The last institute of State Abuse??

mountai

Another groveling apology today from the HSE to a family for killing their child . Five and a half years after the event , lies and cover up exposed . This follows up yesterdays incident where two members of the same family were killed by incompetence in Tipperary . Every day now we see the same story . The Church , the Guards , Judiciary etc have been exposed . When is enough , enough , and Obrien and his ilk going to be held accountable for these disgraceful acts ?. I have asked this question before . " Is there not ONE Politician of Honour in the Dail that will protect us"??

They'll just never admit guilt. Well, til they've wasted a few years of people's lives and shown to be completely in the wrong.

SEPT 23 1989

I read somewhere that the HSE eg us the taxpayer have spent 900million euro in legal fees fighting poor familys like this in the last 20 years

Harry Palmr

I dunno if it's just a case of noticing the stream of medical malpractice cases because they get lots of coverage as a rule but there sure do seem to be lot of them for the size of the population.

As for the refusal to admit liability - it's beaten into administrators and consultants long before they have a given post. A bit like a car crash. Say nothing and hope to get off lightly. I dunno the law but maybe some sort of 'settlement without admittance of liability' clause is needed to allow a case to be expedited swiftly.

mountai

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I dunno if it's just a case of noticing the stream of medical malpractice cases because they get lots of coverage as a rule but there sure do seem to be lot of them for the size of the population.

As for the refusal to admit liability - it's beaten into administrators and consultants long before they have a given post. A bit like a car crash. Say nothing and hope to get off lightly. I dunno the law but maybe some sort of 'settlement without admittance of liability' clause is needed to allow a case to be expedited swiftly.

The worst aspect , are the deliberate lies and cover ups that take place . Without exception , the families are put through hell . Is there no onus on "Professional" standards to be applied? . The culture within the HSE is rotten to the core . Anyone who questions HSE policy is vilified and there is absolutely no accountability . The Minister wrings his hands and says " Yes , we will have to take a look at it" **** , one and all .

Your Face

mountai wrote: »

The worst aspect , are the deliberate lies and cover ups that take place . Without exception , the families are put through hell . Is there no onus on "Professional" standards to be applied? . The culture within the HSE is rotten to the core . Anyone who questions HSE policy is vilified and there is absolutely no accountability . The Minister wrings his hands and says " Yes , we will have to take a look at it" **** , one and all .

What are you going to do about it?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Deleted User wrote: »

They'll just never admit guilt. Well, til they've wasted a few years of people's lives and shown to be completely in the wrong.

Even then they often times don't accept liability, they'll just pay out a compensation package.

We're all human, everyone makes mistakes, even medical professionals, but you have to hold your hands up when you do.

mountai

Your Face wrote: »

What are you going to do about it?

Vote for The Shinners , next time . Never thought I would consider this but the establishment will never do right thing and take on the HSE. Are "You" happy with the status quo , what do "you" propose?.

wakka12

I don't see how its abuse. Im sure all the hospital staff tried their hardest, who wants the blood of a dead child on their hands no matter how incompetent they may be

Cyrus

mountai wrote: »

Vote for The Shinners , next time . .

im sure they will fix everything

c.p.w.g.w

Cyrus wrote: »

im sure they will fix everything

If not, sure they can make some of the problems disappear maybe

suicide_circus

mountai wrote: »

Vote for The Shinners , next time . Never thought I would consider this but the establishment will never do right thing and take on the HSE. Are "You" happy with the status quo , what do "you" propose?.

How many middle management and administrators would SF get rid of?

mountai

wakka12 wrote: »

I don't see how its abuse. Im sure all the hospital staff tried their hardest, who wants the blood of a dead child on their hands no matter how incompetent they may be

So deliberate cover up , lying and obstruction , is not abuse?. Everyone makes mistakes , its how you face up to the consequences is what matters . Why prolong the suffering of ordinary people in their search for answers ? . This culture must be changed.

Cyrus

mountai wrote: »

So deliberate cover up , lying and obstruction , is not abuse?. Everyone makes mistakes , its how you face up to the consequences is what matters . Why prolong the suffering of ordinary people in their search for answers ? . This culture must be changed.

of course if they hold their hands up every time there is an allegation of wrong doing they will be paying out a fortune in compensation. if they believe in some cases that there wasnt negligence on the part of their staff they have to defend it.

seamus

mountai wrote: »

Vote for The Shinners , next time . Never thought I would consider this but the establishment will never do right thing and take on the HSE. Are "You" happy with the status quo , what do "you" propose?.

Sinn Fein are no strangers to corruption, cover-ups, hand-wringing and lies.

Part of the problem here is that medicine is not an exact science by any measure. Something going wrong, no matter how disastrously, does not mean that anyone is "in the wrong". Mistakes will be made, but the question is whether those mistakes were the result of carelessness or negligence.

Making the wrong call is part and parcel of medicine, and doctors should not be penalised/vilified for doing so, provided that they made the wrong call for the right reasons. People have real trouble accepting this, they always assume that death due to "medical misadventure" was a deliberate, malicious or negligent act.

But when you go to investigate the nature of incidents like this, you encounter the problem of Ireland being too small a country. Doctors are inclined to err on the side of caution anyway - to assume the best of their colleagues - but when you have a country like Ireland where you're likely to encounter a given doctor at some point in the future, a doctor is going to be very slow to drop another one in the crap.

And this flows all the way up, so everyone in the HSE puts their best foot forward and is scared to step out of line, blow the whistle, and anger the colleagues that they have to deal with every day.

It might sound like quango-land, but if we a had an independent body with the exclusive competency to investigate medical complaints and a policy of using consultants and experts not based in Ireland, we might get to the bottom of stuff like this faster and more fairly.

At present it's up to the doggedness of family members engaging solicitors and medical professionals to get answers, and that's not right.

professore

Medical personnel are human and make mistakes. Accidents happen. Sometimes there is no good choice, only the one that will do the least harm.

Being a surgeon is a horrendously difficult job.

This is something a lot of people have a problem accepting, from the layperson to the HSE. If there was a more honest culture of putting your hands up and accepting that a mistake or being honest when it is an accident. The last thing we want is for surgeons to let people die because they are afraid of being sued.

There is a fantastic book by called “Do No Harm” an English brain surgeon called Henry Marsh. Here is an excerpt ...

By midnight, Marsh and his team had removed almost all of the tumor. The atmosphere in the operating theatre was relaxed and celebratory; the surgical team paused for cigarette breaks and listened to Abba and Bach. “I should have stopped at that point, and left the last piece of tumor behind,” Marsh writes in his memoir, “Do No Harm” (Thomas Dunne). Instead, he ventured further—he wanted to be able to say that he had taken it all out. “As I started to remove the last part of the tumor,” Marsh writes, “I tore a small perforating branch off the basilar artery, a vessel the width of a thick pin. A narrow jet of bright red arterial blood started to pump upwards.” The basilar artery carries blood to the brain stem, which regulates the rest of the brain. Marsh quickly stopped the bleeding, but the oxygen deprivation was enough to irreparably damage the man’s brain stem, and he never regained consciousness.


https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/05/18/anatomy-of-error

He has made numerous mistakes in his time as a surgeon, but admitted to them, and lectures other surgeons about the importance of doing the same.

Mrs OBumble

It's not the last institute: there's also direct provision.

Your Face

mountai wrote: »

Vote for The Shinners , next time . Never thought I would consider this but the establishment will never do right thing and take on the HSE. Are "You" happy with the status quo , what do "you" propose?.

Yeah I love the Quo.

"Vote for the Shinners"
I actually laughed out loud at that.

RustyNut

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's not the last institute: there's also direct provision.

Our generations magdalene laundries, shame on us.

splinter65

wakka12 wrote: »

I don't see how its abuse. Im sure all the hospital staff tried their hardest, who wants the blood of a dead child on their hands no matter how incompetent they may be

The abuse starts when the family complain, or even just look for an explanation or an apology, and the medical facility refuse to engage with them, lie, falsify records, close ranks and cover for one another instead of just holding up their hands and saying “yes. We’re sorry. We cocked up. Your baby died. It couldn’t be any worse. We let you down. We’re going to examine everything that happened and get an idea of who or what is to blame and we will report back to you”.
It’s as if they hold the victims in contempt.
It’s the same in medicine and health all over the world.

mountai

Your Face wrote: »

Yeah I love the Quo.

"Vote for the Shinners"
I actually laughed out loud at that.

You a Troll????

dotsman

mountai wrote: »

Vote for The Shinners , next time . Never thought I would consider this but the establishment will never do right thing and take on the HSE. Are "You" happy with the status quo , what do "you" propose?.

Absolutely hilarious.

Let's all put the number 1 party for incompetence, secrecy, cover-ups, murder, lies, ignoring the wishes of the people, corruption, bullying etc in charge. That'll really fix it!!!

mountai

dotsman wrote: »

Absolutely hilarious.

Let's all put the number 1 party for incompetence, secrecy, cover-ups, murder, lies, ignoring the wishes of the people, corruption, bullying etc in charge. That'll really fix it!!!

"Set a thief to catch a thief" . Could these standards be applied to HSE !!!

Your Face

mountai wrote: »

You a Troll????

That response is very much typical for this type of poster.

koumi

I read an article somewhere last week and I can't even remember the topic so can't find a link, but a comment struck me and has stayed with me. It was probably spoken by someone who I would rarely agree with otherwise, I remember that, however truth transcends and it went along the lines of, "Irish people place too much trust in figures and institutes of authority", Come to think of it, it might have been spoken in terms of the Maurice McCabe Saga but extended across the board. From the catholic institutions, our Government departments, representatives, politicians, the HSE, the Gardai, educational institutions, the list goes on. And we do.
We should never stop holding these people, institutions accountable. (I worked in the HSE and have personal experience in that regard, but which for want of a bit of peace have no intention of discussing here)
I have said it before and will continue to say it until the day it arrives, we need an independent anti corruption agency to over see those who we have given and operate from positions of authority.