Potential first time EV buyer!

Ush1

Howdy folks,

I'm looking to buy an EV for my daily commute. It's normally a 24km round trip but I'm sometimes out on customer sites and can be further but never usually a huge distance(various parts of Dublin).

There's an EV charge point very close to my work which is handy as well but I just have a few questions.

I'd get a home charge point, I don't have a night rate electricity meter as we don't use much electricity after 11pm. How much would it cost to per charge of the car in terms of the electricity?

Car wise I'm looking to spend 10-11k. It's basically between the Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe. I'm leaning actually towards the Zoe as I like Renaults anyway but it seems to have decent range and charging times. Obviously it's second hand ones I'm looking at.

Any thoughts comments on my plan?

KCross

Ush1 wrote: »

I'd get a home charge point, I don't have a night rate electricity meter as we don't use much electricity after 11pm.

First off, it costs nothing to get the night rate meter installed.

Your day rate will go up marginally (maybe 1c/kWh) but your night rate (7c/kWh) will be half your day rate (14c/kWh) so it would be recommended to get the night rate meter once you get an EV regardless of whether you use any other electricity at night or not.

Ush1 wrote: »

How much would it cost to per charge of the car in terms of the electricity?

For city driving you'll probably get about 15kWh/100km. Add 10% for charger losses so for every 100km's you do it will cost you approx €1.15 (16.5kWh * 7c)

Of course it all depends on how heavy your right foot is and will vary depending on the car but I'm in the right ballpark.

Ush1

KCross wrote: »

First off, it costs nothing to get the night rate meter installed.

Your day rate will go up marginally (maybe 1c/kWh) but your night rate (7c/kWh) will be half your day rate (14c/kWh) so it would be recommended to get the night rate meter once you get an EV regardless of whether you use any other electricity at night or not.




For city driving you'll probably get about 15kWh/100km. Add 10% for charger losses so for every 100km's you do it will cost you approx €1.15 (16.5kWh * 7c)

Of course it all depends on how heavy your right foot is and will vary depending on the car but I'm in the right ballpark.

Thanks for that.

I got the night rate meter switched out around 2 years ago as I was advised by Electric Ireland that unless you use roughly one quarter of your electricity at night(after 11pm I believe it was), it was cheaper to go with a day rate meter so I did, at a cost of 250 quid to get it in also! You reckon that's not the case now?

So a full charge seems fairly cheap anyway if I can't use a public charging point.

Any thoughts on the Zoe over the Leaf?

n97 mini

Ush1 wrote: »

I got the night rate meter switched out around 2 years ago

Did they physically remove the meter? There is no need to, as it's just a change in billing.

Ush1

n97 mini wrote: »

Did they physically remove the meter? There is no need to, as it's just a change in billing.

Yes they did. Not sure if it was because the existing night rate meter was very old or something and so had to be swapped?

KCross

Ush1 wrote: »

Thanks for that.

I got the night rate meter switched out around 2 years ago as I was advised by Electric Ireland that unless you use roughly one quarter of your electricity at night(after 11pm I believe it was), it was cheaper to go with a day rate meter so I did, at a cost of 250 quid to get it in also! You reckon that's not the case now?

It costs nothing to get the night rate meter in but they do (supposedly) charge you if you decide to go back to 24hr billing. I presume thats to stop people changing over/back constantly.

Since you appear to have done it already they might charge you to go back to day/night billing again. You'll just have to ask them and fight your corner but it is usually free to switch to day/night billing.

If you have an EV it makes financial sense to have a night rate meter. Anything more than about 3kWh each night makes it viable. You will be using multiple of that if you have an EV (depending on mileage you do).

Ush1 wrote: »

So a full charge seems fairly cheap anyway if I can't use a public charging point.

Any thoughts on the Zoe over the Leaf?

I don't know much about the Zoe other than a lot of them have battery rentals which you should avoid like the plague. You want a battery owned version which will be harder to find.

I'll let others who actually own one comment further.

waynegalway

Ush1 wrote: »

Thanks for that.

I got the night rate meter switched out around 2 years ago as I was advised by Electric Ireland that unless you use roughly one quarter of your electricity at night(after 11pm I believe it was), it was cheaper to go with a day rate meter so I did, at a cost of 250 quid to get it in also! You reckon that's not the case now?

So a full charge seems fairly cheap anyway if I can't use a public charging point.

Any thoughts on the Zoe over the Leaf?

Every household uses electricity differently, but based on the likely daily mileage you’ve mentioned (which is relatively low), you should check out the unit prices carefully before deciding. In my case, the day rate went up from 16 to 19c if I put in the night meter, and I figured out that given most of the draw would be during “day” hours, it wasn’t worth the switch. I ended up getting a flat rate of 12.6c per kWh, valid 24 hours a day. That’s a bit dearer than a pure night rate, but it works out better overall given our usage pattern.

Ush1

waynegalway wrote: »

Every household uses electricity differently, but based on the likely daily mileage you’ve mentioned (which is relatively low), you should check out the unit prices carefully before deciding. In my case, the day rate went up from 16 to 19c if I put in the night meter, and I figured out that given most of the draw would be during “day” hours, it wasn’t worth the switch. I ended up getting a flat rate of 12.6c per kWh, valid 24 hours a day. That’s a bit dearer than a pure night rate, but it works out better overall given our usage pattern.

Interesting, was that 12.6c rate something you negotiated?

I will have to look into carefully as my wife is at home during the day, cooker is electric also.

KCross

waynegalway wrote: »

In my case, the day rate went up from 16 to 19c if I put in the night meter, and I figured out that given most of the draw would be during “day” hours, it wasn’t worth the switch.

What company was that with?

The last two companies I've used are Energia and Airtricity and the difference between 24hr and the day rate was only 1c/kWh

Energia right now on 24hr tariff is 14c/kWh
On day/night rate it is 15.39/7.38

Airtricity on 24hr is 15c/kWh
On day/night it is 16.42/8.13

Again 1c/kWh difference on day rate but half price on night rate!

I think you were being screwed at 19c!


If the majority of EV charging is during the day then it is a moot point but that would be unusual for most people. I think the majority charge at night but the 12c rate you have sounds like the right choice for you because you are a day charger.

waynegalway

KCross wrote: »

What company was that with?

The last two companies I've used are Energia and Airtricity and the difference between 24hr and the day rate was only 1c/kWh

Energia right now on 24hr tariff is 14c/kWh
On day/night rate it is 15.39/7.38

Airtricity on 24hr is 15c/kWh
On day/night it is 16.42/8.13

Again 1c/kWh difference on day rate but half price on night rate!

I think you were being screwed at 19c!


If the majority of EV charging is during the day then it is a moot point but that would be unusual for most people. I think the majority charge at night.

We were with Bord Gais Energy, but after going on one of the switcher websites (cant remember which one, but pretty sure it was Bonkers), we got a rate of 12.6 from Energia.

Ush1

KCross wrote: »

If the majority of EV charging is during the day then it is a moot point but that would be unusual for most people. I think the majority charge at night but the 12c rate you have sounds like the right choice for you because you are a day charger.

Well in my own case I'd normally be home before 7pm, so that would give 4 hours charging before the night rate. To be fair I'm not sure on average how long they take to fully charge.

waynegalway

Ush1 wrote: »

Well in my own case I'd normally be home before 7pm, so that would give 4 hours charging before the night rate. To be fair I'm not sure on average how long they take to fully charge.

I usually get home with about 50% left, and that takes about 2-3 hours to fully recharge (LEAF with upgraded charger). Like you, I get home well before the night rate would kick in, and I like to stick it on charge straight away just in case I need to go back out in it unexpectedly.

KCross

waynegalway wrote: »

We were with Bord Gais Energy, but after going on one of the switcher websites (cant remember which one, but pretty sure it was Bonkers), we got a rate of 12.6 from Energia.

12.6c is a good 24hr rate to have.... assuming that includes VAT?

Bord Gais haven't been competitive for a while. If you use any reasonable amount of electricity at night it pays to have the day/night meter. If you are charging an EV every night its a no brainer.

You can then get further savings by shifting your dishwasher/dryer etc to night as well.

KCross

Ush1 wrote: »

Well in my own case I'd normally be home before 7pm, so that would give 4 hours charging before the night rate. To be fair I'm not sure on average how long they take to fully charge.

There are timers in the car. You plug in when you get home and the car will initiate the charge when the night rate kicks in.

With your mileage I'd say the car will charge in 2-3hrs.

waynegalway

KCross wrote: »

12.6c is a good 24hr rate to have.... assuming that includes VAT?

Bord Gais haven't been competitive for a while. If you use any reasonable amount of electricity at night it pays to have the day/night meter. If you are charging an EV every night its a no brainer.

You can then get further savings by shifting your dishwasher/dryer etc to night as well.

Agree 100%

The flat rate I got is very good, and yes, it includes VAT.

There’s definitely a case for a day/night meter for lots of people, it just didn’t add up in my case when I looked at it as a whole.

Ush1

Okay, just checking the Renault Zoes I was looking at are battery lease so forget that. Gonna go for a Leaf.

Any tips on what to check for? Seems to be decent value up north on them and I believe there is no VRT on electric cars?

waynegalway

Ush1 wrote: »

Okay, just checking the Renault Zoes I was looking at are battery lease so forget that. Gonna go for a Leaf.

Any tips on what to check for? Seems to be decent value up north on them and I believe there is no VRT on electric cars?

Have a read of this, hopefully you’ll find it useful: https://wp.me/P6u5qR-5N

Soarer

I switched my leccy account to a budget account. Basically they looked at my last 18 months of bills, got the average, and I pay the average every month.
My bill hasn't gone up since I got the car, even though my usage has.
It'll probably be readjusted on the 12 month anniversary of the switch over. But I can't imagine my monthly going up that much.

It's nice that the bill is always the same, especially over the Christmas time.

KCross

Ush1 wrote: »

Gonna go for a Leaf.

Any tips on what to check for? Seems to be decent value up north on them and I believe there is no VRT on electric cars?

Correct, you will pay no VRT on a Leaf as it is within the exemption limit of €5k.

Obviously stay away from battery lease on the Leaf as well... its called "Flex".

With a €10k budget you are going to be looking at 2013/2014 timeframes so you will need to watch that you get a Gen 1.5 Leaf as it has a better battery and several issues resolved that were in the Gen 1(manufactured up to I think around Jun 2013 but some registered in 132, possibly a couple in 141)

Easiest way to tell is that the Gen 1.5 will have an Eco button on the steering wheel and it will NOT have the electronic brake button in the centre armrest/console.

Another tell tale sign is that if its a beige interior its likely to be a Gen 1 so look for the dark interior.

Look at rear tyre wear. Some Leaf's don't wear evenly and require an axle replacement which is expensive outside warranty.

Shefwedfan

OK couple of things to note. I swapped from 24 hour rate to day/night. I never used electricity at night but all of my white goods had delay buttons. I am now at 50% day 50% night. A little more at night. I have everything set to turn on at night, including the car of course. My electric bill was 80 per month, it is now 100 per month, this is not only because of car but because of other circumstances

Check if all white goods can be delayed(dish washer, washing machine etc). It takes a bit of getting used to but not a huge change. If they cannot be delayed it might not be worth it just for car.

You have 10k budget but do you need to spend 10k? I got a perfect 12 Leaf with 30k km full battery for circa 7k last year........9 Was the SV line....ok so it is the older battery but who cares. For the mileage you are doing you will be driving for a long time before the battery becomes an issue. A lot of people on here have the Gen 1 with over 100k km on them without major issues.