Is 41 too old to go for a commercial licence ?

itsasecret

Hi,

My husband who is 41, should have his private pilot licence before Easter and is now strongly considering starting towards his commercial licence. He has looked into it and feels it should cost about 60k including type rating??. He wants to do it in Poland. He seems to think he would have this done by modular in about 24 months? And then hopefully get a job with ryanair. Could anyone advise if all this went to plan would he be likely to get a base in Dublin and if not can he request to move home. We have three young kids and im not loving the idea of him being away for 5 days. How long are people normally co pilots for? Any help would be great.. thanks

martinsvi

Ryanair type rating is 30k, cheapest flight training in Poland is about 17k + accommodation and licensing costs, then you need ATPL theory (cheapest would be around 2k I think), night rating - just around 1k, and the hour building - your husband needs to fly some 100 hours before he can begin the commercial training. You will do very well for yourself if you will do it under 12k, generally when we look back it was closer to 15k for most of us these days. So basically your husbands budget needs another 5-7 or so grand added to it, assuming the PPL budget is separate and already accounted for

regarding the age, one of my best friends, who got his commercial license quite recently is about to begin his career with Turkish Airlines, he's 40. 41 is not too old for most airlines. The time one will take to become a captain is dependent on the airline. Airlines that grow faster or have poor staff retention will upgrade it's "co-pilots" to captains in about 4 or so years time. Legacy carriers see their first officers become captains in about 10-15 years time, or if times are tough - never.

On to your last concern - getting a base in Dublin - airlines like Ryanair will send their pilots where they are needed. Over time you can bid for the base you want and with the seniority he might get into Dublin in his second or third year.. At certain point he will need to become a captain and again, as a fresh captain he will be sent to a base where he is needed. Again, as his seniority grows, he has a good chance to come home again over time. All of that can be disturbed at any point, for example any industrial action might cause your husband to be moved across the network

*disclaimer - I do not work for Ryanair and the above detail is provided to me by a couple of senior Ryanair pilots who were kind enough to share their experience when I was considering joining Ryanair

on the more personal note, don't stand in your husbands way, if he's passionate about it, let him do it. Have him sign up to an ATPL theory course, if he "dies", he "dies", won't be your fault. That stuff aint easy and should not leave a huge dent in your family budget.


EDIT: oh **** I forgot the MCC, so after your hubby has completed his CPL ME IR, add another 2-10k for MCC.. for 2k you learn the very basics, for about 5k you will get up to a Ryanair standard, for 10k you will learn what not to do in a job interview..

basill

The reality of the industry is this......

- becoming a pilot is a process of self selection. You tell the world that you are gonna be the next best thing but the reality is that most people never get a commercial job nor ever had the aptitude to do so in the first place
- its a young kids game these days and definately better if your single as it can be an extremely selfish industry.
- the money sucks in most airlines. We have copilots who were captains at other smaller airlines and they are earning more now. Check out ppjn for salary rates.
- getting a preferred base in an airline such as Ryanair is well documented (see pprune website for all the tales of woe). Basically dont count on getting a base that you want is what all the copilots that were with Ryanair tell me each day at work
- your husband is "ancient" to be starting out in this industry and there is zero guarantee that he will get a job at the end of it. Because he is starting out so late he is unlikely to get a return on his investment before he will have to retire. At best if he did manage to get into Ryanair and get a command after 3-4 years then he will be lates 40s. The usual career path of a Ryanair pilot is to jump ship for better terms and conditions after a few years. That puts him at the bottom of a seniority list where he will be a copilot for potentially another 5-10 years depending on who he joins. After all this jumping ship he wont have a pension.
- I dont know any reputable airlines that hire people that have taken themselves off to a random school in Poland either. The majority of our pilots have either been sponsored cadets or from Oxford or Jerez and went the integrated route. The rest were direct entry pilots from other airlines but they would have trained at a reputable UK or Irish flight training school to have gotten their first job.

Personally I would tell him to enjoy the PPL, buy a share in an aircraft and enjoy the views of the countryside and develop his flying skills. Taking two years out to build up debt with a very small chance of ever getting a career out of it doesnt stack up to me when you are married with a young family.

pepe the prawn

basill wrote: »

- I dont know any reputable airlines that hire people that have taken themselves off to a random school in Poland either.

I can name a few, Ryanair, Stobart, Jet2, Adria, DHL... in fact the number of students that have attended perhaps the most well known polish school that are being hired is extremely high..

martinsvi

pepe the prawn wrote: »

I can name a few, Ryanair, Stobart, Jet2, Adria, DHL... in fact the number of students that have attended perhaps the most well known polish school that are being hired is extremely high..

Can I add LOT, Germania and Aegean to your list? I believe basill's info is slightly outdated- what he's saying was definitely the case number of years ago, but no longer holds truth. Also that bit where he called a 41 year old - ancient.. at 41 you have some 19-24 good years ahead of you, loads of time to figure out your pension and other bits. Depends really on ones personal fitness. At 41 you have something to talk about in you job interview. Take some 20-odd years back and you have nothing. I think recruiters have noticed this as well..

Captain_Crash

A good friend of the family was in his mid 40's when his financial circumstances changed, resulting in an opportunity for him to go to Oxford. He's now a Senior FO with BA on the 777.

If he's ambitious, has the right passion and want for it... it can be done! its not easy when you have a family, but equally, a family can provide the right support for someone to work hard for what they want.

Stovepipe

Don't forget about getting an instructor's rating, to keep the flying going if nothing happens, airline-wise.

itsasecret

Thanks everyone.. he is going to go for the medical and see if he gets that. I'm not sure if we are being crazy and i hate the idea of him being away so much

adam88

itsasecret wrote: »

Thanks everyone.. he is going to go for the medical and see if he gets that. I'm not sure if we are being crazy and i hate the idea of him being away so much

I can see why people think he’s crazy going for it when he’s 41 but I can see the other side of it as well, in my profession about 30 percent of the intake is >35 and many come from comfortable jobs, some people think they’re crazy for leaving all that behind but it’s what they want. If he doesn’t go for this he could be unhappy for the rest of his days

Lustrum

Before your husband commits to this, you need to sit down and have a chat and make sure you are both committed to it. He might be lucky and get a job straight away in Dublin with Aer Lingus or Stobart, or he might be unlucky and not get a job for years, have to keep forking out for medical and IR renewals and be constantly getting rejection letters from every job he applies for. And if the two of you are not willing to support each other emotionally through that journey then it may not be the right move.

I commute from Dublin to the UK for my job, and have done for the last 3.5 years. We've 3 kids under 4, and I usually have about 8-10 nights per month at home. I'm trying my best to get based back in Dublin, but in the meantime, I'm fully supported by my amazing wife who has been by my side the whole way. If she wasn't on board with it, either the job would have had to go or the marriage would have gone.

I don't mean to put a dampner on his dreams (I absolutely love flying), but it really is something that you'll both have to go through together and be ready for the ups and downs

itsasecret

Thanks Lustrum, i think reading that helps ground us. I do want to be supportive but i honestly think he is going to be miserable being away from the kids and me and thats the best case if he does get a job, and that is if he does pass the exams.. my head is melted.

Lustrum

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do. Just make sure you've spoken about everything together, and feel free to give me a shout it you have any more questions about what it's like

smurfjed

Excellent post Lustrum, I am however going to guess that you are flying with an airline that has connections to ireland,  a lot don't, so 10 days per month either becomes impossible or impossibly expensive.
I'm lucky as my wife lives with me, but I have lots of friends who are geographical bachelors, they spend each and every month fighting for limited days off and trying to find good connections to Ireland. Being in an established marriage with kids is a good anchor as I have also seen a lot of boyfriend/girlfriend relationships destroyed by the lack of time together.
It certainly is one of the best jobs in the world, at times