GoBe / BE marriage on the rocks?

Mrs OBumble

GoBus have announced that GoBe's stops are moving to Burgh Quay in Dublin and St Patrick's Quay in Cork.

Does that mean the love-in with Bus Éireann is over? Or am I mis-interpreting?

devnull

I have noticed lately that over the last few months that GoBus have operated a number of their GoBe services in-house rather than using coaches from Bernard Kavanagh for everything like they used to.

There's till a lack of consistency on experience on GoBe - The GoBus operated runs tend to be Volvo 9700s but the Bernard Kavanagh ones can literally be anything - I've seen 6 different types of coaches in the last month or so of ages from a year old to 10 years old, they range from the excellent, to the good and to the horrible.

Personally if GoBus went alone I think it might be better for everyone - when you have three parties involved it's harder to reach quick decisions and everyone is taking a cut which obviously pushes prices up.

Having dedicated, high quality, fully liveried vehicles will help as well.

bk

Sounds like they will be going their separate ways. I wonder will they keep the GoBE name or rebrand GoBus.

As a regular GoBE user, I've mixed feelings. On the Cork end, I quiet liked the Bus Station, not fancy, but perfectly serviceable and way better then Busaras. The spot down by the river is a really cold, windy and wet place to have to wait. Cork badly needs a private coach station like Galway.

As for Busaras, won't miss it, complete dump. But again standing outside in the rain with a buggy and child isn't great. I wonder now that both their Cork and Galway services are operated from the same location, if they might rent one of the shops next to the stop and open a waiting area like City Link have. Would help with that.

Getting back to Cork, I really wish Aircoach/GoBus/Citylink/Dublin Coach got together and rented a building across from the stops and created a waiting area/coffee shop. It badly needs it.

Coaches on this street are already mad as it is, adding GoBus will add to it. I think some day there is going to be a very serious accident there. They really need a private bus station in Cork.

BTW I saw a question on another forum about how Aircoach and GoBE can operate from the same street. Basically my understanding is that the city council want all private coaches operating from this location and won't allow anywhere else. It is basically Cork's crappy equivalent of the Galway bus station. So Aircoach, Citylink, Dublin Coach, now GoBE, Jameson tour and loads of other private tour buses operate out of their. It really is super overcrowded.

Hopefully this separation means less money needs to go three ways and they can focus on making the service more consistent (fleetwise) and maybe even expand the schedule.

devnull

bk wrote: »

Sounds like they will be going their separate ways. I wonder will they keep the GoBE name or rebrand GoBus.

GoBe is trademarked to Bus Eireann so if parties are going their own ways then I would expect the GoBe name to be dropped and it to simply become GoBus.

GM228

I don't think moving the stops in itself can suggest the end of the GB/BE partnership to be honest. It is probably a joint GB/BE decision.

GoBé have stated the change is due to congestion issues, being more central for passengers, to allow more timely departures and also allow a 15 minute stand/boarding time.

As Devnull has pointed out "GoBé" is registered with the Patents Office by BE and if there was to be a divorce the service would most likely come under the existing GoBus banner going forward.

I have often wondered though if the alleged intimidation claims during the BE strike caused any strain in the relationships of the companies.

bk

devnull wrote: »

GoBe is trademarked to Bus Eireann so if parties are going their own ways then I would expect the GoBe name to be dropped and it to simply become GoBus.

I'd expect so, interesting to see what happens to their website, twitter and facebook pages.

On facebook, one of their customers ask if they can still buy tickets in the bus station. They don't directly say no, but it is clearly implied, they say buy online.

So yes, I'd say the partnership is over. To be honest, I always thought it was a bad idea. But now their established user base are understandably unhappy and they will have to rebuild their customer base again with less differentiator from Aircoach now.

I wonder will we see a bit of a price war, I hope not.

devnull

GM228 wrote: »

I don't think moving the stops in itself can suggest the end of the GB/BE partnership to be honest. It is probably a joint GB/BE decision.

Thing is though following these changes, what benefits are there left at this partnership from a GoBus point of view now they are no longer using Bus Eireann facilities if the partnership is still going to be in existence post 22nd January?

One of the key reasons it was stated that they went into partnership is that Bus Eireann could provide infrastructure and support and stabling points for free that otherwise GoBus would have had to pay for in the past and access to a base of customers that are literally on the doorstep of the stop and covered facilities.

bk

GM228 wrote: »

I don't think moving the stops in itself can suggest the end of the GB/BE partnership to be honest. It is probably a joint GB/BE decision.

GoBé have stated the change is due to congestion issues, being more central for passengers, to allow more timely departures and also allow a 15 minute stand/boarding time.

I'm not buying that excuse at all. I have seen some issues at Gate 16 in Busaras, but never a problem in Cork, they always smoothly operated out of the same gate in Cork. And in Cork, the location change is certainly for the worse.

I can see some justification for the Dublin change all right, but really not for the Cork end. If they were still in partnership then I'd have expected them to continue to operate out of the Cork Bus Station. No congestion issues there and not the crappy river side location like Patricks Quay.

I can't see why they would continue in partnership with BE if they aren't operating out of their bus stations. They would simply be paying BE for literally nothing. What would BE be brining to the business?

GM228 wrote: »

I have often wondered though if the alleged intimidation claims during the BE strike caused any strain in the relationships of the companies.

I wonder the same.

devnull

bk wrote: »

On facebook, one of their customers ask if they can still buy tickets in the bus station. They don't directly say no, but it is clearly implied, they say buy online.

I noticed that too - the statements that they are using appear very rigid as well - the thing about GoBus is normally they're more relaxed, less corporate and formal than I've seen them being over recent days - all it really suggests to me to be honest is that there was an agreed statement.

So yes, I'd say the partnership is over. To be honest, I always thought it was a bad idea. But now their established user base are understandably unhappy and they will have to rebuild their customer base again with less differentiator from Aircoach now.I wonder will we see a bit of a price war, I hope not.

There's another thought to this though - since GoBe are going to be parking on St Patrick's Quay, they've been allocated a stop IN FRONT of Aircoach and the coach stop is the nearest St Patrick's Bridge - this means that to access Aircoach passengers are going to have to go past GoBe - if they run a fare promotion advertised widely on their vehicles and have their coaches on stand very early they could benefit from it.

This is a similar kind of tactic that Dublin Coach have used with the Belfast route where they are parked ahead of the Aircoach stop so the first service you see when you walk down Glengall Street is the Dublin Coach one - it essentially means those who are taking competition will see your vehicle every day and that is a great chance to try and take some of the trade away from your competitor.

boardsuser1

I haven’t had the chance to read over the previous comments as I’m only on a short break here in the lorry.

There will be fireworks on St Patrick’s Quay in Cork.

It’s just too small to accommodate all the operators.

You have Paddywagon,Aircoach,Dublin Coach,Cronins and Citylink all using that small area.

Kearneys have often had several coaches there on top of it all as hire-in’s for both Paddywagon and Aircoach. Finlays and Kennedys also operate hire-in’s coming to Cork from Dublin and Kerry.

Tourist coaches also park there.

And now GoBe is being thrown into the mix?

At the best of times the left lane coming down that quay is blocked off by coaches queuing up as other coaches have the spaces.

The only solution to this is to remove cars further back down the quay to create more parking.

GM228

Out of curiosity I contacted Go Bus who are very quick to respond, the response was:-

"There are no plans for GoBus and Bus Eireann to end the GoBe service. We will continue to work with Bus Eireann for the forseeable future"

bk

Looking at the BE website, I see all any mentions of the GoBE service.

There is no mention of this change under news, which I'd expect if they were still in partnership.

No mention in their real time system or under buy fares online and no ad on the front page like their use to be.

Only presence is a link to the GoBE website on the intercity page.

Really feels like it is all over.

devnull wrote: »

There's another thought to this though - since GoBe are going to be parking on St Patrick's Quay, they've been allocated a stop IN FRONT of Aircoach and the coach stop is the nearest St Patrick's Bridge - this means that to access Aircoach passengers are going to have to go past GoBe - if they run a fare promotion advertised widely on their vehicles and have their coaches on stand very early they could benefit from it.

This is a similar kind of tactic that Dublin Coach have used with the Belfast route where they are parked ahead of the Aircoach stop so the first service you see when you walk down Glengall Street is the Dublin Coach one - it essentially means those who are taking competition will see your vehicle every day and that is a great chance to try and take some of the trade away from your competitor.

That is assuming they can get into that space, in reality it is complete mayhem down there. I don't think I've ever seen that space empty!

I hope such a price war doesn't happen, I know it did in the early days of the Galway route, but that ended years ago and now they and Citylink park side by side with no issues. So I hope the same can happen in Cork. Maybe even a little co-operation towards a private coach station.

I wonder if they are hoping that they won't have to reduce prices. Remember they probably don't have to pay BE any more, so if they can keep their customer base, then they might make more money without needing more customers.

And maybe they hope that as people pass quiet GoBE coaches on their way to get to overcrowded Aircoaches, they will try GoBE instead.

On the other hand, they won't have the same differentiator any more and might lose some customers to cheaper Aircoach services.

It will be a wobbly few months for both services I suspect.

BTW Another thought, maybe the strikes and lost revenue caused some contract break clauses and might even mean they get the brand.

boardsuser1

GM228 wrote: »

Out of curiosity I contacted Go Bus who are very quick to respond, the response was:-

"There are no plans for GoBus and Bus Eireann to end the GoBe service. We will continue to work with Bus Eireann for the forseeable future"

Is Jim Burke planning to make GoBe a stand alone company like GoBus without BE assistance?

He’s doing well for himself

http://www.gobus.ie/news.php?id=90

bk

GM228 wrote: »

Out of curiosity I contacted Go Bus who are very quick to respond, the response was:-

"There are no plans for GoBus and Bus Eireann to end the GoBe service. We will continue to work with Bus Eireann for the forseeable future"

Thanks, that maybe what they are saying for legal reasons, but I'm not buying it.

I don't see how they are working with BE on this. BE literally has zero involvement now.

Unless BE has a purely financial involvement and are still part financing it. But it seems very weird.

bk

Thing is look at what each side previously brought to the relationship.

GoBus:
- Owned the route license
- Operated the service
- Supplied the coaches (either directly or via contractors)
- Supplied the drivers (either directly or via contractors)
- Supplied the depot and maintained the coaches
- Online tickets sold via GoBus website
- Online media run by them, twitter, facebook, mails (came from gobus.ie)

BE:
- Bus stations
- Tickets sold in the Bus Stations
- Marketing on the BE website
- GoBE trademark/brand

Well as far as I can see now, all of BE's above involvement except for maybe the last thing is now gone! So it feels very much all over.

Maybe their is some behind the scenes financial involvement, but that seems to be all that is left.

jimmycrackcorm

I think the obvious answer is that this is a preventative measure for the future BE unions strikes. Its' one thing to picket BE stations but they'll have no business picketing on public quays.

devnull

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I think the obvious answer is that this is a preventative measure for the future BE unions strikes. Its' one thing to picket BE stations but they'll have no business picketing on public quays.

They stopped buses leaving St Patrick's Quay when GoBe moved their during the recent strike which caused the service to fully cease for the duration of the strike.

Even if what you say is the case though, why bother to keep in partnership with Bus Eireann when there is no longer any advantage of doing so - it's literally just another way you have to split revenue for which you're getting little in return.

kub

devnull wrote:

They stopped buses leaving St Patrick's Quay when GoBe moved their during the recent strike which caused the service to fully cease for the duration of the strike.

By all accounts the union men showed the type they are when they stopped the GoBE service during those last 2 strikes.

I would not all be surprised if the unions are behind this.

devnull

New Leaflet has been issued on the GoBe site:
http://www.gobus.ie/uplds/gobe_dl_leaflet_final_22.01.18.pdf

kub

devnull wrote: »

New Leaflet has been issued on the GoBe site:
http://www.gobus.ie/uplds/gobe_dl_leaflet_final_22.01.18.pdf

I wonder will BE Expressway be annoyed at that coach as shown there, the exact same as their tri axels and the livery if you did not look twice certainly looks like Expressway.

boardsuser1

kub wrote: »

I wonder will BE Expressway be annoyed at that coach as shown there, the exact same as their tri axels and the livery if you did not look twice certainly looks like Expressway.

The main difference is that BE use grey,GoBe white.

Valid point you make, you could be fooled by it.

Was this secretly part of the deal to resolve the strike?

Once the contract expires or nears the end, get them out and don't renew it basically.

bk

kub wrote: »

I wonder will BE Expressway be annoyed at that coach as shown there, the exact same as their tri axels and the livery if you did not look twice certainly looks like Expressway.

Well in fairness, it does also look exactly like the actual GoBE coaches.

I suppose the similar colour scheme was part of the tie up between GoBus and BE. They both actually wanted looking like a BE coach, as it was operating out of BE stations.

Of course with these changes, it does make me wonder for how long the brand will stick around. I wonder if they are trying to minimise the impact of the changes. Step 1, move the stops, while keeping the brand. Then a few months later, rebrand as GoBus Cork.

devnull

bk wrote: »

Well in fairness, it does also look exactly like the actual GoBE coaches. I suppose the similar colour scheme was part of the tie up between GoBus and BE. They both actually wanted looking like a BE coach, as it was operating out of BE stations.

Do GoBE actually have any coaches in that full livery these days? I haven't seen one for ages.

boardsuser1

devnull wrote: »

Do GoBE actually have any coaches in that full livery these days? I haven't seen one for ages.

Took this in recent times.

devnull

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Took this in recent times.

Haven't seen one in that livery for a year or so now - normally I see something like this

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishlondoner/34496251015/in/photolist-UyjiAx-UmaksV-QDkw3W-QoUqLB-PREzHs-TzoUkA-Lqawb8-KA62cA-GN534P-GN3gSg-G5CML9-Ar24wW-yUzhJM-yUR7ow-wgrZHb-vmU6DT-wiAWaK-uBdSiJ-X2nt5z-XghcNx-TqGgef-QQinBx-Nn2gMi-HNLYxQ-Mnm2M2-rDvvNE-riocn3-qrQGmi-pv5QpT-pbGSXj-p1GE7V-oGzAmr-ocu4Eh-ovJJ3B-o3pcLf-nRZt46-nxHhSE-neDG4z-mAcips-mmgXFU-s5UZLp-x1YB4P-phHFvh-q8oiXL-oqFdgU-oFa4Tu-nV9d3k-nz9NXP-nvwAR5-mJRVTA

boardsuser1

devnull wrote: »

Haven't seen one in that livery for a year or so now - normally I see something like this

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishlondoner/34496251015/in/photolist-UyjiAx-UmaksV-QDkw3W-QoUqLB-PREzHs-TzoUkA-Lqawb8-KA62cA-GN534P-GN3gSg-G5CML9-Ar24wW-yUzhJM-yUR7ow-wgrZHb-vmU6DT-wiAWaK-uBdSiJ-X2nt5z-XghcNx-TqGgef-QQinBx-Nn2gMi-HNLYxQ-Mnm2M2-rDvvNE-riocn3-qrQGmi-pv5QpT-pbGSXj-p1GE7V-oGzAmr-ocu4Eh-ovJJ3B-o3pcLf-nRZt46-nxHhSE-neDG4z-mAcips-mmgXFU-s5UZLp-x1YB4P-phHFvh-q8oiXL-oqFdgU-oFa4Tu-nV9d3k-nz9NXP-nvwAR5-mJRVTA

Yeah I see those regularly with Barry’s, owned by Bernard Kavanagh.

bk

I've seen both of the above regularly over the last few months. Though perhaps the latter is a sign of things to come.

bk

So, I was in the bus station in Cork this weekend. No notice of the GoBE service on the departure boards or other signs/advertising and more importantly no sign of it on the automated ticket machines. The X8 was the only service to Dublin listed.

I haven't had a chance to check in Busaras, but that seems pretty clear break up to me.

I took the GoBE service down and back to Cork this weekend. For me personally the stop locations in Dublin are better then Busaras. Nice and close to O'Connell St axis, the pick up point is relatively quiet and doesn't have the boarding issues Gate 16 has at Busaras. Nice Starbucks just 10 meters away and also another coffee shop closer. Eden Quay drop off fine too.

In Cork, they don't actually have the stop closest to Patricks Bridge. Cobh Connect seem to have two stops closer, with GoBE being the third from the bridge. Not a big deal, just FYI. The coach was already there waiting when I arrived 20 minutes before departure and could board then, so nice you don't have to wait in the rain and cold.

BTW There are actually two very small coffee shops across from the coaches their in Cork. But really small pokey ones. I feel that there really could be a proper coffee shop/convenience store could go in there. Of course one of the best coffee shops in Ireland, Cork Coffee Roasters and a convenience store is just 5 minutes walk up around the corner if you are there early enough.

boardsuser1

bk wrote: »

So, I was in the bus station in Cork this weekend. No notice of the GoBE service on the departure boards or other signs/advertising and more importantly no sign of it on the automated ticket machines. The X8 was the only service to Dublin listed.

I haven't had a chance to check in Busaras, but that seems pretty clear break up to me.

I took the GoBE service down and back to Cork this weekend. For me personally the stop locations in Dublin are better then Busaras. Nice and close to O'Connell St axis, the pick up point is relatively quiet and doesn't have the boarding issues Gate 16 has at Busaras. Nice Starbucks just 10 meters away and also another coffee shop closer. Eden Quay drop off fine too.

In Cork, they don't actually have the stop closest to Patricks Bridge. Cobh Connect seem to have two stops closer, with GoBE being the third from the bridge. Not a big deal, just FYI. The coach was already there waiting when I arrived 20 minutes before departure and could board then, so nice you don't have to wait in the rain and cold.

BTW There are actually two very small coffee shops across from the coaches their in Cork. But really small pokey ones. I feel that there really could be a proper coffee shop/convenience store could go in there. Of course one of the best coffee shops in Ireland, Cork Coffee Roasters and a convenience store is just 5 minutes walk up around the corner if you are there early enough.

Cobh Connect is run by Barry’s who are owned by Bernard Kavanagh who in turn operate the service from Cork.

I have seen a photo of one of the Cobh Connect coaches operating the GoBe service to Dublin in full CC livery.

Padraig Mor

Yeah, the Cobh Connect and GoBE stops are essentially interchangeable, and managed by the same staff.

bk

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Cobh Connect is run by Barry’s who are owned by Bernard Kavanagh who in turn operate the service from Cork.

I have seen a photo of one of the Cobh Connect coaches operating the GoBe service to Dublin in full CC livery.

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Yeah, the Cobh Connect and GoBE stops are essentially interchangeable, and managed by the same staff.

Yes, I did notice that the branding on the coaches and the bus stops looked extremely similar. Though their wasn't any noticeable overlap in staff managing the stops when I travelled on it.

I was sort of surprised at how small the GoBE bus stop was and that their wasn't stronger advertising of it being a Cork to Dublin route to try and win some passing Aircoach business. Perhaps they are going to develop it slowly rather then going head to head.

BTW Padraig Mor do the Cobh Connect coaches have toilets on board?

Padraig Mor

bk wrote: »

BTW Padraig Mor do the Cobh Connect coaches have toilets on board?

TBH I'm not sure - I don't think so; I usually sit near the front. I'm using it regularly at the moment as I can't drive for a while due to an injury, although I've mostly gone back to the train instead (despite it being double the cost) as its extra space is a bit more broken bone friendly!

Cobh Connect has been a huge success though - peak services at least are usually more than full (extra bus often needed). Big queue on Patrick's Quay in the evening for the return bus. AFAIK they hope to expand their timetable if the NTA (I think?) give them permission.

bk

Thanks Padraig, it is very interesting to hear about the Cobh Connect service, I was wondering how it was doing.

Of course a short journey like this shouldn't need toilets, which is why I was a little surprised to hear one of their coaches running on the GoBE route which always has toilets. Maybe they have one toilet equipped coach for overlap on both routes.

It is an interesting development and might help partly explain the GoBE move. Their is an increasing trend of the intercity services operating Dublin to Cork/Limerick/Galway, etc. and from those cities then operating more local services on. Maybe some day we will see a Dublin Airport - Dublin City - Cork - Cobh service. Might offer flexibility to expand both services.

Either way it shows Cork now badly needs it's own private coach station. Lots of services operating there.

I got the 630pm Dublin->Cork bus last Friday. I booked via the GoBus website but when I got to the quays in Dublin only a GoBE bus was evident which I just got on. I assume this was the bus I was supposed to get? The other thing was it left early without being full, was gone by about 1825 or so. If I'd been running a bit later I would have missed it.

Have to say I thought the service was pretty good. Got to Cork in about the same time as driving myself, €23 return, bus was comfortable enough. I'll be getting it again.

bk

Santiago Brief Neanderthal wrote: »

I got the 630pm Dublin->Cork bus last Friday. I booked via the GoBus website but when I got to the quays in Dublin only a GoBE bus was evident which I just got on. I assume this was the bus I was supposed to get? The other thing was it left early without being full, was gone by about 1825 or so. If I'd been running a bit later I would have missed it.

That has always been the case. The GoBE service is operated by GoBus (who also run buses between Dublin and Galway). When you go to the GoBE website and click buy tickets, it redirects you to the GoBus website where you actually buy the tickets.

However do double check the bus you are getting on. That bus stop now has both GoBE buses heading to Cork and GoBus buses heading to Galway, so be careful not to mix them up. I won't be surprised if the GoBE service eventually gets rebranded to GoBus Cork or something similar.

Strange the driver left early, I've never seen them leave early before, perhaps the watch/clock you were looking at was slow?

Santiago Brief Neanderthal wrote: »

Have to say I thought the service was pretty good. Got to Cork in about the same time as driving myself, €23 return, bus was comfortable enough. I'll be getting it again.

Yes, it is a very nice and relaxing way to travel. Strictly speaking car is faster, but you can relax and watch a movie, etc. on the bus and it is cheaper then Diesel.

If you are taking it frequently, sign up to the GoBus Club, you get 1 in 10 trips free, which brings the cost down more.