Is he mad?

Dakota Dan

A man I know who's 58 is getting into dairying this year from an almost greenfield site. He'll be milking 70 cows, currently in summer grazing. Over 200k investment including cows. He have 2 sons with no interest in farming. Is it madness 10 years away from pension age? Maybe I am missing something but will he get a return on his investment?

Thunderbird

Dakota Dan wrote: »

A man I know who's 58 is getting into dairying this year from an almost greenfield site. He'll be milking 70 cows, currently in summer grazing. Over 200k investment including cows. He have 2 sons with no interest in farming. Is it madness 10 years away from pension age? Maybe I am missing something but will he get a return on his investment?

No but his son's Will

Muckit

Perhaps it was something he always wanted to do. He may have very little financial commitments now, family reared, mortgage paid and/or land loans paid off.

Maybe he just likes hardship!

Sure if it keeps him happy and out of the pub, hospital or nursing home it might be a great move!!

Say my name

Dakota Dan wrote: »

A man I know who's 58 is getting into dairying this year from an almost greenfield site. He'll be milking 70 cows, currently in summer grazing. Over 200k investment including cows. He have 2 sons with no interest in farming. Is it madness 10 years away from pension age? Maybe I am missing something but will he get a return on his investment?

Milk cows for a few years and sell the place or maybe the family have an interest you don't know about.

Either way nobody's put a gun to his head.


I hope you won't call the authorities based on answers here.

Dakota Dan

Say my name wrote: »

Milk cows for a few years and sell the place or maybe the family have an interest you don't know about.

Either way nobody's put a gun to his head.


I hope you won't call the authorities based on answers here.

That didn't take long. I was just wondering what people opinions were on it.

Timmaay

We are all mad to some degree, it's what makes us unique and keeps life interesting!

Say my name

Dakota Dan wrote: »

That didn't take long. I was just wondering what people opinions were on it.

Ah well seriously. What did you expect?

I've known people to sell the farm and buy holiday lets and live in the Sun.
Other people quit civil service jobs and buy modest farms.

It's all a personal preference at the end of the day.
Albert Einstein defined the definition of madness as doing the same thing again and again every day and expecting different results. Or was that insanity?..

Bullocks

Neighbour of mine did it 2 years ago and I'd say he is in his mid 60's .
Never milked cows before but always wanted to give it a go .
The farm is also about 30 miles from where he is living
He has one son with no interest in milking (they can only carry at most 45 cows on the milking platform so he reckons it wouldnt compare to a 40 hr week and wage so why bother )
I was talking to him recently and he is happy out and said sorry he didnt do it sooner , the montly cheque makes it alot easier work compared to a yearly pay out from sucklers and he can pocket a good bit more of it aswell .
He was never afraid of hard work though and not sure is this a happy retirement plan and would it be different if he had to rear his family and pay a mortgage on that size farm .

Milking on a small scale probably isnt a bad option for someone semi retired that doesnt mind the extra workload of daily milking over feeding drystock or sucklers and only requires a limited amount of drawings from the farm i.e. not a massive wage

wrangler

Dakota Dan wrote: »

A man I know who's 58 is getting into dairying this year from an almost greenfield site. He'll be milking 70 cows, currently in summer grazing. Over 200k investment including cows. He have 2 sons with no interest in farming. Is it madness 10 years away from pension age? Maybe I am missing something but will he get a return on his investment?

I hope I live as long as he thinks he's going to

davidk1394

Fair play to the man for trying it. It could be the happiest few years of his life. Maybe his children might become interested as the years go on. Happened here a farmers son went off for 15 years and now came back home running the show and they are both happy.

Panjandrums

This post has been deleted.

mf240

endacl

Thunderbird wrote: »

No but his son's Will

*Grammar nazi hat on*

How do you know his son's name?

I says

I let ye know what the neighbours think when I start the new shed shortly.

Bullocks

I says wrote: »

I let ye know what the neighbours think when I start the new shed shortly.

Don't bother we will make it up to suit ourselves anyhow :P

I says

Bullocks wrote: »

Don't bother we will make it up to suit ourselves anyhow :P

I don’t need a shed for that lark to start

Cattlepen

Stone mad

Birdnuts

Dakota Dan wrote: »

A man I know who's 58 is getting into dairying this year from an almost greenfield site. He'll be milking 70 cows, currently in summer grazing. Over 200k investment including cows. He have 2 sons with no interest in farming. Is it madness 10 years away from pension age? Maybe I am missing something but will he get a return on his investment?

I know a guy doing this down the road from my scrub farm in North Mayo. He made alot of money in the building game in the UK and has now come back. Has spent an eye watering amount of money on land improvement, housing, a milking plateform and other equip. Most locals think he's mad but to quote Bobby Brown via his big hit in 1990 "its my money and I earned it, not you, so I'll spend it how I like!!" . Most of Bobby's money disappeared up his nose via another form of white gold so at least our friend might fare a bit better taking everything into account:pac:;)

kk.man

Birdnuts wrote: »

Dakota Dan wrote: »

A man I know who's 58 is getting into dairying this year from an almost greenfield site. He'll be milking 70 cows, currently in summer grazing. Over 200k investment including cows. He have 2 sons with no interest in farming. Is it madness 10 years away from pension age? Maybe I am missing something but will he get a return on his investment?

I know a guy doing this down the road from my scrub farm in North Mayo. He made alot of money in the building game in the UK and has now come back. Has spent an eye watering amount of money on land improvement, housing, a milking plateform and other equip. Most locals think he's mad but to quote Bobby Brown via his big hit in 1990 "its my money and I earned it, not you, so I'll spend it how I like!!" . Most of Bobby's money disappeared up his nose via another form of white gold so at least our friend might fare a bit better taking everything into account:pac:;)

That guy probably worked hard in the U.K. and dreamt of returning to farm in Ireland. If that was his dream irrespective of age I take my hat off to him.
Those of us who fail to make our dreams a reality achieve nothing.

Thunderbird

Thunderbird wrote: »

No but his son's Will

All I meant was that his descendants would be payingv off loans

memorystick

Fair play to him. It's never too late to start pulling tits.

liam7831

The arse is gonna fall out of the milk price and the likes of him best have the vaseline at hand. Glanbia alone took on 66 new entrants last year

simx

liam7831 wrote: »

The arse is gonna fall out of the milk price and the likes of him best have the vaseline at hand. Glanbia alone took on 66 new entrants last year

What happens here is a drop in the ocean worldwide

liam7831

simx wrote:

What happens here is a drop in the ocean worldwide

Ya I know but the price will only go one way I believe as the co ops will put it down to oversupply

Dakota Dan

liam7831 wrote: »

The arse is gonna fall out of the milk price and the likes of him best have the vaseline at hand. Glanbia alone took on 66 new entrants last year

I'm kinda in the same boat as him but I've a get out plan if things go tits up so to speak. He's hoping milk price holds up, probably didn't hear about Jim Woulfe's talk at the positive farmers conference.

Water John

But butter looks like holding at about €4K/tonne.
Might hold milk up. Lessen the big swings.

Dakota Dan

Water John wrote: »

But butter looks like holding at about €4K/tonne.
Might hold milk up. Lessen the big swings.

Hopefully, they are talking down the price with milk powder stocks in intervention that will have to be used as cattle feed because it's there over 18 months.

Water John

Yeah, Jim has been signing that, with a good while. If it isn't Brexit, it will be falling commodity prices will knock the milk price.
When he retires, the meat factory boys might take him on as a spokesman.

Say my name

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Hopefully, they are talking down the price with milk powder stocks in intervention that will have to be used as cattle feed because it's there over 18 months.

If you can tell the price of milk or any produce ( commodity , hate the word commodity when it's all so different) in a year's time you'd either be a wise person or a wealthy person or both.
There's too many variables outside the farm gate.
Look at beef price now with all the new markets. A farmer couldn't have forecasted that.
The same with this food scare in France with baby milk powder having to be dumped in 18 countries because of salmonella poisoning.
Who knows what could happen maybe Irish product could take that market?
Same with grass fed butter.
Too many variables.

Keep your own farm in the black and manage costs as best as you can and work like a ****** with your head and hands.

Dakota Dan

Water John wrote: »

Yeah, Jim has been signing that, with a good while. If it isn't Brexit, it will be falling commodity prices will knock the milk price.
When he retires, the meat factory boys might take him on as a spokesman.

I remember when Jim was a young fella starting off in Ballyclough co op. Jim was talking at a meeting one night for about an hour when he said I'd better stop now before I bore ye one man said no need you already have

Icelandicseige

Dakota Dan wrote: »

A man I know who's 58 is getting into dairying this year from an almost greenfield site. He'll be milking 70 cows, currently in summer grazing. Over 200k investment including cows. He have 2 sons with no interest in farming. Is it madness 10 years away from pension age? Maybe I am missing something but will he get a return on his investment?

Not madness at all if he is farming full - time. What's madness is if he has been at beef or tillage on his scale full - time.

Maybe he doesn't plan on sitting by the fire when he retires. Milking cows will give him responsibility, a schedule, physical activity, a chance to make money and leave the place better than he got it and not to mention the never ending list of things to do and planning ahead to keep the mind active and healthy.

Contract out all machinery work. Not much work in dairy then. I'm only young and id love to be milking cows when I'm his age and older for them reasons...... .200k investment?? There has been a lot of thought put into that..!!Don't be fooled or over come by listening to chit or chatter

Rebel Man

Would 200k do it? Seems small when you include parlour, shed and cows.

Dakota Dan

Rebel Man wrote: »

Would 200k do it? Seems small when you include parlour, shed and cows.

He's got a shed for cubicles everything else is from scratch. Probably nearer 250k.

kowtow

Icelandicseige wrote: »

Not madness at all if he is farming full - time. What's madness is if he has been at beef or tillage on his scale full - time.

Maybe he doesn't plan on sitting by the fire when he retires. Milking cows will give him responsibility, a schedule, physical activity, a chance to make money and leave the place better than he got it and not to mention the never ending list of things to do and planning ahead to keep the mind active and healthy.

Contract out all machinery work. Not much work in dairy then. I'm only young and id love to be milking cows when I'm his age and older for them reasons...... .200k investment?? There has been a lot of thought put into that..!!Don't be fooled or over come by listening to chit or chatter

+1000

Did something similar myself and have never once regretted doing it, although I often wish I did it earlier - and I am still the right side of 50 (just about..)

Milking cows is good for the soul.

49801

I believe inheritance on farms is much more tax efficient

Mooooo

kowtow wrote: »

+1000

Did something similar myself and have never once regretted doing it, although I often wish I did it earlier - and I am still the right side of 50 (just about..)

Milking cows is good for the soul.

Can lead to some soul searching along the way

Dakota Dan

Mooooo wrote: »

Can lead to some soul searching along the way

Especially the years when milk price is the same as production costs.

wrangler

49801 wrote: »

I believe inheritance on farms is much more tax efficient

Yea, a son or daughter can inherit around €3m worth of farmland and equipment tax free. whereas they can only inheri t around €300000 in money tax free

bertie 56

Sometimes, a grumpy wife at home is a good enough reason to be out in the fields ...

Dakota Dan

bertie 56 wrote: »

Sometimes, a grumpy wife at home is a good enough reason to be out in the fields ...

That rings a bell :eek:

Dakota Dan

wrangler wrote: »

Yea, a son or daughter can inherit around €3m worth of farmland and equipment tax free. whereas they can only inheri t around €300000 in money tax free

But the son or daughter needs to have a cert in farming to avail of that.

wrangler

Dakota Dan wrote: »

But the son or daughter needs to have a cert in farming to avail of that.

Or you can lease it to a qualified farmer,

I seems it's enough to be a farmer for over 50% of your time either

If the valuation date is on or after 1 January 2015, to qualify as a farmer you must also either:

farm the agricultural property on a commercial basis for at least six years from that date or
lease the property to someone who farms the agricultural property on a commercial basis for at least six years from that date.

Additionally, the person receiving the gift or inheritance, or the person leasing the property must either:

have an agricultural qualification (as listed in Schedule 2, 2A or 2B of the Stamp Duties Consolidation Act 1999)
or farm the agricultural property for at least 50% of his or her normal working hours.

Gawddawggonnit

kowtow wrote: »

+1000

Did something similar myself and have never once regretted doing it, although I often wish I did it earlier - and I am still the right side of 50 (just about..)

Milking cows is good for the soul.

My brother and wife are here for a few days. Comfortably off and retired.

Take home lesson; Nobody ever said on their deathbed, ‘I wish I worked harder’.

Reggie.

I says wrote: »

I let ye know what the neighbours think when I start the new shed shortly.

Must keep an eye out for a new shed

PeterCasey

Timmaay wrote: »

We are all mad to some degree, it's what makes us unique and keeps life interesting![/QUOTE


Especially if you are irish touch of the mad man in us all

CloughCasey1

Timmaay wrote: »

We are all mad to some degree, it's what makes us unique and keeps life interesting!

As the FIL used to say....arra amaceen if you dont go with the head you are only following the crowd!!

BnB

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

My brother and wife are here for a few days. Comfortably off and retired.

Take home lesson; Nobody ever said on their deathbed, ‘I wish I worked harder’.

Depends what makes you happy though. There are plenty of people in the world who would shrivel up and die sitting around the house all day or fecking off on holidays 2 or 3 times a year. They are happy working away.

Can you imagine the pride and sense of achievement that fella the OP is talking about will have in himself when he's fully up and running. I see plenty of farmers around home who are working and farming away well after they should have retired. And whenever you talk to them you'll be guaranteed 2 things..

• They'll tell you how there's no money in farming
• They're always in great form

So the whole...."I wish I worked harder" thing is fine if you are punching in a job that you don't like or even feckin' hate. But if you're doing something that makes you happy, keeps you fit and healthy out in the fresh air and gives you a great reason to get out of bed in the morning, why stop it.

Say my name

BnB wrote: »

So the whole...."I wish I worked harder" thing is fine if you are punching in a job that you don't like or even feckin' hate. But if you're doing something that makes you happy, keeps you fit and healthy out in the fresh air and gives you a great reason to get out of bed in the morning, why stop it.

I had a Bord Bia/dept inspector tell me nearly exactly that one day.
Basically saying how he hated his job and even he wasn't getting any enjoyment or fulfilment in what he was doing.
He was looking at my father and saying how lucky he was to have something to get up for every day and enjoy what he was doing.
The only enjoyment he was mildly getting was playing golf and even this was leaving him empty inside.
However bad he felt the job was, he was dreading retirement.

Wildsurfer

BnB wrote: »

Depends what makes you happy though. There are plenty of people in the world who would shrivel up and die sitting around the house all day or fecking off on holidays 2 or 3 times a year. They are happy working away.

Can you imagine the pride and sense of achievement that fella the OP is talking about will have in himself when he's fully up and running. I see plenty of farmers around home who are working and farming away well after they should have retired. And whenever you talk to them you'll be guaranteed 2 things..

• They'll tell you how there's no money in farming
• They're always in great form

So the whole...."I wish I worked harder" thing is fine if you are punching in a job that you don't like or even feckin' hate. But if you're doing something that makes you happy, keeps you fit and healthy out in the fresh air and gives you a great reason to get out of bed in the morning, why stop it.

Now that's a lovely post which sums up the positive side of farming. So much negativity in our industry no wonder the next generation would think twice about taking it on as a profession.

Wildsurfer

liam7831 wrote: »

The arse is gonna fall out of the milk price and the likes of him best have the vaseline at hand. Glanbia alone took on 66 new entrants last year

You really need to research global supply and demand if you think 66 entrants is even worth mentioning. We would all have sold up 2 years ago if we had listened to this sort of nonsense. We are in a world of 'volatile' market prices now which will mean good milk price years and poor milk price, but on average there is still a good living to be made from dairying if you manage your costs accordingly.

grassroot1

The guy mentioned in the op post is 58 years of age. A man has 20 good years there are between 20 and 40 not 40 and 60.
The thing I cant figure is what bank would lend that sort of money to a 58 year old?
There is a difference between semi retirement with 20 cattle and slavery with 200 plus milking cows.