Wild variations in road standards by county

Dr_serious2

After travelling the roads of Ireland for a while I noted that the quality of national routes varied fairly significantly depending on the county I was in. For example, the roads in Mayo seemed better than the ones in Galway. Likewise, Offaly's roads appear to be better quality than Tipperarys. Is this really the case? And if so, why? Is it purely political pull or better use of resources by the respective councils?

L1011

Pre 1993, councils looked after national roads and applied for funding from the state (DoE usually, DoT is a late 1990s invention) directly. Political pull was critical here. Roads in or near various Taoiseachs and Ministers counties got precedence - the Longford boundaries used to be notable for their end of hard shoulder signage even on regional roads! Also some councils were wealthier than others, e.g. Meath used to have great rates income from big farms in the past.

For roads other than the major inter-urbans (N1/6/7/8/9 corridors) there are often huge sections planned or built pre 1993

Post 1993, the NRA took control of national roads and road planning; but there is still definite political pull in what gets funded - be it in their own constituency (Tullamore Bypass for Cowen) or just assisting their constituency (the Ballaghdereen Bypass for Kenny and Wicklow Gap for Howlin, both on the road from their area to Dublin). Then we get to the Dail vote-buying projects under the FF minority governments - all the Kerry upgrades for instance.

Dr_serious2

Deedsie wrote: »

Offaly roads are the worst in Ireland horrible bouncy bog roads. Tipperary has more kms of motorway than any other county in Ireland as far as I know.

Tipperary does have huge amounts of motorways but some of its national roads are terrible. The N52 from Tullamore to Birr is a great road but turns into a windy boreen after it goes through Riverstown into Tipperary.

The five major cities in Ireland and the counties between them and Dublin all have motorways now thankfully, but I was more interested in the differing standards in national routes.

L1011

Deedsie wrote: »

Tipperary has more kms of motorway than any other county in Ireland as far as I know.

Its a huge county, though.

Kildare has 100% of its national primary roads to HQDC or higher (a few houses near Johnstown on the N7 ruin it being motorway-grade, some unbuilt feeder road that even has bridge boxes built to allow it would allow it become motorway then), think Clare also has,

Odyssey 2005

Have you driven from the roundabout at Dunnes down through Tipp town to the roundabout at the Bansha/Golden junction. Like the surface of the moon. County town me arse.

Odyssey 2005

L1011 wrote: »

Its a huge county, though.

Kildare has 100% of its national primary roads to HQDC or higher (a few houses near Johnstown on the N7 ruin it being motorway-grade, some unbuilt feeder road that even has bridge boxes built to allow it would allow it become motorway then), think Clare also has,

The best thing to happen to the roads in Kildare was Smurfitt and the Ryder Cup.

L1011

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

The best thing to happen to the roads in Kildare was Smurfitt and the Ryder Cup.

That got the three-laning and overbridges on the N7 and the L2007 widened and fully marked/lined as a two lane road anyway

Aravo

Dr_serious2 wrote:

After travelling the roads of Ireland for a while I noted that the quality of national routes varied fairly significantly depending on the county I was in. For example, the roads in Mayo seemed better than the ones in Galway. Likewise, Offaly's roads appear to be better quality than Tipperarys. Is this really the case? And if so, why? Is it purely political pull or better use of resources by the respective councils?

Budgets show what funds are available for works, road improvements etc. Looking at respective total budgets, for roads, housing, env, planning etc. Mayo 2018 is e130m, population 130k, ie e1000 per person. Galway Co Co budget is e112m, population 175k, ie e640 per person. Meath Co Co budget is e110m, population 195k, ie e564 per person. How are the budgets calculated..... Political pull at play

sdanseo

Aravo wrote: »

Budgets show what funds are available for works, road improvements etc. Looking at respective total budgets, for roads, housing, env, planning etc. Mayo 2018 is e130m, population 130k, ie e1000 per person. Galway Co Co budget is e112m, population 175k, ie e640 per person. Meath Co Co budget is e110m, population 195k, ie e564 per person. How are the budgets calculated..... Political pull at play

And where was the last Taoiseach from? ... :rolleyes:

road_high

Dr_serious2 wrote: »

Tipperary does have huge amounts of motorways but some of its national roads are terrible. The N52 from Tullamore to Birr is a great road but turns into a windy boreen after it goes through Riverstown into Tipperary.

The five major cities in Ireland and the counties between them and Dublin all have motorways now thankfully, but I was more interested in the differing standards in national routes.

Tipperary roads are terrible (outside of the M-ways). There is a notable difference in surface standard/signs/lines between them and say Kilkenny. You can go for miles in Tipp with absolutely zero signage - I figure it's because it's such a large geographical area with only a certain funding level spread over that large area.

JupiterKid

Since the NRA took over the national roads and motorways in 1993, I don’t think that there’s a huge change in road quality between one county and another when you travel on the same route.

It is very noticeable on regional and county roads though. There remains a big difference between counties with respect to maintenance, lining, surfacing, alignment etc.

veryangryman

Generally any DC built was because it was an inter-urban or on the Atlantic Corridoor. Order of building them up for debate but they were all part of NDP or Transport 20.

Exceptions with Parish Pump stuff of course occurred in Meath, Mayo and Kerry but i wouldn't begrudge them decent roads. Most of them had decent sized traffic levels to justify it.

If anything, every county should be getting top-notch roads now that the country is doing well overall. The slowness of delivery is becoming increasingly unacceptable even with the recent announcements.

spuddy

veryangryman wrote: »

If anything, every county should be getting top-notch roads now that the country is doing well overall. The slowness of delivery is becoming increasingly unacceptable even with the recent announcements.

The question is, why aren't we getting it?

Years ago, as others have pointed out, there were marked differences is quality on most roads when crossing county borders. Today, that's disappeared on the routes managed by the NRA/TII. Roads don't stop at county borders, and having the ability to do things at scale, has yielded significant improvements in the national roads / motorways.

There would seem to be an obvious solution to dealing with the inconsistencies with the local roads too.

marno21

spuddy wrote: »

The question is, why aren't we getting it?

Years ago, as others have pointed out, there were marked differences is quality on most roads when crossing county borders. Today, that's disappeared on the routes managed by the NRA/TII. Roads don't stop at county borders, and having the ability to do things at scale, has yielded significant improvements in the national roads / motorways.

There would seem to be an obvious solution to dealing with the inconsistencies with the local roads too.

I believe that there is still a limit on capital spending due to budgetary constraints from the days of the bailout. The country's economy and employment levels are doing exceptionally well but up until recently there was still a budgetary deficit and a high level of debt to GDP.

The Capital Investment Plan provided for the construction of 8 schemes and getting 5 schemes shovel ready by 2021. The timeline was M7 (2017), N4/N56 (2018), Dunkettle (2019), Macroom (2020), Moycullen/N5 (2021). The other 5 schemes in planning look like they will be shovel ready in 2021 (N2 Slane, N6 Galway, M21, M28, Mallow bypass).

The real ramp up in construction funding starts in 2021, and hopefully the 5 shovel ready schemes can start then. Beyond then there is less of a strain on spending so we may see a further ramp in construction activity. The main issue at the minute is beyond the schemes above there is 2 projects that have planning approval (N5 Balllaghaderreen and the Listowel bypass). There is now a focus on getting projects shovel ready hence the 25 or so projects that are being reactivated.

spuddy

marno21 wrote: »

I believe that there is still a limit on capital spending due to budgetary constraints from the days of the bailout....

All the more reason to get the best value for money we can. You'd really have to wonder whether dividing up the already limited budget for local roads among 30-odd local authorities is the best way of achieving that aim.