Car not starting, Battery not giving enough power?

JimiTime

Hi Guys,
Curious one here I'm hoping for some insight on. I have a 2005 Honda FRV. Over the last I'd say 2 - 3 months, I went to start my car on 2 occasions only to find it not igniting. Rather than constantly trying it and killing the battery, I left it off for a minute and tried again with a rev, and thankfully it started. Then, on Saturday, I went to start it and it did it again. I tried a few times, then later that day and nothing. Again, didn't want to kill the battery so phoned a guy I know who is a mechanic. He immediately said it sounds like the fuel pump. He came out and checked the fuel pump, which was pumping. He checked the fuel line on the engine end, and again, fuel was pumping through. Then checked spark, again, good. He had no compression tester, but said it did not sound like compression issue.
He then attached a battery booster to the car and ignited. After a while, bang, it ignited and has been starting since.
He was a bit flumoxxed but reckons that maybe the battery (which is old), whilst not dead, may not be giving enough power to start the car.
Anyone hear of this issue before?
My sister had a fuel pump go on her car a while back, and the process sounded exactly the same as my issue, i.e. sporadic non starts, eventually ending in no start at all. She said new fuel pump sorted it.

Any insight or experience with this car guru boadsies?

Alanstrainor

Your battery is dead. Why the mechanic didn't check this is a bit baffling. Batteries die in the cold, especially if they are cold. I would be replacing the battery as first port of call. Or at very least getting the voltage tested.

JimiTime

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Your battery is dead. Why the mechanic didn't check this is a bit baffling. Batteries die in the cold, especially if they are cold. I would be replacing the battery as first port of call. Or at very least getting the voltage tested.

Thanks for responding. Pardon my ignorance, but in my experience, a dead battery has a very distinct symptom of the ignition dying off, you see your dash lights etc go off etc too when trying to start. Any dead battery, including on this car exhibited this symptom when it died and I'd need to jump start it.
On this occasion it wasn't doing that at all. It sounded and looked like it was continuously trying to ignite. Being aware that continuously trying to ignite the engine would kill the battery, I did not keep doing it. So are you saying that a dead battery can give me all signs of normal life, but not be sending enough power to start the engine? Please understand that the mechanic knows what a typical dead battery trying to start a car sounds like, and it did not give the usual audible and visual symptoms associated with a dead battery.

Alanstrainor

JimiTime wrote: »

Thanks for responding. Pardon my ignorance, but in my experience, a dead battery has a very distinct symptom of the ignition dying off, you see your dash lights etc go off etc too when trying to start. Any dead battery, including on this car exhibited this symptom when it died and I'd need to jump start it.
On this occasion it wasn't doing that at all. It sounded and looked like it was continuously trying to ignite. Being aware that continuously trying to ignite the engine would kill the battery, I did not keep doing it. So are you saying that a dead battery can give me all signs of normal life, but not be sending enough power to start the engine?

Hmmm... perhaps I just misunderstood your problem. Yes a dead battery would manifest itself as a the starter motor struggling to turn the engine and eventually dipping headlights etc.

Batteries do struggle in the cold, hence I jumped to that conclusion.

More info is needed really. What engine is it? Petrol? Diesel? Size?

JimiTime

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Hmmm... perhaps I just misunderstood your problem. Yes a dead battery would manifest itself as a the starter motor struggling to turn the engine and eventually dipping headlights etc.

Batteries do struggle in the cold, hence I jumped to that conclusion.

More info is needed really. What engine is it? Petrol? Diesel? Size?

It's a 1.7 VTEC petrol. Just some extra info, He attached the battery booster and tried starting it, but this time let it keep trying to start, as with the booster, the battery wouldn't die. After about maybe 10 seconds it ignited and stayed ignited. Then it continued to start without the booster, and was still starting today.
Do you know of an issue whereby a Battery can degrade in a way that it appears ok, but it's not sending enough juice to ignite?

aujopimur

Any motor factor will load test your battery FOC,start from there.

JimiTime

aujopimur wrote: »

Any motor factor will load test your battery FOC,start from there.

Thanks for the heads up. Have you any experience or knowledge of what I described? Is it possible that the battery appears to be doing what it should, and it sounds like everything is as it should, but its not actually giving enough to start the car?

Would a battery that fails a load test exhibit the symptom I describe, or should the symptom of a load test failure be your typical dead battery symptoms?

smuggler.ie

Not familiar with car/engine but wort to check spark plugs and leads/coil pack.
Moisture/condensation build up on shattered/cracked leads/connectors might cause power leak to engine block instead to spark plugs. Try spray WD40 on leads, etc. and see if it make difference.
Also worth to check all connectors(ignition related) for corrosion/oxidation and clean them up.

aujopimur

JimiTime wrote: »

Thanks for the heads up. Have you any experience or knowledge of what I described? Is it possible that the battery appears to be doing what it should, and it sounds like everything is as it should, but its not actually giving enough to start the car?

Would a battery that fails a load test exhibit the symptom I describe, or should the symptom of a load test failure be your typical dead battery symptoms?

The load test will show if you have a dud battery, the fact that it started easily when a power pack was used would point to a battery problem for me.

biko

Old battery + cold weather = all kinds of issues.

JohnBoy26

biko wrote: »

Old battery + cold weather = all kinds of issues.

No only one, a car that won't start.

Moanin

JimiTime wrote: »

Hi Guys,
Curious one here I'm hoping for some insight on. I have a 2005 Honda FRV. Over the last I'd say 2 - 3 months, I went to start my car on 2 occasions only to find it not igniting. Rather than constantly trying it and killing the battery, I left it off for a minute and tried again with a rev, and thankfully it started. Then, on Saturday, I went to start it and it did it again. I tried a few times, then later that day and nothing. Again, didn't want to kill the battery so phoned a guy I know who is a mechanic. He immediately said it sounds like the fuel pump. He came out and checked the fuel pump, which was pumping. He checked the fuel line on the engine end, and again, fuel was pumping through. Then checked spark, again, good. He had no compression tester, but said it did not sound like compression issue.
He then attached a battery booster to the car and ignited. After a while, bang, it ignited and has been starting since.
He was a bit flumoxxed but reckons that maybe the battery (which is old), whilst not dead, may not be giving enough power to start the car.
Anyone hear of this issue before?
My sister had a fuel pump go on her car a while back, and the process sounded exactly the same as my issue, i.e. sporadic non starts, eventually ending in no start at all. She said new fuel pump sorted it.

Any insight or experience with this car guru boadsies?

You need to scan it? It sounds like a Crankshaft sensor but that's a guess....

JimiTime

Moanin wrote: »

You need to scan it? It sounds like a Crankshaft sensor but that's a guess....

He thought that too, but the ECU showed no errors.

toyotafan

The same issue as my friend car. I did not start even we tried to jump start it by other cars. We called a mechanics with his professional jump starter. After 1 second, the car fire like a charm. And no issue until now. We do not know exact problem. The mechanic said because of the weak battery of the car. We also checked fuel pump, ignition, camshaft sensor. Everything was fine.

biko

toyotafan wrote: »

After 1 second, the car fried like a charm.

English is developing so fast I can't keep track of all the hip sayings..

ED E

A bit of 4th year physics for ya OP.

Voltage is just one measure of a cell (a battery). The other important two in this case are its capacity (Wh,Ah) and its C value. So lets say its a 12v battery that stores 10Ah of energy with a C value of 5. That means the cell, at its best, can push 50 Amps. And lets just go with the starter needs 40A minimum to start.

Then, 5yrs down the line the same battery is still charged at 12v(*) but is now down to storing only 2Ah instead of 10. Now it can only front up 20A, too little to start the car.

All the while its holding 12v so the interior lights, ECU etc can function. They're insignificant in relation to the starter motor.

Get a new battery.

*Wont overcomplicate things here, but I know

toyotafan

biko wrote: »

English is developing so fast I can't keep track of all the hip sayings..

mis typos, I meant " fire" ^^

aujopimur

Well OP, Which of us know alls got it right?.

JimiTime

Thanks to everyone who took the time. I got a new battery, though after the mechanic gave it the boost, the car was starting with the old battery like there was nothing ever wrong. Motor Factors Load Tested the battery and said it was on its way out anyway, so all good.
Anyway, hopefully thats it sorted, but due to the intermittency of the issue I'm still a bit apprehensive about declaring it sorted I'll report back if anything happens.
Thanks again.

aujopimur

Top marks to the battery guys