N24 - Cahir to Waterford [design and planning underway]

marno21

TII have created this new scheme in their 2018 allocations.

This is a massive scheme, which will include the previous Cahir-Rathkeevin, Clonmel bypass, Carrick on Suir and Mooncoin bypasses, so 4 schemes bundled into one.

Scheme will be 2+2 with perhaps Type 1 DC closer to Waterford

Cahir-Limerick Junction has also been reactivated, meaning full DC all the way from Limerick Junction to Waterford.

Jayuu

Not that I'm doubting you all at all on this but is there a press release? I couldn't find anything on the TII site that mentions the N24.

Harry Palmr

So Clonmels bypass will be bypassed finally!

marno21

Jayuu wrote: »

Not that I'm doubting you all at all on this but is there a press release? I couldn't find anything on the TII site that mentions the N24.

http://www.tii.ie/tii-library/reports-accounts/tii-allocations-2018/2018NAT_KilkennyCoCo.pdf

All "pipeline" schemes reactivated by TII got 25k, which will take them through 2018. Funding won't be available until the current batch of projects is done, but will likely be in the new Capital Plan being published in 2018

Jayuu

marno21 wrote: »

http://www.tii.ie/tii-library/reports-accounts/tii-allocations-2018/2018NAT_KilkennyCoCo.pdf

All "pipeline" schemes reactivated by TII got 25k, which will take them through 2018. Funding won't be available until the current batch of projects is done, but will likely be in the new Capital Plan being published in 2018

Cheers. I imagine it will be a few years before these actually get underway but good to know that it's finally back on the schedule.

marno21

Jayuu wrote: »

Cheers. I imagine it will be a few years before these actually get underway but good to know that it's finally back on the schedule.

This is it.

The time between now and construction will have to be put down anyway so the sooner we start the planning work the sooner we get on the ground.

JCX BXC

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/new-bypass-will-reduce-traffic-flow-in-clonmel-1.188466

I don't remember a time when Clonmel didn't have a bypass (Wouldn't have been down that part of the country pre 1999!), but it hurts to think about the traffic nightmare that Clonmel would have been before the opening of the bypass!

marno21

JCX BXC wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/new-bypass-will-reduce-traffic-flow-in-clonmel-1.188466

I don't remember a time when Clonmel didn't have a bypass (Wouldn't have been down that part of the country pre 1999!), but it hurts to think about the traffic nightmare that Clonmel would have been before the opening of the bypass!

Funny how back then it was a £13m bypass with 2 bridges and 5 (now 6...) roundabouts over 9km. Now we are looking at 90km of dual carriageway costing likely around €700m.

And then you realise that 10 years ago, 10 years after it opened there was a plan to build 125km of dual carriageway. Some change that.

JohnC.

Would planning be starting from scratch or would they be basically reactivating last decade's plan for the Mooncoin bypass?

I take it from the OP that the much derided 2+1 Piltown bypass will be upgraded too?

Middle Man

JohnC. wrote: »

Would planning be starting from scratch or would they be basically reactivating last decade's plan for the Mooncoin bypass?

I take it from the OP that the much derided 2+1 Piltown bypass will be upgraded too?

I think it will be from scratch - probably Type 2 Dual most of the way (2+1 will form no part I guess) with perhaps a section or 2 of Type 1 Dual.

marno21

JohnC. wrote: »

Would planning be starting from scratch or would they be basically reactivating last decade's plan for the Mooncoin bypass?

I take it from the OP that the much derided 2+1 Piltown bypass will be upgraded too?

This isn't clear yet. They will use as much of the work done before as possible and the rest from scratch.

Road standard will likely be 2+2/Type 1 from Cahir to Mooncoin and Type 1 from Mooncoin to the Grannagh Interchange.

I don't think we'll be seeing an M24 from Mooncoin-Grannagh but I wouldn't entirely rule it out.

steeler j

a terrible week on this road, prays for everyone involved

Bards

Yep, unfortunately 2 x fatalities in 2 x seperate accidents on this treacherous National Primary Route linking Ireland's third and fifth Cities... Sooner its upgraded the better

marno21

Shane Ross can talk about speeding and drink driving until his teeth fall out but until the main routes in Ireland are no longer glorified boreens the number of road deaths will not be dropping too fast.

RIP to the two people involved.

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

Shane Ross can talk about speeding and drink driving until his teeth fall out but until the main routes in Ireland are no longer glorified boreens the number of road deaths will not be dropping too fast.

RIP to the two people involved.

Ireland doesn’t exist past the M50 in Ross’s mind. He’s up there as one of the worst ministers I can remember. He has zero interest in his portfolio.

steeler j

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Ireland doesn’t exist past the M50 in Ross’s mind. He’s up there as one of the worst ministers I can remember. He has zero interest in his portfolio.

spot on

steeler j

another accident outside Clonmel ,hope it's not to bad and everyoneis ok

Marcusm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Ireland doesn’t exist past the M50 in Ross’s mind. He’s up there as one of the worst ministers I can remember. He has zero interest in his portfolio.

Ah, that’s Not fair; shurr doesn’t he live a couple of miles outside the M50. I’m sure that he’ll be fully engaged some (little) distance outside the M50 ;-)

fricatus

Marcusm wrote: »

Ah, that’s Not fair; shurr doesn’t he live a couple of miles outside the M50. I’m sure that he’ll be fully engaged some (little) distance outside the M50 ;-)

Yes, like Stepaside Garda Station. You’d swear there wasn’t one in Sandyford. He’s as parochial as any of the Healy Raes.

annfield1978

Couple of months away from coming out to consultants for tender

steeler j

Traffic counters put in this week ,is this something to do with the upgrade project

touts

steeler j wrote: »

Traffic counters put in this week ,is this something to do with the upgrade project

I've probably seen counters along the N24 5 or 6 times over the last 10 years. If they are still counting the traffic and doing surveys and looking at options that means we are no closer to an actual upgrade than we were 10 years ago.

marno21

Arup appointed for Phases 1-4

https://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/561125/design-consultants-team-appointed-to-n24-project-through-kilkenny.html

touts

marno21 wrote: »

Arup appointed for Phases 1-4

https://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/561125/design-consultants-team-appointed-to-n24-project-through-kilkenny.html

It must be 30 years since this was first proposed (certainly was an issue in the 1990s). Now only at pre-planning and design stage. Arup will make several million off of this but it is unlikely that a sod will be turned for another 30+ years (not on the plan up to 2040 and assuming that runs late the M24 won't get beyond this current pre-planning and design stage until mid 2040s which means no actual construction will commence until 2050s at the earliest).

spacetweek

touts wrote: »

....but it is unlikely that a sod will be turned for another 30+ years (not on the plan up to 2040 and assuming that runs late the M24 won't get beyond this current pre-planning and design stage until mid 2040s which means no actual construction will commence until 2050s at the earliest).

Now, the fact that it's not on the plan up to 2040 means nothing. The Gov rejig the projects and their order every 5 years so anything could happen.
That said I think there are many other priority projects before 2030 so I'd see this happening in the early 2030s myself.

Harry Palmr

I'll celebrate my licence renewal at 70 by driving on the new N24

marno21

1.8km of this scheme is being done in advance to correct issues along the N24 Piltown bypass in Co. Kilkenny. Involves grade separation of a junction, and widening the existing mainline from 2+1 to 2+2

https://www.tipperarylive.ie/news/motoring/567028/an-bord-pleanala-approve-compulsory-purchase-order-on-main-tipperary-road.html

JohnC.

That's great, but I'm a little confused as to what's happening. What's this compact grade separated junction? I had heard, again very recently, they were putting a roundabout in there. But grade separated sounds better, and presumably would be better for potential future road upgrades.

BelfastVanMan

JohnC. wrote: »

That's great, but I'm a little confused as to what's happening. What's this compact grade separated junction? I had heard, again very recently, they were putting a roundabout in there. But grade separated sounds better, and presumably would be better for potential future road upgrades.

They were maybe referring to the little roundabout that will be on the new junction, beside the mainline, i.e. a compact grade-seperated junction.

JohnC.

I see what they're doing now. Managed to find drawings

https://consult.kilkenny.ie/en/consultation/part-8-consultation-n24-tower-road-junction-improvement-scheme

marno21

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/179082/1/0

Tender out for LIDAR and Orthophotography surveys of the route

marno21

Tender out for traffic surveys for this project.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/179698/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

steeler j

The preferred route by Q3 2022 ,not much word on this scheme it's quiet and that is the only information I have been able to get

marno21

Tender out for ground investigations for this and the other N24 project

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/185337/1/0

steeler j

Constraints study public consultation starting online on Tuesday the 4th of May

marno21

Scheme website launched @ https://n24waterford2cahir.ie/

As above, public consultation on constraints study to commence on Tuesday.

Preferred route to be selected by Q1 2023.

nordydan

This may have been mentioned before but would there be any advantage in combining the Cahir to Waterford and N25 Waterford to New Ross into something like the attached?

It appears simplistic but wouldn't it speed up Dublin (West) to New Ross, Dublin to Cahir and Wexford/Rosslare to Limerick?

The gradient is not steep and the traffic from Waterford outbound to Dublin Tipp isnt that heavy so combining the data flows would not be a major issue (some traffic from Wexford would avoid Waterford completely).

Anyway just a thought!

KrisW1001

In real life, those "empty" parts of the map are occupied by mountains. It would be enormously expensive to build the road that way.

Apart from that, to the west of Mullinavat, that routing would serve nobody. Any N24 has to provide for travel between the south Kilkenny towns along the north bank of the Suir, and this is just too far from them.

Similarly, spending lots of money to connect Wexford more directly to Limerick while making the journey longer to Waterford, the actual population centre in the region, is not a good use of funds.

There's some merit to the N25-M8 section, but it's way too expensive; there's very little to continuing due west of it.

davidk1394

I attached a link for the constraints study if anyone wants to make a submission. I made submission earlier.

https://n24waterford2cahir.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Feedback-Form-English.pdf

JohnC.

A survey notice was sent out

https://i.imgur.com/NIUcOVT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/m7E4NsU.jpg

steeler j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117729703#Comment_117729703

I got them back in March for the other N24 scheme , haven't heard anything since .

Gael23

Tipperary town is the problem though, doesn’t look like this proposal will help there.

BelfastVanMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117800782#Comment_117800782

Is that not part of the other N24 project?

KrisW1001

Yes. There’s a separate scheme from Cahir to Limerick Junction on N24 that’s further along the planning process than this one.

Waterford-Cahir has had some work done on it over the past 20 years - a particularly lethal section around Piltown was realigned as part of the N24 Piltown-Fiddown project in 2005. That is now an 11km stretch of 2+1 road.

I was on the Piltown 2+1 just last week. Pretty good road I thought. Now to bypass carrick on suir.

Gael23

That 2+1 was a design I could never understand.

Dodnt realise there were 2 separate projects ongoing but I think once Tipp Town is dealt with a lot of problems will be solved

KrisW1001

This was one of the trial schemes for 2+1, and I think it’s pretty successful here. N24 really doesn’t get a lot of traffic here (or anywhere outside of Clonmel really), so it was well within the limits of a 2+1 design. As this was a new alignment, the ability to locate the junctions in the most sensible places along the mainline helped a lot too. This is pretty much the situations where the design is used in Sweden.

I think the bad reputation of 2+1 is really due to the N20 retrofit: there was no relocation of junctions, it carries far too much traffic, and it’s filled with harried commuters who’re desperately trying to overtake by the end of every 2-lane section.

JohnC.

The Piltown 2+1 is being redone, it's not so successful. There's been a lot of crashes, several fatal, particularly at the junction at Piltown itself.

steeler j

Route options to be shown in November for this scheme

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117803044#Comment_117803044

That Piltown junction is mad, I only experienced it recently for the first time. It reminds me of dental braces, the amount of structure on the road.

steeler j

Route options announcement has been postponed until January 2022 now