Selfish motorway driving

Wildly Boaring

Apart from flat out lane hogging and those who accelerate being while passed there are 2 examples that I hate.

1.
Tipping along for a few in lane 1 with another car following at same speed.
Approaching a truck.
Way too early my friend behind goes out into lane 2 and then accelerates just enough to block me in. Proceeds to overtake truck at exact same speed as I'm doing.

Only way to counteract is to react when they start to move and go out way too early too. Or brake, let them pass and sit in behind them whereupon they will probably slow down just a little too much. :mad:


2.
Several vehicles enter motorway at slow speed.
Car no 2 or 3 or 4 decides fup this and straight out into lane 2 to get past car 1 who may have been holding the whole queue up to miles.

Only problem is the car who goes straight out either doesn't have the horses or the wherewithal to get up to sufficient speed. Any who have moved out to lane 2 to let this lot merge have to brake and accelerate once this selfish git gets going.


Happy Friday!!! (It's got to be Friday)

tossy

Standard of driving on motorways is a joke but what do you expect, you are not allowed on a motorway as a learner and as soon as you pass your test you are supposed to learn on the fly with zero training.

dogmatix

1. Elephant racing.
2. Cars with one broken headlight - so lets put the remaining working one on full beams.
3. People who don't understand the concept of merging onto a motorway from a sliproad and will actually speed up to block you.
3. The excessively speeding wexford bus (only on the N11/M11).

Del2005

tossy wrote: »

Standard of driving on motorways is a joke but what do you expect, you are not allowed on a motorway as a learner and as soon as you pass your test you are supposed to learn on the fly with zero training.

Apart from the slightly higher speed it's not difficult to drive on a motorway, or dual carriageway, as opposed to other roads. Get up to speed before joining and keep left unless overtaking, how difficult is that to learn?

neris

Del2005 wrote: »

Apart from the slightly higher speed it's not difficult to drive on a motorway, or dual carriageway, as opposed to other roads. Get up to speed before joining and keep left unless overtaking, how difficult is that to learn?

For most drivers it seems very hard to learn

UnknownSpecies

I always experience your No. 1 OP. Absolutely grinds my gears, especially with CC on.

Del2005

neris wrote: »

For most drivers it seems very hard to learn

They just don't bother to even attempt to learn.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

PGE1970

Driving on the MI (Northbound) between Drogheda & Dundalk this morning.

I'm doing about 120kmph and move into passing lane. I quickly catch up a ford focus doing about 100kmph in the passing lane. There is no traffic ahead of them and no traffic (as I've passed it) on the inside lane.

They are simply sitting in the outside lane doing 100kmph. I'm not an aggressive driver so I sit for about a km hoping that they will notice me and move. They don't so I am left with no excuse but to undertake as I'm not one for flashing lights or sounding horns. I don't like undertaking but it was safe to do so.

As I pass, I look over. The driver is simply staring ahead seemingly oblivious of anything else. I did notice, however, a "N" sign on the rear window.

It's really poor driving but it's the complete lack of awareness that worries me.

Henry Ford III

PGE1970 wrote: »

Driving on the MI (Northbound) between Drogheda & Dundalk this morning.

I'm doing about 120kmph and move into passing lane. I quickly catch up a ford focus doing about 100kmph in the passing lane. There is no traffic ahead of them and no traffic (as I've passed it) on the inside lane.

They are simply sitting in the outside lane doing 100kmph. I'm not an aggressive driver so I sit for about a km hoping that they will notice me and move. They don't so I am left with no excuse but to undertake as I'm not one for flashing lights or sounding horns. I don't like undertaking but it was safe to do so.

As I pass, I look over. The driver is simply staring ahead seemingly oblivious of anything else. I did notice, however, a "N" sign on the rear window.

It's really poor driving but it's the complete lack of awareness that worries me.

Here we go. Again.

treascon

Mental cases who once finished sitting in the hard shoulder decide to pull straight out of same back onto the motorway oblivious to the fact that the majority of traffic coming from behind are doing 120 kms p/h. Mad stuff & totally dangerous but I've seen a fair few people do it!

Borderfox

Sometimes I would love to have a snowplough

CiniO

PGE1970 wrote: »

Driving on the MI (Northbound) between Drogheda & Dundalk this morning.

I'm doing about 120kmph and move into passing lane. I quickly catch up a ford focus doing about 100kmph in the passing lane. There is no traffic ahead of them and no traffic (as I've passed it) on the inside lane.

They are simply sitting in the outside lane doing 100kmph. I'm not an aggressive driver so I sit for about a km hoping that they will notice me and move. They don't so I am left with no excuse but to undertake as I'm not one for flashing lights or sounding horns. I don't like undertaking but it was safe to do so.

As I pass, I look over. The driver is simply staring ahead seemingly oblivious of anything else. I did notice, however, a "N" sign on the rear window.

It's really poor driving but it's the complete lack of awareness that worries me.

Flashing light at someone to move is not aggressive driving, but absolute standard way of signalling between drivers.

tossy

Del2005 wrote: »

Apart from the slightly higher speed it's not difficult to drive on a motorway, or dual carriageway, as opposed to other roads. Get up to speed before joining and keep left unless overtaking, how difficult is that to learn?

It's not the point, you can't expect a driving population who have just passed their test to teach themselves how to merge,drive on and exit a motorway all by themselves. It's irresponsible motoring policy and leads to bad habits which leads to frustration of other road users , frustrated drivers make rash/bad decisions which can lead to accidents.

Caliden

PGE1970 wrote: »

Driving on the MI (Northbound) between Drogheda & Dundalk this morning.

I'm doing about 120kmph and move into passing lane. I quickly catch up a ford focus doing about 100kmph in the passing lane. There is no traffic ahead of them and no traffic (as I've passed it) on the inside lane.

They are simply sitting in the outside lane doing 100kmph. I'm not an aggressive driver so I sit for about a km hoping that they will notice me and move. They don't so I am left with no excuse but to undertake as I'm not one for flashing lights or sounding horns. I don't like undertaking but it was safe to do so.

As I pass, I look over. The driver is simply staring ahead seemingly oblivious of anything else. I did notice, however, a "N" sign on the rear window.

It's really poor driving but it's the complete lack of awareness that worries me.

Flashing isn't aggressive if you've sat behind them for a km.

Personally I give them 5 seconds before flashing. If you don't notice a car behind you while you're not overtaking anything then you need to be flashed.

PGE1970

I accept the point re flashing and it does make sense. I suppose it's just not my style!:o

GreeBo

Del2005 wrote: »

Apart from the slightly higher speed it's not difficult to drive on a motorway, or dual carriageway, as opposed to other roads. Get up to speed before joining and keep left unless overtaking, how difficult is that to learn?

Well its much more important to stay left on a motorway than regular roads.
Obviously dual carriageways are the exception, but since they frequently have junctions and RH turns, its hard to categorically state that someone is in the wrong lane.

I'd wager most people driving on a Motorway have no idea that they are only supposed to drive in the left lane.

GreeBo

Caliden wrote: »

Flashing isn't aggressive if you've sat behind them for a km.

Personally I give them 5 seconds before flashing. If you don't notice a car behind you while you're not overtaking anything then you need to be flashed.

I'd rather indicate than flash.
Flash could mean a number of things to people, especially people who are driving in a world of their own.

elbyrneo

GreeBo wrote: »

.

I'd wager most people driving on a Motorway have no idea that they are only supposed to drive in the left lane.

My wife gets annoyed at me and says I'm stubborn by driving in the driving lane (Let's say the inside of two overtaking lanes) and going through the ordeal of overtaking cars who are coasting in the 1st passing lane by moving in to the second passing lane to then move all the way back to the driving lane and repeat ad infinitum.

Not only that but the odd passengers of friends and family wonder what I am at too.

Sad thing is I can see myself not bothering sometimes. Bored of it.

GreeBo

elbyrneo wrote: »

My wife gets annoyed at me and says I'm stubborn by driving in the driving lane (Let's say the inside of two overtaking lanes) and going through the ordeal of overtaking cars who are coasting in the 1st passing lane by moving in to the second passing lane to then move all the way back to the driving lane and repeat ad infinitum.

Not only that but the odd passengers of friends and family wonder what I am at too.

Sad thing is I can see myself not bothering sometimes. Bored of it.

My wife says "uh oh!" when she sees a MLM as she knows there is a rant coming

Del2005

tossy wrote: »

It's not the point, you can't expect a driving population who have just passed their test to teach themselves how to merge,drive on and exit a motorway all by themselves. It's irresponsible motoring policy and leads to bad habits which leads to frustration of other road users , frustrated drivers make rash/bad decisions which can lead to accidents.

Why can't an adult teach themselves to get up to speed before joining and keep left? It's not rocket science it's basic driving.

Wildly Boaring

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Here we go. Again.

I did say
"Apart from lane hogging"
Mainly as it's been done to death on this forum

This post was more about the selfish (and I think usually intentionally so) behaviour

Doctors room ghost

dogmatix wrote: »

1. Elephant racing.
2. Cars with one broken headlight - so lets put the remaining working one on full beams.
3. People who don't understand the concept of merging onto a motorway from a sliproad and will actually speed up to block you.
3. The excessively speeding wexford bus (only on the N11/M11).

Elephant racing?

jay48

Similar to 1 , approaching a truck , check the mirror , car approaching faster than I'm going so adjust my speed to get in behind them to overtake only for them to slow down to the speed of the truck , crawl by and floor it back up to the speed they were driving , meaning you have to brake as they box you in .

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Caliden

Caliden wrote: »

Flashing isn't aggressive if you've sat behind them for a km.

Personally I give them 5 seconds before flashing. If you don't notice a car behind you while you're not overtaking anything then you need to be flashed.

If you don't notice a car behind you then you need to pay more attention.

If you are stuck behind that person, then you need exercise patience and read up on when it is appropriate to use headlights. Definitely isn't in this situation. Amusing hearing people give out about people not knowing how to drive on motorways and then seeing advice to flash lights to get cars out of the way!

In my experience flashing lights are closely correlated with BMWs and Range Rovers accelerating up to my arse whilst I am performing a perfectly standard overtaking manoeuvre that happens to not involve doing 150kph, but maybe that's just me.

CiniO

Deleted User wrote: »

If you don't notice a car behind you then you need to pay more attention.

If you are stuck behind that person, then you need exercise patience and read up on when it is appropriate to use headlights. Definitely isn't in this situation. Amusing hearing people give out about people not knowing how to drive on motorways and then seeing advice to flash lights to get cars out of the way!

In my experience flashing lights are closely correlated with BMWs and Range Rovers accelerating up to my arse whilst I am performing a perfectly standard overtaking manoeuvre that happens to not involve doing 150kph, but maybe that's just me.

So why don't you provide us with some reading material about it.

Del2005

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you don't notice a car behind you then you need to pay more attention.

If you are stuck behind that person, then you need exercise patience and read up on when it is appropriate to use headlights. Definitely isn't in this situation. Amusing hearing people give out about people not knowing how to drive on motorways and then seeing advice to flash lights to get cars out of the way!

In my experience flashing lights are closely correlated with BMWs and Range Rovers accelerating up to my arse whilst I am performing a perfectly standard overtaking manoeuvre that happens to not involve doing 150kph, but maybe that's just me.

A flash of the headlights is not aggressive and is legal, it's to warn the road users of your position when overtaking and on motorbikes the switch is marked "Pass" . Using the horn is illegal.

Thing I've found is that if the person hogging the overtaking lane doesn't notice the vehicle coming up behind them, then either flashing/indicator/horn don't matter as they are asleep, but when you pull in and pass on the left they discover their head lights and flash you.

kerten

I was at the "never stay in overtaking lane" camp until I started to use m50 daily.

I ran out of patience trying to squeeze between cars making 70-80 km/h in middle lane or ones decide to move to middle lane without accelerating from 60k km/h.

I just stay bit over the limit in overtaking lane and watch my mirror to make sure I don't block anyone behind me.

I actually miss steady speed relaxed driving in left lane bu it is not possible before 9pm in m50.

r3nu4l

PGE1970 wrote: »

I accept the point re flashing and it does make sense. I suppose it's just not my style!:o

Stick your right indicator on... Ensuring you're far enough back for the driver in front to see it.

Won't help with the completely unaware but it can be perceived as being less aggressive than flashing lights manically...

Jeju

If I notice a slow driver in overtaking lane from a few hundred meters back I put on my full beams as I approach. As long as nobody else is affected it's less aggressive and usually gets the point across. I must point out as soon as I'm on the MW it's put on cruise 120 and stay happy out in the lane that has least traffic

Kleine Hundin

Oh those people would not survive driving on the autobahn in Germany.

There is a hierarchy and the drivers are predictable. And flashing the lights appear to be a normal mode of communication to nudge the car ahead doing 150 km/h back to the appropriate lane.

Driving on Irish motorways is so sedate.

tossy

Jeju wrote: »

If I notice a slow driver in overtaking lane from a few hundred meters back I put on my full beams as I approach. As long as nobody else is affected it's less aggressive and usually gets the point across. I must point out as soon as I'm on the MW it's put on cruise 120 and stay happy out in the lane that has least traffic

I'm going to assume you are a troll rather than a woeful driver :rolleyes:

dr.fuzzenstein

Del2005 wrote: »

Why can't an adult teach themselves to get up to speed before joining and keep left? It's not rocket science it's basic driving.

There's more to it than that. (Spoken Alan Partridge style).
Joining smoothly, keeping left, check mirrors NOT looking over shoulder before moving out. Moving back left again, again checking mirrors. Keeping in mind some cars may be speeding, judging the speed of other vehicles.
Not using the brakes, but only accelerator to speed up slow down and all that has to be second nature.
Not necessary? Hah! It is part of lessons in Germany (did 160 km/h) on my first run) and just look at the difference. The results make the argument 100% for lessons on the motorway.
Even if it is easy, why not have a lesson there?
Reasons against are, well, eerm, there is, I think... nope.
Not a single sane reason against and a million for it.
That is not even an argument. Anyone who says otherwise is a clown or trolling.

Del2005

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

There's more to it than that. (Spoken Alan Partridge style).
Joining smoothly, keeping left, check mirrors NOT looking over shoulder before moving out. Moving back left again, again checking mirrors. Keeping in mind some cars may be speeding, judging the speed of other vehicles.
Not using the brakes, but only accelerator to speed up slow down and all that has to be second nature.
Not necessary? Hah! It is part of lessons on Germany (did 160 km/h) on my first run) and just look at the difference.
Even if it is easy, why not have a lesson there?
Because, well, eerm, there is, I think... nope.
Not a single sane reason against and a million for it.
That is not even an argument. Anyone who says otherwise is a clown or trolling.

I was never trained how to join a motorway but since I've got common sense I managed to do all this, bar the lack of checking the blind spot when joining! You need to do the same when joining a normal road from a filter, it's just a bit faster on a motorway.

I do agree that our learning to drive system needs reform. But the lack of instruction on how to join a motorway is the least of the problems with the current system.

dr.fuzzenstein

Del2005 wrote: »

I was never trained how to join a motorway but since I've got common sense I managed to do all this, bar the lack of checking the blind spot when joining! You need to do the same when joining a normal road from a filter, it's just a bit faster on a motorway.

I do agree that our learning to drive system needs reform. But the lack of instruction on how to join a motorway is the least of the problems with the current system.

It's just silly not having a motorway segment for the lessons.
My argument is, having a motorway segment can only be beneficial, not having one isn't.
There simply is no argument not to have one.
Of course there should also be city driving, countryside, nighttime driving, every aspect should be covered.
It just makes sense.
Because now we have people who are scared, clueless and dangerous on the motorway, because it may be obvious to you and me, but not to everyone.

CiniO

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's just silly not having a motorway segment for the lessons.
My argument is, having a motorway segment can only be beneficial, not having one isn't.
There simply is no argument not to have one.
Of course there should also be city driving, countryside, nighttime driving, every aspect should be covered.
It just makes sense.
Because now we have people who are scared, clueless and dangerous on the motorway, because it may be obvious to you and me, but not to everyone.

First of all, it would be very difficult to fit all those withing only 12 hours lesson.

We should at least twice the amount of lessons required, as well as not allowing anyone to drive on their provisional in their own car, before they finish all compulsory lessons with an instructor.

So in short - theory test first, then 25-35 hours with instructor in all conditions, and all types of roads, then period of driving on your own with accompanying fully licenced driver, and driving test at the end.

To this we should add better training for driving instructors, and general modification of what is being taught and how.

And the we might start getting well educated drivers.

kirving

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's just silly not having a motorway segment for the lessons.
My argument is, having a motorway segment can only be beneficial, not having one isn't.
There simply is no argument not to have one.
Of course there should also be city driving, countryside, nighttime driving, every aspect should be covered.
It just makes sense.
Because now we have people who are scared, clueless and dangerous on the motorway, because it may be obvious to you and me, but not to everyone.

There should be, but that would require the RSA to admit that the current testing system is a joke, and that there are other factors in addition to speeding and drink driving that cause accidents.

Shane Ross said the other day that something like 35 deaths from 2008 to 2012 involved a driver who had between 21 - 80mg of alcohol in their system.

That means that 1,041 people who didn't have that level of alcohol on their system also died. This of course is ignoring people over the 80mg limit, but this isn't what Ross is targeting right now so I'll ignore it too.

So what's he's doing is creating a solution to a problem that doesn't exist (the 21-80mg deaths), because it grabs headlines for the least amount of work possible on his (and the RSA's side).

Sorry for the rant, off topic too, but my point is that the RSA have little to no interest in solving the tough problems such as reforming the testing system, which is clear from the standard of motorway driving in this country.

road_high

Del2005 wrote: »

Apart from the slightly higher speed it's not difficult to drive on a motorway, or dual carriageway, as opposed to other roads. Get up to speed before joining and keep left unless overtaking, how difficult is that to learn?

Very difficult if the average Irish motorway driver is anything to go by...

Riva10

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Shane Ross said the other day that something like 35 deaths from 2008 to 2012 involved a driver who had between 21 - 80mg of alcohol in their system.

The same Shane Ross who managed to vote against his own drink driving bill. OH God help us all. :mad:

christy02

Del2005 wrote:

Apart from the slightly higher speed it's not difficult to drive on a motorway, or dual carriageway, as opposed to other roads. Get up to speed before joining and keep left unless overtaking, how difficult is that to learn?

This is incorrect. There is more to it than this and if you drive in other countries they have a lot more manners.
You need to be more alert to other users. For example similar to point one, if you are overtaking someone and see them coming up to a slower moving vehicle, then you either need to slow and let them pull out or speed up to allow them move out without breaking.

It's a general etiquette and understanding of what position others are in.

Tigger

davycc wrote: »

Voted yes hopefully you get the new sub forum.

Never really try truck driving myself but I spent many happy hours helping the driver and running around the warehouse as a teen in the mid 90s I worked with vanfleet transport in Dublin, started off on 2 .50 punts an hour rising to an dizzying 3:50£ ,when I turned 18.

I worked in nightline transport hq in finglas recently as a customer service dude but I was happiest when I could escape the phone and go wrap pallets and sneak out on the multidrop runs in the city centre..

Also I have friends in target transport in santry who post the odd nostalgic pic of the fleet from the 80s I'll attach them here if I can find them.

I like old trucks and tractors busses since I was a young fella.


The office's in vanfleet had some lovely framed pictures of their brand new fleet of hinos parked on the old naas road if I recall back in the day too in the newest vtl livery probably early 90s

P
Lol

davycc

Tigger wrote: »

P
Lol

Wrong Fecking thread I better move it to the truck one lol and delete this one!

The Rape of Lucretia

CiniO wrote: »

Flashing light at someone to move is not aggressive driving, but absolute standard way of signalling between drivers.

Part of the problem is the pig headedness of the Rules of the Road themselves. They define how to drive correctly. And are written with the assumption that everyone will. They do not take account of the reality that many dont - and so give those of us who do, no instruction on how to correctly handle situations involving those who dont drive correctly. Leading to ambiguity, each to his own, confusion, conflict. And more dangerous roads.
Mr Ross. Are you going to do something about that ?

Irish Steve

Changing the driving test might help, changing the driving instructors that are preparing people for the test would be a lot better.

I regularly see instructors on the motorway (M2) en route from one student to the next, and I am regularly underwhelmed by their lack of signals, lane discipline, speed limit observation and general poor standard of driving.

The classic was a few years ago now, I did a trial lesson for a C licence with an instructor, and after a questionable session out round some of the lanes of Meath, we were heading back into the school, and I was told to take the next left. No problem, until I got a chewing out from the instructor, "What are you slowing down for, the turning's not for another 300 Metres", to which my short and simple response was "I'm not slowing for the turning, I'm obeying the 30 limit sign that we've just passed". I didn't bother going back to them for the C licence lessons.

Zatoichi

Is it selfish to stay in the auxiliary lane of the M50 if you join and are taking the very next exit?

...while you drive past all the cars doing 90kph in the Driving lane.

2Mad2BeMad

Zatoichi wrote: »

Is it selfish to stay in the auxiliary lane of the M50 if you join and are taking the very next exit?

...while you drive past all the cars doing 90kph in the Driving lane.

nope

What I do hate is when I join from ballymount going northbound
getting up to speed to join onto the m50 when every other person joins the auxilary lane at 70-80kph to get off at the red cow right at the entry to the m50 from ballymount
It makes me break and unable to join at a decent speed.
Stupid drivers.

I wouldn't mind but that Auxiliary lane is like 2km long but they decide to join it right at the start where I am suppose to enter....

Henry Ford III

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/86203/police-stop-over-5000-drivers-lane-hogging-and-tailgating

If only it could happen here. Imagine having motorways without lane hoggers, and undertakers.

BillyBobBS

On the whole i find the standard of driving be it on motorways or urban roads to be superb in Ireland. Go to Italy, India or Poland if you want to see poor driver knowledge.

CiniO

BillyBobBS wrote: »

On the whole i find the standard of driving be it on motorways or urban roads to be superb in Ireland. Go to Italy, India or Poland if you want to see poor driver knowledge.

Funny enough, doing 500km in a day on Irish roads (mixture of city, rural road, motorway) I'm forced to take evasive action on average 10-20 times. Just simple stuff like braking when someone is changing lane without looking, or entering roundabout not giving way, pulling to the side for drivers driving in the middle of the road on narrow country roads, or cutting blind bends, etc..
In Poland after a week driving and doing 2000km recently, I didn't have to take evasive action even once.

Can't comment about India, as I've never been there, and I only drove small bit in Italy.

redcup342

BillyBobBS wrote: »

On the whole i find the standard of driving be it on motorways or urban roads to be superb in Ireland. Go to Italy, India or Poland if you want to see poor driver knowledge.

Have driven in Italy, Poland and Sri Lanka (Close enough to Indian)

Ireland is still the worst.