Any Leaf 6.6kw owners with a home energy monitor?

n97 mini

Recently got our 32A tethered CP installed. 230V at 32A is 7.36KW.

Our home energy monitor (accurate to a couple of watts) shows the draw when the car is charging is indeed around 7.4KW, a good bump from the supposed 6.6KW.

Another thing I've noticed is if the charge timer is limited to 80% charge and the climate control is turned on after the charge has finished (either remotely or by timer) the battery starts to charge too and by the time I get to the car the battery will be >80%. Eg last night it charged to 80% on timer and today at about 4pm with the car still plugged in I turned on the CC. The draw was 7.4KW and 20 minutes later the battery was at 82%.

Curious about other people's experiences.

waynegalway

n97 mini wrote: »

Recently got our 32A tethered CP installed. 230V at 32A is 7.36KW.

Our home energy monitor (accurate to a couple of watts) shows the draw when the car is charging is indeed around 7.4KW, a good bump from the supposed 6.6KW.

Another thing I've noticed is if the charge timer is limited to 80% charge and the climate control is turned on after the charge has finished (either remotely or by timer) the battery starts to charge too and by the time I get to the car the battery will be >80%. Eg last night it charged to 80% on timer and today at about 4pm with the car still plugged in I turned on the CC. The draw was 7.4KW and 20 minutes later the battery was at 82%.

Curious about other people's experiences.

I don’t have a monitor, but I can second your experience regarding turning on CC. That also starts the charging process on my car, even if it had reached 80% before the CC was turned on. I think that’s a useful thing, as it means the pre-heating does not use up any battery. I think this only happens with a 32a charger on a 6.6kw LEAF, though, as a 16a charger probably doesn’t put out enough power to both pre-heat and charge the car.

n97 mini

waynegalway wrote: »

I don’t have a monitor, but I can second your experience regarding turning on CC. That also starts the charging process on my car, even if it had reached 80% before the CC was turned on. I think that’s a useful thing, as it means the pre-heating does not use up any battery. I think this only happens with a 32a charger on a 6.6kw LEAF, though, as a 16a charger probably doesn’t put out enough power to both pre-heat and charge the car.

It's useful that it doesn't deplete the battery but at the same time I'd prefer if it didn't charge it either. I'm loathe to use more day rate electricity than I want to!

waynegalway

n97 mini wrote: »

It's useful that it doesn't deplete the battery but at the same time I'd prefer if it didn't charge it either. I'm loathe to use more day rate electricity than I want to!

In my experience, charging to 80% and then turning on CC for 15 minutes before getting into the car results in a charge of about 85% at best, so it’s not a massive amount going in from the house supply. I’m on a 13c per kWh rate 24 hours a day, so that extra 5% costs about 13-14c.

KCross

n97 mini wrote: »

Recently got our 32A tethered CP installed. 230V at 32A is 7.36KW.

Our home energy monitor (accurate to a couple of watts) shows the draw when the car is charging is indeed around 7.4KW, a good bump from the supposed 6.6KW.

Thats not my experience. I have a 6.6kW Leaf and a 32A Rolec. AFAIK the most that can be drawn is 30A by a Leaf. My monitor shows 6.6kW being drawn, certainly nothing near 7kW anyway.

And of course, only ~6kW makes it to the battery due to efficiency.

n97 mini wrote: »

Another thing I've noticed is if the charge timer is limited to 80% charge and the climate control is turned on after the charge has finished (either remotely or by timer) the battery starts to charge too and by the time I get to the car the battery will be >80%. Eg last night it charged to 80% on timer and today at about 4pm with the car still plugged in I turned on the CC. The draw was 7.4KW and 20 minutes later the battery was at 82%.

Curious about other people's experiences.

Yes, this is how the cabin pre-heating works. It drains the main battery but then gets topped up from the grid to ensure you don't have reduced range when you go out to it.

I haven't ever used the 80% setting but it behaves the same way when charging to 100%. Sometimes I go out and it might be at 99% because it didn't get to complete the top up cycle.

n97 mini

KCross wrote: »

Thats not my experience. I have a 6.6kW Leaf and a 32A Rolec. AFAIK the most that can be drawn is 30A by a Leaf. My monitor shows 6.6kW being drawn, certainly nothing near 7kW anyway.

I'm going to turn off all other circuits in the house so that I can get rid of the background consumption figure, but it does look like 7.3-7.4KW. It's definitely more than 7KW.

KCross wrote: »

Yes, this is how the cabin pre-heating works. It drains the main battery but then gets topped up from the grid to ensure you don't have reduced range when you go out to it.

But with the 32A CP it charges faster than the heater depletes it. This is not really desirable and doesn't/can't happen with the granny cable (and probably the 16A CP, though I haven't checked). In fact with the granny cable it didn't deplete the battery at all... the CC just used the 2.2KW available.

KCross

n97 mini wrote: »

I'm going to turn off all other circuits in the house so that I can get rid of the background consumption figure, but it does look like 7.3-7.4KW. It's definitely more than 7KW.

I can't see how its technically possible. I think the i3 pulls more than the 30A but I don't think its possible for the Leaf to do it and as I said my meter shows it pulling 6.6kW which tallies with the Nissan spec.

Do you have LeafSpy at all? That also shows you how much is getting to the battery (after charger losses) so thats another good indicator of what you are pulling from the grid and again the max I see is 6kW's there.

Can you put one of those clamp on type meters on the charge point which would make it more accurate rather than reading full house load.

n97 mini wrote: »

But with the 32A CP it charges faster than the heater depletes it. This is not really desirable and doesn't/can't happen with the granny cable (and probably the 16A CP, though I haven't checked). In fact with the granny cable it didn't deplete the battery at all... the CC just used the 2.2KW available.

I'd say its a quirk(software bug) of how the 80% mode works. I presume it won't go far beyond 82% so its minimal either way.

n97 mini

KCross wrote: »

Do you have LeafSpy at all? That also shows you how much is getting to the battery (after charger losses) so thats another good indicator of what you are pulling from the grid and again the max I see is 6kW's there.

Can you put one of those clamp on type meters on the charge point which would make it more accurate rather than reading full house load.

The energy monitor I have is a clamp type. It's on the main supply into the house. That's why I said I'll turn off all the other breakers and see what the Leaf is drawing. I do realise that 32A from the plug doesn't mean 32A into the battery. Having looked on other forums 7.3/7.4KW isn't unheard of.

I have Leafspy but the OBD dongle thing I bought only worked for 2 weeks. Now it's dead in every car I try it in, so it's being returned.

KCross

n97 mini wrote: »

The energy monitor I have is a clamp type. It's on the main supply into the house. That's why I said I'll turn off all the other breakers and see what the Leaf is drawing.

My suggestion was to take that clamp on meter and shift it to the EVSE rather than the incoming mains. That should be easy to do and better than turning off all the other circuits.

n97 mini wrote: »

Having looked on other forums 7.3/7.4KW isn't unheard of.

I would have thought that the limiting factor is the onboard charger in the car. If it is spec'd for 6.6kW it shouldn't be able to pull more than that. Im skeptical to be honest but good for you if it is rated higher!

I think to be sure to be sure you'd need to cross check your energy monitor with what LeafSpy says. I find LeafSpy is fairly accurate both at home and on rapids.

What charge point do you have? Is it a Rolec?

waynegalway

KCross wrote: »

I think to be sure to be sure you'd need to cross check your energy monitor with what LeafSpy says. I find LeafSpy is fairly accurate both at home and on rapids.

Slight tangent (apologies OP!), but can you recommend a good quality dongle to work with LeafSpy? I'd like to get LeafSpy, but I've read reports about huge variations in quality of the hardware.

zilog_jones

I don't know an awful lot about them, but have heard that many of these "smart" energy monitors can be woefully inaccurate.

KCross

waynegalway wrote: »

Slight tangent (apologies OP!), but can you recommend a good quality dongle to work with LeafSpy? I'd like to get LeafSpy, but I've read reports about huge variations in quality of the hardware.

I bought this one
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00L3A2BJ4

Not much use to you now as its showing as unavailable!

I won't recommend any other ones to you as they are very hit and miss as to whether they will work or not.

Maybe someone else can post a link to an available one that worked for them.

I think its important to get a low profile dongle that doesn't stick out much as its easy to hit against it with your knees if it sticks out a lot. You don't want to bust the OBDII port!

zilog_jones wrote: »

I don't know an awful lot about them, but have heard that many of these "smart" energy monitors can be woefully inaccurate.

What make monitor is it?
Does it have any config settings for voltage?

Another test (in the absence of LeafSpy) is see what readings it gives when you, for instance, flick on your kettle. Your kettle will have its kW rating at the bottom so it should roughly match.

waynegalway

KCross wrote: »

I bought this one
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00L3A2BJ4

Not much use to you now as its showing as unavailable!

I won't recommend any other ones to you as they are very hit and miss as to whether they will work or not.

Does this one look like just a black version of the same device to you? Does the price tally with around what you paid?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01CG0XWDI/ref=s9_acsd_hps_bw_c_x_1_w

KCross

waynegalway wrote: »

Does this one look like just a black version of the same device to you? Does the price tally with around what you paid?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01CG0XWDI/ref=s9_acsd_hps_bw_c_x_1_w

It looks the same and it is the same Make (Vgate)
However, the problem is not what it looks like but the firmware running on it.

I see this note in your one... 'May not support some Hybrid or electric vehicles."

So, that doesn't give me a warm cosy feeling!

Dardania

zilog_jones wrote: »

I don't know an awful lot about them, but have heard that many of these "smart" energy monitors can be woefully inaccurate.

An accuracy problem could arise if there's no measurement of voltage - it might just be monitoring current, and assuming a certain voltage, which is higher than reality.

waynegalway

KCross wrote: »

I see this note in your one... 'May not support some Hybrid or electric vehicles."

Yep, spotted that too. I've emailed the vendor for clarification.

n97 mini

KCross wrote: »

My suggestion was to take that clamp on meter and shift it to the EVSE rather than the incoming mains. That should be easy to do and better than turning off all the other circuits.

I'd like to but it's physically not possible. My only option is to turn off everything else.

n97 mini

KCross wrote: »

What make monitor is it?
Does it have any config settings for voltage?

It's one of these:
http://efergy.com/uk/elite-classic

Voltage is set for 230.

KCross wrote: »

Another test (in the absence of LeafSpy) is see what readings it gives when you, for instance, flick on your kettle. Your kettle will have its kW rating at the bottom so it should roughly match.

I wouldn't trust what it says on the bottom of the (cheapo) kettle, but I'll try it with some other appliance.

Dardania

n97 mini wrote: »

KCross wrote: »

What make monitor is it?
Does it have any config settings for voltage?

It's one of these:
http://efergy.com/uk/elite-classic

Voltage is set for 230.

KCross wrote: »

Another test (in the absence of LeafSpy) is see what readings it gives when you, for instance, flick on your kettle. Your kettle will have its kW rating at the bottom so it should roughly match.

I wouldn't trust what it says on the bottom of the (cheapo) kettle, but I'll try it with some other appliance.

Can you read what your actual voltage is, when charging? I'm trying to think of a responsible and safe way to do this - multimeter prongs in a nearby switched socket? You hardly have a monitor-able UPS at home that you can log on to?

n97 mini

Dardania wrote: »

Can you read what your actual voltage is, when charging? I'm trying to think of a responsible and safe way to do this - multimeter prongs in a nearby switched socket? You hardly have a monitor-able UPS at home that you can log on to?

I have a plug-in energy monitor that I can try later. That's about as good as I can do.

n97 mini

waynegalway wrote: »

Does this one look like just a black version of the same device to you? Does the price tally with around what you paid?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01CG0XWDI/ref=s9_acsd_hps_bw_c_x_1_w

^ That's the same description as the one I bought, which died after 2 weeks.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01C55RY4W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Dardania

n97 mini wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

Can you read what your actual voltage is, when charging? I'm trying to think of a responsible and safe way to do this - multimeter prongs in a nearby switched socket? You hardly have a monitor-able UPS at home that you can log on to?

I have a plug-in energy monitor that I can try later. That's about as good as I can do.

even better. your voltage should drop when you're under load - use that to calculate the kW draw by the leaf. If your CT can give you the actual current, you could do a rough calc of power = voltage x current - do they leaf power supplies operate with power factor correction built in? It's effectively half a VSD, so there shouldn't be any power factor to care about?

NIMAN

I bought a wireless monitor from eBay, and got it set up yesterday.

Last night when my Leaf was charging, it was reading 5.2kw, and that was at midnight, when nearly everything else was switched off and I was about to head to bed. I expected it to be higher, considering the 6.6kw charger.

This morning I set the remote heating to come on, and it went to 3.3kw, again most things in the house were off, bar the odd radio and light. The car was fully charged during the night.

waynegalway

NIMAN wrote: »

I bought a wireless monitor from eBay, and got it set up yesterday.

Last night when my Leaf was charging, it was reading 5.2kw, and that was at midnight, when nearly everything else was switched off and I was about to head to bed. I expected it to be higher, considering the 6.6kw charger.

This morning I set the remote heating to come on, and it went to 3.3kw, again most things in the house were off, bar the odd radio and light. The car was fully charged during the night.

Is it possible the rate of charge went down because the batteries were almost full?

NIMAN

You may be right, it was at 49% charge to start with. I was only topping up.

Probably the reason.

waynegalway

NIMAN wrote: »

You may be right, it was at 49% charge to start with. I was only topping up.

Probably the reason.

Yeah, I'd say the best way to double check you're getting around the 6.6kw would be to run the battery down low(ish), maybe to about 25-30%, then plug it in and see what the monitor says.

If the car was fully charged over night, then it will only pull what it needs to warm up the car in the morning, plus a bit more to keep the battery topped up, hence you're seeing about 3kw for the pre-heat.

KCross

You should see the full 6.6kW for almost all the charge cycle.... I think it only tapers down for the last few percent.

NIMAN

KCross wrote: »

You should see the full 6.6kW for almost all the charge cycle.... I think it only tapers down for the last few percent.

Well mine didn't, it was pulling 5.2kw when the battery was just over half full.

Could tartrate an issue with my charge point?

KCross

NIMAN wrote: »

Well mine didn't, it was pulling 5.2kw when the battery was just over half full.

Could tartrate an issue with my charge point?

My guess is the monitor is wrong.

Do you have to enter the voltage on the monitor anywhere?

If you could get LeafSpy working you cross check against that. I find LeafSpy is quite accurate.

NIMAN

No, nothing entered on monitor except hourly rate, day and night rate etc.

NIMAN

Update:

Plugged in car last night, think it had around 25% on the battery.

It was pulling 6.9kw this time.

waynegalway

NIMAN wrote: »

Update:

Plugged in car last night, think it had around 25% on the battery.

It was pulling 6.9kw this time.

Good to hear.

I suppose in theory (32amps times 220v) it should be just over 7kw, but given losses and the rating of the onboard charger, 6.9kw sounds about right. If anything, it’s high, given the 6.6 rating of the charger, but I guess there are inaccuracies along the way.

Anyway, sounds like it’s doing what you were expecting it to do.

goz83

NIMAN wrote: »

Update:

Plugged in car last night, think it had around 25% on the battery.

It was pulling 6.9kw this time.

Can you link me to the device you bought?

I'm feeling tech envy since I ordered the EVO32 for the inlaws.

NIMAN

goz83 wrote: »

Can you link me to the device you bought?

I'm feeling tech envy since I ordered the EVO32 for the inlaws.

This is the one I bought, can't see any more of the same type for sale
It's branded Southern Electric.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F351988974446


One even cheaper from the same seller

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/232283874656