the boy.



Secondly the father is obsessed with power, and whilst that might sound strange to you . It happens, he doesn’t care about the boy, he just wants to inflict as much chaos into the boys mothers life as possible .


For instance a family holiday in October, 2 different Garda stations contact the mother as father reported child abduction.

There is no talking to this man, he is a very violent and obsessive man. Have tried mediation, counseling, you name it, He says all the right things and champions fathers rights,

The father is not important to the child, he has had had ten years of turmoil . His first day in a new school the father burst in and demanded he not be enrolled as he is a guardian. Kid sent home crying, this is the interference I am talking about, the fathers rights come first over anything the boy wants .

10 years of courts and social workers , gardai, the boy is now sick of the whole thing and does not want to see his father.

So what you are saying is very Romantic but is not possible .

You ask how does the son know about the court cases ? 137 days in court over 10 years is very hard to shield from a child, that works out on average 1 day a month, add that to solicitor meetings , legal aid applications , non stop post from courts coming to house, the father issuing summons at the school gates in front of the boy , sitting in a pool and Gardai ringing, you would need to be invisible to not notice.

So I wonder what will happen Friday.

Dravokivich

The child's needs should come first and foremost. Have the mother speak with her solicitor about that before Friday. The family courts isn't about battling "Fathers Rights," it's about putting together a viable solution for the child.

Their solicitor should be putting it to the judge about all this interference you've out layed. Don't assume any motivations, it should be on the father to explain to the judge his reasonings for these rather bizzare actions.

If a report needs to be done, enquire about having access amended pending results. If Tusla are involved, they can be can be called in as witnesses.

But overall, you need to be very careful about what you discuss regarding this and where you do so. These hearings are held "In Camera," meaning they aren't typically meant to be published in public.

ForestFire

Yes I agree that the child's needs should come first and foremost.

In this case, with the additional details provided, it looks like this is primarily the father himself causing the issues for the child and therefore it maybe best to remove this access.

But also, just to highlight why I asked the original question, I have seen first hand were a Mother has used their children to get revenge on the father following a break up, and blocks access of the child to the Father however possible (Even to the point of lieing to the children to make them scared of their Father), where this is not in the best interest of the child and not the doing of the loving father.

But each case is different, as is this one.

Big Bag of Chips

Does the mother have a solicitor? If so what are they doing/saying in court? Is nobody pointing out to the judge that this is an ongoing saga? Is there an access order in place? If so, mother sticks to it 100%. If it states a time and place for the child to be collected, be at the time and place. Wait 10-15 minutes. If he doesn't show up, go to the local garda station and have the order stamped, dated and initialled. Do this EVERY time.

It sounds like Dad doesn't want access, just wants to throw his weight around. He will not like be told he has to stick to a schedule, so he is unlikely to show up for access at a time being dictated by someone else.

If there is not a rigid order in place, get it. In court ask for an access agreement that states exactly when and where. She can also ask for supervised access. She may have to supervise it herself though. There are centres around the country that can facilitate supervised access but I don't know much about them.

If the Dad threatens the child, or the mam, she should go to the guards. Have it recorded. Keep a log herself.

She knows what she's dealing with, so she needs to get proactive. Her solicitor should be fighting her corner in court and pointing out the ludicrous claims that are being brought back to court over and over again. Ask for a set order to be put in place to wipe out all the arsing around. That way, both sides stick 100% to what is written and there is no need for toing and froing. He'll still do it, but at least she will have the order in her favour.

TheFever

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Does the mother have a solicitor? If so what are they doing/saying in court? Is nobody pointing out to the judge that this is an ongoing saga? Is there an access order in place? If so, mother sticks to it 100%. If it states a time and place for the child to be collected, be at the time and place. Wait 10-15 minutes. If he doesn't show up, go to the local garda station and have the order stamped, dated and initialled. Do this EVERY time.

It sounds like Dad doesn't want access, just wants to throw his weight around. He will not like be told he has to stick to a schedule, so he is unlikely to show up for access at a time being dictated by someone else.

If there is not a rigid order in place, get it. In court ask for an access agreement that states exactly when and where. She can also ask for supervised access. She may have to supervise it herself though. There are centres around the country that can facilitate supervised access but I don't know much about them.

If the Dad threatens the child, or the mam, she should go to the guards. Have it recorded. Keep a log herself.

She knows what she's dealing with, so she needs to get proactive. Her solicitor should be fighting her corner in court and pointing out the ludicrous claims that are being brought back to court over and over again. Ask for a set order to be put in place to wipe out all the arsing around. That way, both sides stick 100% to what is written and there is no need for toing and froing. He'll still do it, but at least she will have the order in her favour.

Thanks, the Guards are well aware and are very slow to do anything. Everything that you mentioned has been done, exact times, exact dates, exact places. He sticks to it for two weeks then goes back to court to get it changed, doesn't suit anymore. Chances are you get a different judge who doesn't have the full file in front of him. The father plays the legal system to a tee, knows exactly what judge will do what. Things not going his way, move county, different court house. Always represents himself. Solcitors can be pricy a 50k debt is owed to one, and another is on board now, seems to be good, but again pricey.

I certainly think family law needs to be taken out of in camera so people like him cannot hide behind closed doors.

The child is terrified does not want to go this Friday, is adamant, the school are aware, I am sure the judge will not be happy, but it is not the mother at fault, what would you do if your child did not want to go somewhere ?

Perhaps it may be jail for her, who knows, what a mess.

Big Bag of Chips

I stand to be corrected but I don't think a mother has ever been sent to jail for witholding access, even without the mitigating factors in this case. If I felt my child was in very real danger, then jail is a chance I'd take in order to keep them safe.

MayoSalmon

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

I stand to be corrected but I don't think a mother has ever been sent to jail for witholding access, even without the mitigating factors in this case. If I felt my child was in very real danger, then jail is a chance I'd take in order to keep them safe.

Corrected

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/news/145710/Mum-sentenced-to-jail-over-access.html

Dravokivich

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Corrected

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/news/145710/Mum-sentenced-to-jail-over-access.html

It seems to be behind a paywall though. Anywhere else it was reported?

Big Bag of Chips

I read a small portion of it a while back, funnily enough when I googled "mother sent to jail for withholding access"!

It said "in a highly unusual move" the mother was sentenced to 7 days in jail. It was for withholding access but there were other factors at play. It also said she wasn't in jail as it was appealed and she was granted bail.

I couldn't see past that, so again, I'm not sure if she or any other mother were ever sent to jail for withholding access.