Selling an uninsured car

DrPhilG

Long story short, my dad had a stroke and wound up incapacitated, hence I have the job of selling his car.

Problem is his insurance has lapsed. So if I understand it correctly anyone coming to test drive the car would be doing so illegally (their problem) but also if they crashed or stole the car it wouldn't be covered (my problem).

Is there any way around this?

Atlantic Dawn

Yes this is generally the way any private sale is unless the car has open drive insurance.

You should ask to see the buyers insurance cert to see it gives cover for driving other cars, generally this is only 3rd party cover.

DrPhilG

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Yes this is generally the way any private sale is unless the car has open drive insurance.

You should ask to see the buyers insurance cert to see it gives cover for driving other cars, generally this is only 3rd party cover.

Yeah that's what I feared. It means the car itself is completely uninsured which means I'm taking a huge risk by offering test drives.

And my own experience is that my insurance only covered me to drive his car provided he had valid fully comp insurance. Now that his insurance has expired, I can't drive the car.

Even if their insurance did cover them 3rd party to test it, if they wrap it around a tree it's gone. Wouldn't be that bad if it was a banger but it's a 2 year old car worth about €12k.

quadrifoglio verde

DrPhilG wrote: »

Yeah that's what I feared. It means the car itself is completely uninsured which means I'm taking a huge risk by offering test drives.

Even if their insurance covers them 3rd party to test it, if they wrap it around a tree it's gone. Wouldn't be that bad if it was a banger but it's a 2 year old car worth about €12k.

You could insure it yourself and cancel the policy within the cooling off period provided it's sold within that time.

Although at 2 years old I'd sell it to a garage. Absolute nightmare selling newer cars privately

DrPhilG

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Although at 2 years old I'd sell it to a garage. Absolute nightmare selling newer cars privately

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Contacted the garage he bought from but haven't heard back yet.

kerten

What kind of car is it ?

You can ask a dealer to sell it in behalf of you for a commission as well.

DrPhilG

kerten wrote: »

What kind of car is it ?

You can ask a dealer to sell it in behalf of you for a commission as well.

Dacia Sandero

kneemos

DrPhilG wrote: »

Dacia Sandero

Hardly worth 12 grand or anything like it.

rex-x

DrPhilG wrote: »

Yeah that's what I feared. It means the car itself is completely uninsured which means I'm taking a huge risk by offering test drives.

And my own experience is that my insurance only covered me to drive his car provided he had valid fully comp insurance. Now that his insurance has expired, I can't drive the car.

Even if their insurance did cover them 3rd party to test it, if they wrap it around a tree it's gone. Wouldn't be that bad if it was a banger but it's a 2 year old car worth about €12k.

There is no requirement the car be insured for 3rd party extension to apply with 99% of insurers, its a common myth thats spread around.

DrPhilG

kneemos wrote: »

Hardly worth 12 grand or anything like it.

Probably not now in fairness, I had it valued by a friend who is a dealer but that was a few months ago. I'd have asked him if he was interested but he's a specialist EV dealer and only takes the occasional non-ev car as trade so it wouldn't be of interest to him.

Now we're into the 181 stage it will be less.

But similar age of the same car with similar mileage were listed online at around €12.5k privately and up to €14k with dealers as of November last year.

Point remains the same, its far too high a value to be risking via uninsured test drives.

DrPhilG

rex-x wrote: »

There is no requirement the car be insured for 3rd party extension to apply with 99% of insurers, its a common myth thats spread around.

I'm with RSA via 123.ie and that's what they told me directly. They are a pack of scumbags though so wouldn't put it past them to lie. Haven't checked the actual policy.

Atlantic Dawn

Your problem is that the potential buyer isn't going to buy it if they can't drive it first. Perhaps there's an industrial estate or business park near you that you could drive it to for test drives outside work hours when it's quiet, potentially less risk. The base model Sandero starts at €10,690 brand new, that's what your up against.

DrPhilG

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The base model Sandero starts at €10,690 brand new, that's what your up against.

His was about €16k.

Atlantic Dawn

DrPhilG wrote: »

His was about €16k.

Yes it's a big risk, car could be wrote off with not much of a crash. Max I have sold in the past private was about €4k worth and even that I was concerned about the driving style of the first person who took it out.

kneemos

Not many will have 12 grand cash. Most folk would be financing at that price.

DrPhilG

Yeah it's a pain.

Pales into insignificance in the bigger picture of what has happened but it's just another thing that needs sorted out.

I'll see what comes from the few dealers I emailed today.

PS his is a Dacia Sandero Stepway if that makes much difference on comparisons.

Miike

DrPhilG wrote: »

I'm with RSA via 123.ie and that's what they told me directly. They are a pack of scumbags though so wouldn't put it past them to lie. Haven't checked the actual policy.

I renewed with them this year moving from Liberty. 1.2k cheaper than my other cheapest quote, paid €900. Mind me asking why they're scum bags? I found them very very strange to deal with. Very wishy washy.

DrPhilG

Miike wrote: »

I renewed with them this year moving from Liberty. 1.2k cheaper than my other cheapest quote, paid €900. Mind me asking why they're scum bags? I found them very very strange to deal with. Very wishy washy.

Well it's not so much them who are scumbags, but the industry in general.

RSA trebled my insurance over the past 3 years. They have me over a barrel because I'm tied to them due to a claim a few years back.

NIMAN

Sorry to hear about your Dad Phil.

I'm sure you've enough problems and concerns at present without the car to worry about.

Hope he gets better soon.

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

I'm with RSA via 123.ie and that's what they told me directly. They are a pack of scumbags though so wouldn't put it past them to lie. Haven't checked the actual policy.

They probably don't understand your question, I'm with 123 and nowhere in any documentation does it state the other car must be insured. I'd rely on documentation over some half clueless person on the phone.

DrPhilG

NIMAN wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your Dad Phil.

I'm sure you've enough problems and concerns at present without the car to worry about.

Hope he gets better soon.

I'm afraid he isn't getting better. It's a long slow downhill most likely. His paralysis is permanent and he is fully dependent on nursing care for everything.

It happened in July so that's why I'm only getting around to sorting out the car now. Been a bit of a whirlwind up until November or so.

DrPhilG

Elsie Mealy Heart wrote: »

They probably don't understand your question, I'm with 123 and nowhere in any documentation does it state the other car must be insured. I'd rely on documentation over some half clueless person on the phone.

My question was pretty straight forward.

"Am I covered to drive other cars"?

"Yes, but only if the car you intend to drive is insured by the owner".

copeyhagen

is they test drive it, then theyre using their own insurance. - cash in hand before test drive. simples.

DrPhilG

copeyhagen wrote: »

is they test drive it, then theyre using their own insurance. - cash in hand before test drive. simples.

Here's the key, go for a test drive. Oh and by the way could you leave a €10k cash deposit please, thanks.

Can see that going well!

dr.fuzzenstein

DrPhilG wrote: »

Here's the key, go for a test drive. Oh and by the way could you leave a €10k cash deposit please, thanks.

Can see that going well!

You just have to situplate it in the ad.

""No cash no drive"

You could even add:
"No dreamers, window lickers, tire kickers, test pilots and time waisters (sic), I'm not lonely, so not looking for a chat"

and of course

'just testing de waters, not pushed on selling".



But seriously, it is a minefield. Insurance in Ireland is designed for a driver to be insured on a car and not for anyone to drive a car that isn't theirs.
Strictly speaking, no insurance, no drive. End of.
If anything happens, it would be a sh*t storm.
When I bought cars in the past, I would ring my insurance company and they could transfer my insurance, or the other person is allowed to drive other cars even if they have no insurance. But bear in mind that's often 3rd party only.
Of course the other person could say "Of course I'm insured", even though they're not, what is the implication then? I honestly don't know.
Or do a test drive on private property.

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

My question was pretty straight forward.

"Am I covered to drive other cars"?

"Yes, but only if the car you intend to drive is insured by the owner".

I would not take anything as gospel said over the phone, as I said I go by whats in policy documents not what someone says over the ophone who may be under the impression that the myth of needing the other car to be insured is true.

copeyhagen wrote: »

is they test drive it, then theyre using their own insurance. - cash in hand before test drive. simples.

I've never expected nor been expected to hand over a cent before a test drive nor have I asked or been asked anything about insurance.

copeyhagen

sold literally about 40 cars over the years, anything worth any real money I stated in the add I wanted the cash in my hand to hold while they drive. lots of people have done so no bother. even on cheaper cars very often they would hand you the cash to hold without it being mentioned beforehand. I know I have also done it buying cars.

copeyhagen

Elsie Mealy Heart wrote: »

I've never expected nor been expected to hand over a cent before a text drive nor have I asked or been asked anything about insurance.

and if you wrote a car off on a test drive, you would just walk away and let the owner worry about it?

copeyhagen

copeyhagen wrote: »

and if you wrote a car off on a test drive, you would just walk away and let the owner worry about it?

I just wouldn't write a car off on a test drive, solves any issues before they start.

Also I've always been insured to drive using my 3rd party extension, I was just never asked. yes it doesn't cover their car but I can legally drive and same for people test driving my cars, well they may not have even been insured but the chances are so so slim of anything happening on a few mins of a test drive that its not worth worrying about.

I wouldn't even have cash/bank draft etc with me on the first test drive as I would never buy a car without sleeping on it. I'd return, text drive again and then decide if I'm handing over money or not. No way I'd hand over a cent until I was fully committed to buying.