Pre-school for 1 or 2 years?School at 4 or 5?

toby2111

We just got a text from the pre-school that our son is going to in September, asking if he is going for 1 or 2 years. They said if it's for 2 years, it's recommended they go only 3 days a week. Our son is 3 in April so we're not sure whether to send him to school in Sept 2019, when he'll be 4 and 4 months or Sept 2020, when he'll be 5 and 4 months.......
What's people's opinions?

jlm29

My eldest has a November birthday, and went to preschool for one year, and started school at 4 yrs and 10 months. I know it’s not the same thing, those extra few months make it easier to decide. But one year of playschool was plenty for him. I think four years and 4 months is a bit young for school personally, but it really depends on your child.

drunkmonkey

jlm29 wrote: »

My eldest has a November birthday, and went to preschool for one year, and started school at 4 yrs and 10 months. I know it’s not the same thing, those extra few months make it easier to decide. But one year of playschool was plenty for him. I think four years and 4 months is a bit young for school personally, but it really depends on your child.

From reading up on it, it seems to make no difference by the time there 6 if they go at 4 or 5, or chap is the same an April birthday. I'm more concerned about him going to the toilet fully by himself, he's trying but he can make a mess, think i'm going to put him on a high fiber diet and make it easy for him, one of the requirements is he doesn't need any help in the toilet.

Dardania

Not to take from the importance of your son's personal development and happiness, however are there other factors which would influence the decision? The sooner your son is in school, the sooner you don't have to pay for creche?

toby2111

drunkmonkey wrote: »

From reading up on it, it seems to make no difference by the time there 6 if they go at 4 or 5.

But that's the thing, I did read up on it last night and most articles were advising to wait until 5. But I agree with your toilet training point. Other articles said to get advice from pre school.... But we have to tell them whether he's going for 1 or 2 years which makes that pointless. I suppose, every child is different. Some will thrive at 4,some will even struggle at 5. It's hard to know.
I'd just be afraid he would get bored of 2 years pre school.

Peatys

Two of the schools in our area have that the child had to be 4 by the previous November. So just watch out for that.. I'd never heard of it, but there you go.

drunkmonkey

All well and good but school finishes early so would need someone to pick him up every day and pay them, at the moment the pre school is in the creche so he just goes downstairs for the afternoon. Swings and roundabouts.

toby2111

Dardania wrote: »

Not to take from the importance of your son's personal development and happiness, however are there other factors which would influence the decision? The sooner your son is in school, the sooner you don't have to pay for creche?

He will qualify for the free pre school year, or 2, so we don't have to worry about that. Our childminder drops her charge by €20 a week when he goes to proper school.

drunkmonkey

We pay 215 a week for one in preschool in the creche and minding in the afternoon and another full time in the creche. That includes all meals etc. I think it's pretty good.

toby2111

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We pay 215 a week for one in preschool in the creche and minding in the afternoon and another full time in the creche. That includes all meals etc. I think it's pretty good.

That's excellent value.

Peatys

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We pay 215 a week for one in preschool in the creche and minding in the afternoon and another full time in the creche. That includes all meals etc. I think it's pretty good.

That's excellent, we paid more for one crèche place. Even at that, they were militant with the 7.30 to 6 times

Ms2011

My son has an April birthday & we did the 2 years of preschool, he started school this year at 5 years & 5 months.
I feel it was best for him & we'll do the same with our daughter who is also an April baby.

shesty

My June and April babies will both start at five.
I don't care if they are bored in playschool.It's about giving them the chance to get more socially and emotionally mature. And that extra year will give them the difference.As for creche/minder fees, well to be honest we signed up for those when we decided to have kids, but we know they won't last forever so they are not a deciding factor.

Also figure that with the introduction of two free years peschool, the majority of kids going into JI with them will have two years of preschool behind them and will be 5 or over, so they would be at a disadvantage to be at the tail end of the year (ie, turning five in April, it's actually not even a question for our June child).I'd rather they be a bit bored then spending their whole school career trying to keep up with older kids all around them.

Actually OP I just re-read your post amd I wanted to say I had the opposite experience.My eldest started pre-school this year and I wanted to start her on a 2/3 day week.The school told me to hang on and see, mostly they are well able for it and want to do a full week.They said they often feel left out if they only do a short week and everyone else is doing the full week.That's an odd thing for your school to say, who recommends it??Them?I wonder why?Seeing my little one bouncing out the door every morning and wanting to go back over the Christmas holidays, I can safely say they were right-she enjoys and actually needs the experiences she has at the school.Now that may just be her, but still if your child is entitled to three hours every day, thent it seems odd that the school would be saying that less is recommended even if it is over two years.A good pre-school won't let the two year length be an issue.

drunkmonkey

shesty wrote: »

I'd rather they be a bit bored then spending their whole school career trying to keep up with older kids all around them.

The research from other countries like Australia says that any disadvantage is gone by the time there 6.
Personally i'd rather they staid back in the first year of school rather than 2yrs in preschool. Our chap is there since he's 9mts I just feel it's time to move onto new experiences and he doesn't like going in anymore.

toby2111

shesty wrote: »

That's an odd thing for your school to say, who recommends it??Them?I wonder why

Yep, we got a text from the pre-school asking if he was going for 1 or 2 years. If it was 2 years, they recommended he go only for 3 days for the 2 years..... I imagine that's to stop him being bored and doing the same stuff but I'm only guessing. It's a very good pre school, our other lad went there.

shesty

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The research from other countries like Australia says that any disadvantage is gone by the time there 6.
Personally i'd rather they staid back in the first year of school rather than 2yrs in preschool. Our chap is there since he's 9mts I just feel it's time to move onto new experiences and he doesn't like going in anymore.

Any disadvantage of being too young is gone by 6, is it?Maybe for some kids, but I would dount that is for all.Most of what I've read suggests the older the better.

Depending on his birthday, I'd probably reduce his time there then, rather than send him early to school, but that's just my personal opinion.

Still seems a bit odd OP but I know the pre-schools are all set up differently so maybe that's just their setup.Ours has the two years in separate rooms, so different room, teachers, toys, activities for her second year.Seems to work well for us anyway.

Just re-reading the toilet training points...those are the kinds of reasons I would keep them back til they are five....able to manage their lunchboxes, open their bags, zip their coats, manage the toilet, listen to and carry out simple instructions, deal better with the social aspects of it....that sort of stuff.General social and emotional maturity.Teachers will say you can always pick out the younger ones in classes, especially in the younger classes.

jlm29

My understanding is that your child is either full time in the ecce scheme, or not in it- you can’t enrol them part time. So if your child is only attending 3 days a week, your pre-school still gets paid for 5?
I know people do enrol them and only send them part time, but that’s surely up for you to decide, not the school. Make up your own mind what you want to do, and what’s best for your child, and do that. You can tell a few white lies to the pre-school along the way, or just be non-committal.

coffeyt

My little boy turned 3 in August and I started him in September at preschool which he will attend for 2 years.
I felt also that he might get bored so started off at 2 days a week, had to up it to 3 in November and just upped it again to 4 days last week when he started back after Xmas.
It wasn't in my plan to do this as he was the youngest there and as I said I wanted to make sure he didn't get too bored but he kept looking to go the extra days so I went with what he wanted.
I understand where your preschool is coming from with the idea of 3 days but I wonder will the children be unhappy if they are missing out on days, especially if they know there is something special happening on a day they are not due to attend.

meeeeh

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The research from other countries like Australia says that any disadvantage is gone by the time there 6.
Personally i'd rather they staid back in the first year of school rather than 2yrs in preschool. Our chap is there since he's 9mts I just feel it's time to move onto new experiences and he doesn't like going in anymore.

And kids in Finland which has excellent school system start school at seven. I think a lot of research is stating that later is better. I presume this study disputes study you mentioned.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/school-start-age-2017-3

Icsics

My May baby started at 5. There is so much going on in school that we wanted her to be one of the oldest & not one of the youngest. Think about secondary too, better to have them that bit older

waterfaerie

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The research from other countries like Australia says that any disadvantage is gone by the time there 6.
Personally i'd rather they staid back in the first year of school rather than 2yrs in preschool. Our chap is there since he's 9mts I just feel it's time to move onto new experiences and he doesn't like going in anymore.

Do you have a link to that research? I've only ever read and experienced the opposite.

As a teacher, I think it's usually very easy to see the difference all the way up through primary school. Even if they catch up academically, which not all do, there are often social issues.

Staying back is not recommended anymore due to the emotional impact. Most schools wouldn't do it apart from in extreme cases. Why would you put your child in that situation? To save money?

Many schools have cut off points these days. A decent school won't take someone under 4 and a half. OP, you should check the policy of the school you are thinking of. If they don't have an official policy, talk to them and I can almost guarantee they'll recommend waiting.

drunkmonkey

I think the opposite as going to encourage him to do transaction year so think he'll be too old doing the leaving as he'll be 18 so legally allowed drink and probably do pot by then and also he'll be driving. Would rather him finish at 17 and not have those legal distractions.
Just thinking of my own school mates,.some are a year or two older and some younger, made no real difference in the end.

jlm29

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I think the opposite as going to encourage him to do transaction year so think he'll be too old doing the leaving as he'll be 18 so legally allowed drink and probably do pot by then and also he'll be driving. Would rather him finish at 17 and not have those legal distractions.
Just thinking of my own school mates,.some are a year or two older and some younger, made no real difference in the end.

If your child is going to be drinking and smoking hash in secondary school, he’s probably not going to be desperately worried about the legality of it. I was 18 and 9 months doing my leaving cert, and I didn’t find myself too distracted by getting sloshed and high on Saturday nights. I didn’t have any money coz I was in school. I could drive, but sure I didn’t have a car, so it wasn’t too much of a problem either.
17 is quite young for a child to be going off to college too if they don’t do TY.

threescompany

My kids were born in march & May. My eldest boy was born in March , started school at 4ys 6 months. The second ( a girl ) born in may, started 5years 5 months. No regrets on either as each child is so different. I knew my eldest was able for it. Hes a bright boy & flying in school. My girl would have struggled more if she’d gone at 4.

Follow your gut. It really depends on the child.

drunkmonkey

threescompany wrote: »

Follow your gut. It really depends on the child.

That's really it just going to go with the flow, go to the open day in the school, put him in for the trial few hours they do. Talk to the crèche, teachers etc. I just think he'll be happier learning more. He just seems a little bored in the crèche and doesn't want to go any more. He'll be there newly 4yrs 5 days a week before school starts, I think it's enough.
Bit of work to do with him to get him ready though I don't think he's there yet and most of it my fault. He's there mentally and emotionally though I feel.

sillysocks

I’ve a May baby, he’ll be 5 this may and will start school in Sept. He did the first year of Montessori part time(3 days) and this year is full time. It has worked out fine for him. We always planned on him starting school at 5 and by last Sept knew that was the right decision as he definitely wouldn’t have been able for school then.
I know when we were young a lot of kids started school at 4, and even 3, but on my experience of my 6 year old most kids in her class were older than 4.5 starting in Juniors.

Neyite

I know a lot of primary school teachers and lots of mammys of primary school children and all of them said especially for boys, they recommend starting at 5 rather than 4. I was worried that he would be bored in crèche for the year but he wasn't and the extra year really stood to him. He was excited to start school, and ready for it both emotionally and intellectually. He took to it like a duck to water. Plus he'll be turning 18 sitting the LC rather than 17 and that year of emotional development and growth is a lot at that age. Being 18 going to college sits easier with me than 17!

Most of his classmates are his age - there's one lad though that by the sounds of it is the year younger, and maybe a bit shyer than the others or not settling in as well because the teacher has implemented a buddy system for the boy on rotation.

drunkmonkey

What skills do you think a child needs to start school, we'll take age out of the equation.

Personally I don't really know, go to toilet by themselves, change clothes, count to 50. Kick and catch a ball, Sing a song.

shesty

Go to the toilet by themselves, be able to sit and eat lunch for a short period, possibly put their coat on and take it off, open and close their bag, be able to cope when they are told no they cannot do something (or not completely lose the plot when they don't "win" things all the time or someone else gets something they want-although I know that's a work in progress), follow simple instructions and know how to wait (or at least be kind of used to the concept!) And generally be able to interact with others without melting down/losing the plot every few minutes (again, I know that's a work in progress).
They will learn to catch/kick balls in there, they will learn to count in ther, they will to learn to sing in there.The academic stuff would kind of be the least ofy worries to be honest alyhough I think it's a developmental thing that they know some colours and can count a bit etc before they go in.

RentDayBlues

Depending on your local national school you may want to factor their enrollment policy into your decision making!

My youngest turns 4 in a few weeks and we were hoping to send her this September but she hasn’t gotten a place, all thanks to the ECCE extra year, she’s in the bumper year. So now she’s facing a third full time year in Montessori! The school haven’t been able to offer any places to children born after November 2013!

Her Montessori don’t see it as a problem as they are trained to teach up to age 12 and will just continue.

Basically, we never considered her not getting a place and it caused a lot of upset, now, it’s not the end of the world. She’ll be one of the oldest in her class in September 2019 and by the looks of the waiting list, most of the class will be the same age

Chocolate fiend

I am in Australia and most children are closer to 6 starting now, my own daughter is starting in 2 weeks time and will turn 6 3 weeks later and she won't be the oldest in her class. Survive or thrive is what the preschools talk about here, so which do you want. A decent preschool won't see a child bored, and also it is quite hard for a 4 or 5 year old to actually be bored when there are toys and games and books and friends.
I would say send him when he is 5.

ForestFire

toby2111 wrote: »

Yep, we got a text from the pre-school asking if he was going for 1 or 2 years. If it was 2 years, they recommended he go only for 3 days for the 2 years..... I imagine that's to stop him being bored and doing the same stuff but I'm only guessing. It's a very good pre school, our other lad went there.

I am also wondering why the creche is suggesting this, You get 5 free mornings a week on the free preschool.

For this the creche gets a fixed payment from the Gov.

I wonder are they trying to sell the other 2 slots at a higher price?

I can't see how 5 days a week would be a disadvantage just because he is going to be there again next year?

sillysocks

ForestFire wrote: »

I am also wondering why the creche is suggesting this, You get 5 free mornings a week on the free preschool.

For this the creche gets a fixed payment from the Gov.

I wonder are they trying to sell the other 2 slots at a higher price?

I can't see how 5 days a week would be a disadvantage just because he is going to be there again next year?

As far as I know there was a change to the scheme this year or maybe last year whereby the preschool/Montessori have to declare how many days/hours the child attends. So I don’t think the rate is still a flat rate regardless of attendance. I know when there was a chance I was going to have to drop a day or two per week (due to logistics!) the Montessori said they would have to reapply with the new number of days to the scheme.

For me the original reason behind only doing the first year part time and then the year full time was that I thought it was a lot for a child to go straight from no formal school straight to five days a week when they didn’t have to. It probably depends on the environment etc too. My kids went to a Montessori which was laid out very much like a classroom and was quite ‘formal’ and structured rather than a lot of free play if that makes sense.

uck51js9zml2yt

my 2 did the two years of montessori and have come on in leaps and bounds
Both did 5 days without issue. The eldest started at 3 and my youngest at 2 years 9 months.

shesty

I agree actually, and that was my worry too, that a full week straight off was a lot.But the preschool is saying to the OP if you do two years, do three day weeks, but (I assume) one year would be a five day week.Which, the more I think of it, the odder it seems because kids are entitled to three hours five days a week, whether they take it or not, and if it's boredom that's the reason-well, surely it's up to the school to make sure that's not an issue.If every other place can manage a full week for two years, why can't that place, if there are parents who might want to avail of it (and are entitled to?)

sillysocks

shesty wrote: »

I agree actually, and that was my worry too, that a full week straight off was a lot.But the preschool is saying to the OP if you do two years, do three day weeks, but (I assume) one year would be a five day week.Which, the more I think of it, the odder it seems because kids are entitled to three hours five days a week, whether they take it or not, and if it's boredom that's the reason-well, surely it's up to the school to make sure that's not an issue.If every other place can manage a full week for two years, why can't that place, if there are parents who might want to avail of it (and are entitled to?)

Yep agreed! I think for people who do decide to send children for 5 days for both years the preschool should definitely have a programme that doesn’t repeat too much and keeps them engaged.
Actually I should have added above we also choose the first year part time on my eldest as there was no ECCE then so decided to only pay for the 3 days a week. That worked out well for us and her so just stuck with that for the next child even though Ecce had come in by then.

uck51js9zml2yt

sillysocks wrote: »

Yep agreed! I think for people who do decide to send children for 5 days for both years the preschool should definitely have a programme that doesn’t repeat too much and keeps them engaged.
Actually I should have added above we also choose the first year part time on my eldest as there was no ECCE then so decided to only pay for the 3 days a week. That worked out well for us and her so just stuck with that for the next child even though Ecce had come in by then.

the montessori we went to has a 2 year program building on the first year. the result is that stuffs not repeated, just reinforced with a variation on the curriculum and those who only do one year dont miss out.

Moonbeam

Mine all did 2 years and 5 day weeks.
4 years and 4 months is very young to send them,they will be much younger then the other kids at 5 years and 4 months they will be in or around the same age as the other kids.

toby2111

Thanks for replies everyone. I was leaning towards starting him and 4 years and 4 months but am swaying more towards 5 and 4 months now. I still don't know why pre school are suggesting only 3 days for first year but I'll contact them for a chat this week. Our eldest went there and started junior infants at 4 years 9 months but they said he was ready for it. So we'll be guided by them again but I think I'd like him to go 5 days though maybe not until October.