Simple square extension on traditional cottage?

eamon11

Hello Folks,

as stated above its a simple old traditional cottage which I am renovating. Very small for a few people so I will be making an extension by simply moving the rear wall 4 metres back. Rear wall has to be knocked anyway as full of water. This will mean roof from front house will look similar to before but from back will have a much longer slope. House will end up close to square in shape.
Will this spoil the look of a traditional cottage? I have seen many little houses added to this way.
Many thanks in advance for the replies.

Who2

eamon11 wrote: »

Hello Folks,

as stated above its a simple old traditional cottage which I am renovating. Very small for a few people so I will be making an extension by simply moving the rear wall 4 metres back. Rear wall has to be knocked anyway as full of water. This will mean roof from front house will look similar to before but from back will have a much longer slope. House will end up close to square in shape.
Will this spoil the look of a traditional cottage? I have seen many little houses added to this way.
Many thanks in advance for the replies.

By moving it out 4 meters your going to leave the roof at a very low pitch. Quinn do the lowest pitch tile that goes down as far as 17 degrees but they are about three times the price of a normal tile. Imo your better off putting a sharp modern looking extension off the likes of these cottages to give it a completely different section rather than try to marry the two. Something like a large flat roof with a POURED asphalt roof, bring up parapet walls and clad with zinc and a couple of big glass doors. You'll be surprised the amount you'll spend trying to blend in the long pitched roof.

eamon11

many thanks who. I see what you mean. But as the rear wall and roof has to come off anyway, I thought I could do it this way as the handiest and most economic. Whats your views on the square aspect of the house?

Bullocks

Who2 wrote: »

By moving it out 4 meters your going to leave the roof at a very low pitch. Quinn do the lowest pitch tile that goes down as far as 17 degrees but they are about three times the price of a normal tile. Imo your better off putting a sharp modern looking extension off the likes of these cottages to give it a completely different section rather than try to marry the two. Something like a large flat roof with a POURED asphalt roof, bring up parapet walls and clad with zinc and a couple of big glass doors. You'll be surprised the amount you'll spend trying to blend in the long pitched roof.

I've seen a few nice examples of this , its the way I would be going aswell . It can make a right job of a dark cottage if its in the right spot

Bullocks

eamon11 wrote: »

many thanks who. I see what you mean. But as the rear wall and roof has to come off anyway, I thought I could do it this way as the handiest and most economic. Whats your views on the square aspect of the house?

I think the downside of a square cottage will be the trouble getting light into the middle of the house and as Who2 said the height of the ridge can make it tricky to get a decent pitch on the roof when it goes out longer .
It could be worth sitting down with an architect and checking out a few options suitible to your own house / site . I know it will cost a bit of money (tell him your budget before ye go too far ) but they will have good ideas they can tailor to suit your house and give a plan you can work to that will give alot of clarity during the build

Who2

If your stripping the back of the roof your going to end up stripping the front too so be under no illusion. You won't get away with propping on an old cottage. If you want to save the roof your going to have to leave it whole. Prop it existing and try to work a long steel the length of the back wall and then start taking your wall out. Old buildings like that are money pits so don't be fooling yourself into thinking this can be done on the cheap. Labour is always a killer on them.

eamon11

many thanks lads, The whole roof has to come off anyway as its rotten. A lot of water has gotten in. Also the rear wall.With this in mind, don't I have more scope for the extension?

Nekarsulm

Keep a small part of a side wall intact, and knock the rest.
Build something that's highly insulated and energy efficient.
I've seen a few "conversions" attempted, and by the time they're done it would have been better (and cheaper) to build out of the new.

eamon11

Thanks lads,

you are saying to keep a small part of the side wall to avoid having to go through planning? Would this be enough?

Bullocks

eamon11 wrote: »

Thanks lads,

you are saying to keep a small part of the side wall to avoid having to go through planning? Would this be enough?

Planning can be a nightmare but mightnt be so bad on an existing building
Has anyone lived there recently , is there power or septic tank in it ?

Nekarsulm

Were you going to apply for planning for the rear extension?
There was a modernisation grant available for old houses, and I know of one neighbour who only left a bit of wall about 10 foot long standing and built from there, and got the grant!
Don't know if it still exists. ( the grant that is)

Bullocks

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Were you going to apply for planning for the rear extension?
There was a modernisation grant available for old houses, and I know of one neighbour who only left a bit of wall about 10 foot long standing and built from there, and got the grant!
Don't know if it still exists. ( the grant that is)

Despite peoples best efforts to maintain the front and gable walls sometimes they fall or have to come down for safety reasons during the build

eamon11

thanks a lot lads,

I was hoping to avoid planning if possible. This is a house which will be occupied by 1 or 2 families for Christmas and summer visits only. Does not need to be highest spec. Also an eyesore at the moment so something more presentable would be nice. Was lived in until about 7 years ago. Power off now. Doe's have septic tank, albeit small.. Has mains water. Roof caved in and a lot of water ingress.

jimini0

Bullocks wrote: »

Despite peoples best efforts to maintain the front and gable walls sometimes they fall or have to come down for safety reasons during the build

Ya we did up an old stone and mass concrete wall house last year. Left a full gable up. They got planning to extend but had to keep at least 1 gable. The man's wife was delighted cos she loved the old stone that would be on the outside wall. The husband didnt. We had foundations dug nearly ready to pour the gable was ready to be underpined too. then husband arrived that eve. He gave us 50 each to walk down the road to the pub for half an hour. We came back and the gable was half down. He hopped on the machine and accidently knocked the gable. Engineer cam out the next morning and said it had to come down for safety reasons. So it's a new house they got not an extension.

Water John

Cork CC will insist on retaining the front wall any way. Others may differ. As above, it could be 'unsound' when yo get that far.
Seen a front wall incorporation done recently. Totally daft.

With the back wall having to go, total new build makes more sense. Incorporate similar style windows to keep the planner happy, if needed.

eamon11

I agree total new build would make better sense. But as its basically going to be empty a lot of the time I don't feel it justifies going through the planning process. I am going to spend a bit on it to make it presentable and livable for short periods, but I need to work with what I have. So that means, keeping everything fairly simple to the original design and incorporating a 40m2 extension at back of house which doesn't need planning. Thanks for all your ideas, I appreciate it.

jimini0

eamon11 wrote: »

I agree total new build would make better sense. But as its basically going to be empty a lot of the time I don't feel it justifies going through the planning process. I am going to spend a bit on it to make it presentable and livable for short periods, but I need to work with what I have. So that means, keeping everything fairly simple to the original design and incorporating a 40m2 extension at back of house which doesn't need planning. Thanks for all your ideas, I appreciate it.

You should go with the flat roof for the extension. New roof on existing house. What are the windows like? Is it insulated?

eamon11

windows very small, painted wooden red. Would like to install bigger, double glazed one but am unsure what changes I can make without planning. Was dry lined but as water got in this has been destroyed. Old stone walls probably over 100 years old.

Water John

If you retain, I don't understand why the back wall needs to go. It is likely largely stone and will dry out once covered.
With the back extension, it effectively become an internal wall, and would be a great heat sump.

eamon11

thanks John, you might be right. The walls are pretty wet and the cement is more like clay and has been compromised. I do not trust it and thought seeing as I am adding an extension anyway I may as well get rid of it. Very easy to erect a stud wall afterwards. The house actually has a little attic where 1 person slept many moons ago. Even has a tiny gable attic window.

Who2

eamon11 wrote: »

thanks John, you might be right. The walls are pretty wet and the cement is more like clay and has been compromised. I do not trust it and thought seeing as I am adding an extension anyway I may as well get rid of it. Very easy to erect a stud wall afterwards. The house actually has a little attic where 1 person slept many moons ago. Even has a tiny gable attic window.

chances are your window heads are made of timber and completely rotten, if this is the case id say your better off with something like an ex-120 and level the lot.

mayota

Bullocks wrote: »

Despite peoples best efforts to maintain the front and gable walls sometimes they fall or have to come down for safety reasons during the build

Sometimes the front wall wouldn’t be tied in the best to the new block work.

Nekarsulm

3 bed residential for 21,000. Seems a great way to get a roof over your head.

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Chisler2

eamon11 wrote: »

thanks John, you might be right. The walls are pretty wet and the cement is more like clay and has been compromised. I do not trust it and thought seeing as I am adding an extension anyway I may as well get rid of it. Very easy to erect a stud wall afterwards. The house actually has a little attic where 1 person slept many moons ago. Even has a tiny gable attic window.

There are a number of different questions in your original post and it might be useful to separate them out into - for example "What have I got?" "What do I want?" "What do I need?" "What options are ALLOWED?"

If you put up photographs it would be easier for posters to respond to your questions. From what you write, this is an old rubble-stone double-walled structure with "hearting" of a mixture of small stone, peat, earth, dung or whatever insulant was lying around on the day......"a vernacular Irish dwelling". Is it?

First off you need an expert opinion (engineer or good hands-on conservation architect or builder) on the actual condition and stability of the structure. The fact it is intended to be a "holiday home" for brief family gatherings is irrelevant as far as planning permission and Building Control Regulations are concerned.

If the mortar is as compromised as you describe the source(s) of the water-damage need to be found and remedied, the old mortars raked out, damaged or unstable stone replaced by sound, and the whole remortared with lime.........hot lime (made on site from burning field-limestone) is the Gold Standard but most of us compromise with Natural Hydraulic Lime (NHL) which can be purchased in dry powder form and these days is stocked by a few outlets in Ireland.

Re-establishing the original dwelling will give you the basis for any extension.

freedominacup

jimini0 wrote: »

Ya we did up an old stone and mass concrete wall house last year. Left a full gable up. They got planning to extend but had to keep at least 1 gable. The man's wife was delighted cos she loved the old stone that would be on the outside wall. The husband didnt. We had foundations dug nearly ready to pour the gable was ready to be underpined too. then husband arrived that eve. He gave us 50 each to walk down the road to the pub for half an hour. We came back and the gable was half down. He hopped on the machine and accidently knocked the gable. Engineer cam out the next morning and said it had to come down for safety reasons. So it's a new house they got not an extension.

Jeez, I never heard the likes of that before in my life. The things fellas will do eh.😉😉

Water John

Yeah, heard of that. From an engineer, who did it to his own house, Ha.