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Pros and cons of crypto

  • 18-01-2018 10:36am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭ Blacktie.


    Alright folks let's keep the pyramid scheme and valuation talk and discussions to this thread. The alt coin thread has gone seriously off topic.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 921 ✭✭✭ benjamin d


    Pro: crazy, wild profits to be made.

    Con: crazy, wild losses to be made.


  • Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭ h0neybadger


    Pro: I quit my job :)

    Con: I QUIT MY JOB :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭ DVD-Lots


    Pros: I'm getting a green Lambo

    Cons: I'm not really getting a green Lambo, am I?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,001 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    DVD-Lots wrote: »
    Pros: I'm getting a green Lambo

    Cons: I'm not really getting a green Lambo, am I?

    You may have to settle for a white one


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,424 ✭✭✭ Blackjack


    This is something that I have developed a passing interest in of late, primarily as a result of all the chatter about the huge rise in the values of crypto currency, with bitcoin being the main one mentioned.

    I’ll admit I know little about Blockchain and crypto currencies, and could care less at the moment. I am interested in the speculation that’s going on and some of the background to it all.

    I am aware that there is a bit of a clamp down on some exchanges and trading activities in South Korea and China. This sort of attention is something that I believe will cause a lot of volatility in the future. I’m aware Winkelvoss twins and others have been punting an ETF structure that invests in these currencies.

    I have read a number of threads on the topic here and elsewhere, and one of the things that strikes me as a cause for concern is the entirely speculative nature of the pricing and value of these instruments.

    I’ve seen posts such as “I believe it will go up to 24k in six months” with little evidence to back this up. Being entirely honest, and I realise this may rankle some of those who have invested both financially and emotionally in cryptos, but this has been compared (rightfully based on what I know about it) of the whole beanie baby craze on the nineties.

    I do think there is money to made trading cryptos, sell the highs and buy the lows etc, but you could just as easily lose your shirt doing that as anything else.

    What I don’t get is what intrinsic value these coins have - what, other than selling it to someone else, an I use if for?.
    There are also a multitude of these coins and anyone who understands the tech can potentially launch a new coin.

    I understand the blockchain technology is likely to be expanded further in the future and we are likely to see that become a lot more mainstream. I don’t believe these coins or tokens have any use or intrinsic value realistically.
    Right now, it’s all speculative and supply and demand, but there is nothing other than the will of someone to pay at a certain price for all of these coins to fall to zero overnight.

    Overall the pros are:
    Something you can have a bit of a punt on and maybe end up owning a lambo from. A bit of craic maybe.
    Interesting technology
    Could be used as a means of exchange (if the wild swings in price were to cease)

    Cons:
    No intrinsic value
    Difficulties in extracting your crypto into cold hard cash
    Taxable considerations
    Speculative mania at present.
    Hugely volatile in price
    Very few merchants using it as means of payment.

    That’s kinda where I’m at on this. I’m not having a dig at those that believe, I do think that the technology behind all this is quite fascinating and even the mania that’s going with the whole crypto currency thing is quite remarkable. It does bring to mind the various speculative bubbles that have happened in the past and given these tokens, to my knowledge, don’t actually do anything, I have to be sceptical as to their long term viability or value.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭ asteroids over berlin


    Blackjack wrote: »
    This is something that I have developed a passing interest in of late, primarily as a result of all the chatter about the huge rise in the values of crypto currency, with bitcoin being the main one mentioned.

    I’ll admit I know little about Blockchain and crypto currencies, and could care less at the moment. I am interested in the speculation that’s going on and some of the background to it all.

    I am aware that there is a bit of a clamp down on some exchanges and trading activities in South Korea and China. This sort of attention is something that I believe will cause a lot of volatility in the future. I’m aware Winkelvoss twins and others have been punting an ETF structure that invests in these currencies.

    I have read a number of threads on the topic here and elsewhere, and one of the things that strikes me as a cause for concern is the entirely speculative nature of the pricing and value of these instruments.

    I’ve seen posts such as “I believe it will go up to 24k in six months” with little evidence to back this up. Being entirely honest, and I realise this may rankle some of those who have invested both financially and emotionally in cryptos, but this has been compared (rightfully based on what I know about it) of the whole beanie baby craze on the nineties.

    I do think there is money to made trading cryptos, sell the highs and buy the lows etc, but you could just as easily lose your shirt doing that as anything else.

    What I don’t get is what intrinsic value these coins have - what, other than selling it to someone else, an I use if for?.
    There are also a multitude of these coins and anyone who understands the tech can potentially launch a new coin.

    I understand the blockchain technology is likely to be expanded further in the future and we are likely to see that become a lot more mainstream. I don’t believe these coins or tokens have any use or intrinsic value realistically.
    Right now, it’s all speculative and supply and demand, but there is nothing other than the will of someone to pay at a certain price for all of these coins to fall to zero overnight.

    Overall the pros are:
    Something you can have a bit of a punt on and maybe end up owning a lambo from. A bit of craic maybe.
    Interesting technology
    Could be used as a means of exchange (if the wild swings in price were to cease)

    Cons:
    No intrinsic value
    Difficulties in extracting your crypto into cold hard cash
    Taxable considerations
    Speculative mania at present.
    Hugely volatile in price
    Very few merchants using it as means of payment.

    That’s kinda where I’m at on this. I’m not having a dig at those that believe, I do think that the technology behind all this is quite fascinating and even the mania that’s going with the whole crypto currency thing is quite remarkable. It does bring to mind the various speculative bubbles that have happened in the past and given these tokens, to my knowledge, don’t actually do anything, I have to be sceptical as to their long term viability or value.

    I don't understand/comprehend many of your (and many other peoples) points, more so, how you get to them.
    All these coins are ongoing projects - the value is investing in this project of choice as you believe in it. One day many of the projects will materialise into healthy businesses/corporations, many will fail. With that, your investment will grow/fall. This is the beginning. 2018/2019 will be huge for some of these projects int erms of the beginning of adoption, arguably it is starting to happen now for some of them. It's up to YOU to decide on which project to invest in. Your shiny smart phone was once a project, your TV, car, shoes etc etc. Give it time, research and invest in good projects. The only other option is to not research and take a punt aka gamble - this may or may not pay off

    In essence, i see only upsides to crypto BAR AN ARCHAIC TAXATION SYSTEM.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,867 ✭✭✭✭ mickdw


    Blackjack wrote: »
    This is something that I have developed a passing interest in of late, primarily as a result of all the chatter about the huge rise in the values of crypto currency, with bitcoin being the main one mentioned.

    I’ll admit I know little about Blockchain and crypto currencies, and could care less at the moment. I am interested in the speculation that’s going on and some of the background to it all.

    I am aware that there is a bit of a clamp down on some exchanges and trading activities in South Korea and China. This sort of attention is something that I believe will cause a lot of volatility in the future. I’m aware Winkelvoss twins and others have been punting an ETF structure that invests in these currencies.

    I have read a number of threads on the topic here and elsewhere, and one of the things that strikes me as a cause for concern is the entirely speculative nature of the pricing and value of these instruments.

    I’ve seen posts such as “I believe it will go up to 24k in six months” with little evidence to back this up. Being entirely honest, and I realise this may rankle some of those who have invested both financially and emotionally in cryptos, but this has been compared (rightfully based on what I know about it) of the whole beanie baby craze on the nineties.

    I do think there is money to made trading cryptos, sell the highs and buy the lows etc, but you could just as easily lose your shirt doing that as anything else.

    What I don’t get is what intrinsic value these coins have - what, other than selling it to someone else, an I use if for?.
    There are also a multitude of these coins and anyone who understands the tech can potentially launch a new coin.

    I understand the blockchain technology is likely to be expanded further in the future and we are likely to see that become a lot more mainstream. I don’t believe these coins or tokens have any use or intrinsic value realistically.
    Right now, it’s all speculative and supply and demand, but there is nothing other than the will of someone to pay at a certain price for all of these coins to fall to zero overnight.

    Overall the pros are:
    Something you can have a bit of a punt on and maybe end up owning a lambo from. A bit of craic maybe.
    Interesting technology
    Could be used as a means of exchange (if the wild swings in price were to cease)

    Cons:
    No intrinsic value
    Difficulties in extracting your crypto into cold hard cash
    Taxable considerations
    Speculative mania at present.
    Hugely volatile in price
    Very few merchants using it as means of payment.

    That’s kinda where I’m at on this. I’m not having a dig at those that believe, I do think that the technology behind all this is quite fascinating and even the mania that’s going with the whole crypto currency thing is quite remarkable. It does bring to mind the various speculative bubbles that have happened in the past and given these tokens, to my knowledge, don’t actually do anything, I have to be sceptical as to their long term viability or value.

    Some form of crypto will rise to the top and be used widely in banking etc however it very likely does not exist yet.
    Im prepared to take a small gamble myself and see what happens. There is money to be made and lost ..... timing is everything but id be of the opinion that its along way from a crypto being widely adopted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 921 ✭✭✭ benjamin d


    Pro (sort of): after a "sky is falling, world is ending" crash, my investments are now back were they were LAST WEEK, i.e 4 to 7 days ago.

    Im sure the Brendan Walshes of this forum have smugly exited all threads safe in the knowledge that we're all throwing ourselves off a building after losing our shirts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,424 ✭✭✭ Blackjack


    I don't understand/comprehend many of your (and many other peoples) points, more so, how you get to them.
    All these coins are ongoing projects - the value is investing in this project of choice as you believe in it. One day many of the projects will materialise into healthy businesses/corporations, many will fail. With that, your investment will grow/fall. This is the beginning. 2018/2019 will be huge for some of these projects int erms of the beginning of adoption, arguably it is starting to happen now for some of them. It's up to YOU to decide on which project to invest in. Your shiny smart phone was once a project, your TV, car, shoes etc etc. Give it time, research and invest in good projects. The only other option is to not research and take a punt aka gamble - this may or may not pay off

    In essence, i see only upsides to crypto BAR AN ARCHAIC TAXATION SYSTEM.

    Are any of these coins representative of a share value in the company or the technology?. My understanding is that they are not, blockchain as a technology is entirely separate from any coin that may be issued using the technology.
    So if the companies behind the coins at some point make it big, what is the coin they issued going to be worth?. My understand is that they are more like trinkets issued, once the coin miner or issuer has issued them and sold them on, they have no further recourse to anyone that holds them after that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    A blockchain ETF started trading yesterday glad to see Hive in there among IBM, Intel and Nvidia, Hive is my crypto play with their virgin coins, If Abagail Jonson thinks it's worth a punt I'm all in https://amplifyetfs.com/blok-amplify-transformational-data-sharing-etf
    Sorry I didn't load up more on yesterday dip but the money didn't hit my degiro account in time but it's there now. I think there's an easy 25% to be made here before march but ill be holding a lot longer than that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭ grindle


    Blackjack wrote: »
    Are any of these coins representative of a share value in the company or the technology?. My understanding is that they are not, blockchain as a technology is entirely separate from any coin that may be issued using the technology.
    So if the companies behind the coins at some point make it big, what is the coin they issued going to be worth?. My understand is that they are more like trinkets issued, once the coin miner or issuer has issued them and sold them on, they have no further recourse to anyone that holds them after that.
    Some coins share dividends from fees, most are trying to sidestep the SEC so essentially you have a magic bean that is necessary in order to use the platform. If the platform gets widely used there's a need for liquidity yet all or most of the tokens are held by people who want to profit so they won't be selling low - the price works it's way up if the utility of the coin or token with regard to the business' platform is deemed a necessity by the prospective buyer.

    It's simple supply and demand & yes people who buy the top in order to speculate on a further rise get burned if they sell lower than their buy-in, but it's possibly the easiest form of crowdfunding and ongoing price-discovery that's yet been established.

    Nay-sayers don't seem to understand supply-demand dynamics where the token's value is inherently linked to the platform's perceived value.
    Granted it's massively speculative right now, but so was buying Amazon shares two years ago, or FB shares before they started posting profits. People were guffawing at people buying shares in a company that doesn't have any profits to share - more fool them.
    If you don't believe a project's token will retain or grow in value due to adoption and you've researched the project properly, don't buy it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭ sameoldname


    So as someone who has no need to purchase drugs online, launder money, evade taxes or wants to invest in them... what benefits do cryptocurrencies offer me?

    Say for example they reach widespread adoption and as part of that they have the same protections and restrictions that regular currencies have. What are the advantages over cash and current electronic transfer methods?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭ Matt Simis


    So as someone who has no need to purchase drugs online, launder money, evade taxes or wants to invest in them... what benefits do cryptocurrencies offer me?

    Say for example they reach widespread adoption and as part of that they have the same protections and restrictions that regular currencies have. What are the advantages over cash and current electronic transfer methods?

    Various based on the token,currency,asset you are talking about.. but a very real problem is paying for cars (or other large $$ things) where neither party trusts one another and/or there is a requirement for realtime payment and/or across borders or currencies.

    The bank network, despite knowing this problem for 50years, completely and utterly sucks at this problem.

    Bank Drafts- not accepted across many borders, can be faked, banks cannot guarantee their legitimacy, even the issuing bank (and arent free).
    Cheques - even worse than drafts and even more expensive to operate (for banks and business).
    Huge wads of cash - attracts tons of other risks (crime, loss, natural disaster) as well as difficult to source over say 10k.
    Bank Transfers - ok speed though far from realtime within the SEPA network. Cross borders to the UK not fast. Sometimes gets held up for various reasons. And attract random fees (currency, cross border)


    Even with something as technologically "old" as Bitcoin (vs say Raiblocks which blow it out of the water for this purpose) I can fly to the UK (or Australia), inspect a car, make an offer, send payment and drive away in minutes.

    You can scale this problem and solution up and down to various other things than high value items, but this real world, totally normal problem epitomises where right now (and for years) digital currencies excel.

    Wouldnt it be nice for instance for Adverts to implement Raiblocks as the payment solution, the buyer would indicate all is good with purchase (either pre or post collection of goods), instant, FREE payment to the seller and funds are known good (unlike say PayPal which is large Credit based and can be reversed and quite expensive)?

    PS: My examples are currency and payments based but bear in mind this industry offers a lot more outside this core finance staples.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,867 ✭✭✭✭ mickdw


    Matt Simis wrote: »
    Various based on the token,currency,asset you are talking about.. but a very real problem is paying for cars (or other large $$ things) where neither party trusts one another and/or there is a requirement for realtime payment and/or across borders or currencies.

    The bank network, despite knowing this problem for 50years, completely and utterly sucks at this problem.

    Bank Drafts- not accepted across many borders, can be faked, banks cannot guarantee their legitimacy, even the issuing bank (and arent free).
    Cheques - even worse than drafts and even more expensive to operate (for banks and business).
    Huge wads of cash - attracts tons of other risks (crime, loss, natural disaster) as well as difficult to source over say 10k.
    Bank Transfers - ok speed though far from realtime within the SEPA network. Cross borders to the UK not fast. Sometimes gets held up for various reasons. And attract random fees (currency, cross border)


    Even with something as technologically "old" as Bitcoin (vs say Raiblocks which blow it out of the water for this purpose) I can fly to the UK (or Australia), inspect a car, make an offer, send payment and drive away in minutes.

    You can scale this problem and solution up and down to various other things than high value items, but this real world, totally normal problem epitomises where right now (and for years) digital currencies excel.

    Wouldnt it be nice for instance for Adverts to implement Raiblocks as the payment solution, the buyer would indicate all is good with purchase (either pre or post collection of goods), instant, FREE payment to the seller and funds are known good (unlike say PayPal which is large Credit based and can be reversed and quite expensive)?

    Aee you saying you would currently pay for a car in raiblocks?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭ CQD


    It's all bubble psychology at the minute though. Yeah, you could possibly make money trading them or if you were in it a couple of years ago you're probably laughing, but all this "Oh, I read the white paper..I believe in the technology.." is dubious. If the technology is the future, it isn't gonna be any of them around now. There will be summits, and standards. Anyway, yeah, blockchain will be going to the shop for you..and Lamborghinis..and the moon..

    Did you ever think it would get to the stage where you were supporting actual nazis?..



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,259 ✭✭✭✭ jester77


    mickdw wrote: »
    Aee you saying you would currently pay for a car in raiblocks?

    Saw a guy yesterday selling his house with raiblocks as a method of payment: https://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-yarrabilba-126889302


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    mickdw wrote: »
    Aee you saying you would currently pay for a car in raiblocks?
    I don't think that was expressly said... but if the seller is happy to get paid in crypto, why not?

    Might be issues where warranties/guarantees are involved and proof of purchase is important. But random purchases on Adverts are a great example.

    That said, aren't there loads of apps these days where people can sign up for and send money across straight away? Fire, Circle, etc. For a fee, I guess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭ Matt Simis


    mickdw wrote: »
    Aee you saying you would currently pay for a car in raiblocks?

    Maybe not today, but soon (Raiblocks is super fresh still, lets finish off wallet and withdrawal and scaling niggles first). I've already paid for large things in Crypto, no problem.

    I wouldnt have a problem using Raiblocks (XRB) for <$1000 transactions tho, infact would really like to.
    Dades wrote: »
    That said, aren't there loads of apps these days where people can sign up for and send money across straight away? Fire, Circle, etc. For a fee, I guess.
    Kinda but not really. I can tell you from working in Marketplaces that the problem with seemingly instant payments is.. they are not instant payment. They are the promise to pay, delivered instantly. Look at Venmo in the US.. instant payment till the buyer calls up the Credit Card company and just gets the charge reversed. Venmo says you are SOL as its not a payment product, its a money transfer service for friends. Thats one problem, there other (of many with card payments) is that what a tech person would call a "password" is printed (as the card number) on a piece of plastic and put insecurely in your wallet!

    Crypto currencies are very different in that they are what's called known good funds.

    Handing you $1000 in cash (that you confirm is real) is a known good funds payment. Sending you $1000 over PayPal, Circle etc is not. Also the cash costs nothing to send or receive (aside from inconvenience) while the rest cost upto 3.2%. Think of all the barbers and chippers not taking Card payments, that % is an absolute killer. Using Raiblocks as the example again, when they open their Raiblocks wallet it acts a node, their "reward" for helping the network is fee-free known good payments, instantly. This is absolutely game changing for commerce (e or bricks and mortar).

    "Cash discount" = "crypto discount".


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    So as someone who has no need to purchase drugs online, launder money, evade taxes or wants to invest in them... what benefits do cryptocurrencies offer me?

    Say for example they reach widespread adoption and as part of that they have the same protections and restrictions that regular currencies have. What are the advantages over cash and current electronic transfer methods?

    Matt explained it well but you need to read up on the difference between blockchain and bitcoin it'll give you a better understanding of where all this is going and its uses.
    If you want to invest in Blockchain it's companies like IBM you should be looking at. If you want to invest in cryptos that's very speculative with no real catalyst only the price keeps rising because the price keeps rising. Blockchain doesn't need bitcoin but bitcoin needs blockchain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,223 pro_gnostic_8


    PRO's
    1) Gives the ordinary man in the street the ability to be his own bank. A permissionless and borderless protocol -- permissionless because you don't need permission from your bank to spend your own money as you wish, and borderless because you can bring an unlimited sum with you anywhere in the world.
    2) Deflationary. As against the con-job of fiat with it's built in inflation and quantitative easing which is frankly a theft by stealth of the wealth of working people.
    3) Freedom. Freedom from the all-pervasive domination of globalist banks and central banks which want to control every aspect of your economic life. And freedom from the rapacious governments which expropriate your wealth in the form of unreasonable taxation.
    A new monetary system for a new age. What's not to like.

    CON's
    At present, the inability of both Bitcoin and Ethereum to scale in response to high demand usage. (I'm ignoring the claims of instantaneous and no-fee transactions of various sh1tcoins since they haven't been stress-tested in a high throughput scenario).

    Overall, I'm positive about the future of crypto.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭ Drumorig


    I don't understand/comprehend many of your (and many other peoples) points, more so, how you get to them.
    All these coins are ongoing projects - the value is investing in this project of choice as you believe in it. One day many of the projects will materialise into healthy businesses/corporations, many will fail. With that, your investment will grow/fall. This is the beginning. 2018/2019 will be huge for some of these projects int erms of the beginning of adoption, arguably it is starting to happen now for some of them. It's up to YOU to decide on which project to invest in. Your shiny smart phone was once a project, your TV, car, shoes etc etc. Give it time, research and invest in good projects. The only other option is to not research and take a punt aka gamble - this may or may not pay off
    ye, what this lad said.

    Invest in something doing something useful, like using ethereum smart contracts to trace food for example among other things. There is multiple ways this technology can be used aside from buying things, it's not a currency, it's an idea that will be mainstream eventually. (Think OS, wallet combined etc).

    These clowns comparing it to the dot com bubble back in 2000 haven't a clue, only big investors got burned there and the programmers working for stock. This is 100X bigger than that bubble.

    And maybe it is a bubble, I reckon it's only getting started though. :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭ h0neybadger



    CON's
    At present, the inability of both Bitcoin and Ethereum to scale in response to high demand usage. (I'm ignoring the claims of instantaneous and no-fee transactions of various sh1tcoins since they haven't been stress-tested in a high throughput scenario).

    Overall, I'm positive about the future of crypto.

    I like this comment a lot.

    Yes, there are many coins that promise this, that, the sun, moon and stars. But they are in fact “****coins” until they have a working platform and as Pro_gnastic put it, are stress tested in a high throughout scenario.

    For example, I love Raiblocks. I believe it will be a game changer. It’s what Bitcoin should have been, when used as a payment service. But it needs to be tested in a large scale. Only then will it be upgraded away from a ****coin status.
    I’m highly invested in it, and I have a very biased opinion. But I’m not blind to the requirements and proof that it needs.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,648 Autochange


    Pro : I turned 10k into 50k in 3 months

    Con: I had to pay tax


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,223 pro_gnostic_8


    Autochange wrote: »
    Pro : I turned 10k into 50k in 3 months

    Con: I had to pay tax
    You "HAD" to pay tax ???? :D

    Well done on the big gainz, tho'. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,424 ✭✭✭ Blackjack


    grindle wrote: »
    Some coins share dividends from fees, most are trying to sidestep the SEC so essentially you have a magic bean that is necessary in order to use the platform. If the platform gets widely used there's a need for liquidity yet all or most of the tokens are held by people who want to profit so they won't be selling low - the price works it's way up if the utility of the coin or token with regard to the business' platform is deemed a necessity by the prospective buyer.

    It's simple supply and demand & yes people who buy the top in order to speculate on a further rise get burned if they sell lower than their buy-in, but it's possibly the easiest form of crowdfunding and ongoing price-discovery that's yet been established.

    Nay-sayers don't seem to understand supply-demand dynamics where the token's value is inherently linked to the platform's perceived value.
    Granted it's massively speculative right now, but so was buying Amazon shares two years ago, or FB shares before they started posting profits. People were guffawing at people buying shares in a company that doesn't have any profits to share - more fool them.
    If you don't believe a project's token will retain or grow in value due to adoption and you've researched the project properly, don't buy it.

    What are the best sources of information as to the attributes of the various coins e.g is there any site that details an equivalent P/E ratio to the coins that pay dividends or that details, perhaps briefly, how each one works?.

    As regards people guffawing at those that invested in Amazon or Facebook, I’m not sure I heard anyone guffawing, but I wasn’t listening out for that either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,317 ✭✭✭ Dr Bolouswki


    PROs:
    Distributed cloud is the next step for large scale applications. Just as we went from monolithic computers, to clustered compute, to spread clustered, to cloud and all it's derivatives, logical progression brings us to distributed ledger systems (i.e. blockchain). Many of the benefits that occured in the previous methods for IT infrastructure (hard or soft), apply also to distributed systems. Risk mitigation is enhanced, economies of scale are easier to achieve, performance enhancement without the need for infrastructure investment, better access to target demographics, more direct go to market models, reduction of intermediaries etc. Blockchain based ecosystems, where the users collectively provide the resources to run the system, are an incredibly efficient way of utilising resources. Coins that leverage these things are the ones to look at.

    CONs:

    Many of the coins out there are barely more than micro-shares for companies shilling a "coin" based project that does not gain any benefit over traditional current deployments. Lack of regulation allows anyone with slick marketing to get rich on an ICO and then never technically have to do anything afterwards. A nice web page, a whitepaper of some description without too many spelling errors and some clever looking directors/advisors does the trick.

    It's hard to seperate the wheat from the chaff - very time consuming. My personal opinion is that platform based currencies like Eth and Neo are the way to go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭ grindle


    Blackjack wrote: »
    What are the best sources of information as to the attributes of the various coins e.g is there any site that details an equivalent P/E ratio to the coins that pay dividends or that details, perhaps briefly, how each one works?
    No site that goes into detail that well, reading specific whitepapers is the main way to find out how a team hopes the token economics work out. As I've said, most want to sidestep the SEC's regulatory oversight (which applies where dividends are concerned) so most are dependant on adoption and/or a combination of market-baiting mechanisms.

    Something like Rialto's XRL token is using their ICO funds as liquidity for an arbitrage hedge fund - they take snapshots of the token holders at certain times and 100% of the excess above the fund's starting value gets distributed to token holders - their own method of profit-taking for themselves is enticing large investors to use them as a hedge for the market as a whole, so that profit will be private, plus if they get to a large enough level the entire market will benefit from having markets evened out - market making is standard between exchanges of any kind but apparently some don't know that arbitrage is common and they mistake it for a pyramid scheme despite it fulfilling none of the requirements of a pyramid scheme.
    Very good chance XRL won't be able to become a dominator in the scene as wall street funds have entered the market aiming to do much the same thing minus the user rewards and with funds of $500m+

    One fantastic example of supply->demand economics in a coin is Binance's BNB coin.
    If you use their exchange (which you probably should as it's easily the best exchange right now), you pay half the trading fees if you buy their coin and pay your fees with it - this causes a steady stream of market buys, more buy pressure than sell pressure.
    For community votes to get new coins on Binance you have to spend BNB. Steady stream of market buys.
    The only coin you'll be able to clean your crypto-crumbs (tiny bits left behind from trades) up with is BNB. Steady stream of market buys.
    BNB used in all of these instances is burned quarterly reducing supply of BNB in a market where demand is high which drives price up.
    Blackjack wrote: »
    As regards people guffawing at those that invested in Amazon or Facebook, I’m not sure I heard anyone guffawing, but I wasn’t listening out for that either.
    Oh yeah, TechCrunch (which was as bullish as you'd get in the speculative Silicon Valley market) back in the day was a wall of articles wondering when the bubbles would burst as Amazon was running at a loss consistently and FB hadn't worked it's tendrils into every facet of our lives yet, they took a long time figuring out how to monetise. There was just an assuredness from whomever was buying while they were losing money that these would be the businesses to break through.
    I remember seeing FB's valuation thinking people had lost their senses and I'm bullish on tech. Made no sense to me that the place where you post your scrapbook & diary entries would become so valuable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,909 ✭✭✭ sReq | uTeK


    My take on Crypto:

    You're buying into technology disrupters to the current financial and distribution models that we see in every day life, not only that you're cutting out the middleman and adding a level of transparency (funds wise) that has never be seen before. Of course when you've been using something for so long you're going to be somewhat hesitant to the new kid on the block.

    The first blockchain was conceptualised by an anonymous person or group known as Satoshi Nakamoto in 2008. It came to prominence and year later with Bitcoin, the blockchain being the underlying technology running the decentralised public ledger.

    It gave Bitcoin first mover advantage and a brand that is recognised by a vast majority today.

    Fast forward to 2018. I look at blockchain more so like mobile technology. However I look at new coins such as Ethereum and NEO as the operating systems that gives mobile technology the extra smarts such as Android and iOS. And allows further applications like smart contracts to be run on a more efficient (transactions times and fees) software orientated network.

    I know its a simplistic way of looking at it but it makes it easier to conceptualise for "ME" this way.

    It's also why I think we will be very very grateful for what Bitcoin innovated and look back on it with fond memories (Nokia) but other coins will overtake it in the long run.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,388 ✭✭✭ Nermal


    Cons:
    Technical "analysis"
    "Partnerships"
    "Roadmaps"
    John McAfee


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,112 ✭✭✭✭ Dohnjoe


    Apart from black market use, no one with a brain is currently buying items with crypto at the moment. Aside from the novelty, it's still too impractical, too risky and too volatile

    For practical and commonsense reasons there isn't a chance any sane government anywhere will fully accept a decentralised speculative assets as a national tender. Especially value is derived on an easily manipulated Wall-Street-on-steroids no-rules secondary market

    Also if my stocks are going through the roof, it would be idiotic to "spend" them on anything. Which is why we hold them or trade them.

    The technology being pioneered is fantastic, will streamline industry and business on a massive scale, it's likely blockchain and ledger tech will be built into just about everything in a few years

    How long will our cash-making speculative market last? no idea. There is definitely the threat that if too much public money starts disappearing into it that governments will step in and either regulate against cryptos (bad) or start to regulate for cryptos (good, but less volatility, less mad gains)


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