Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

Can you keep your responses to people and topics being discussed here, as they don't know what you have read online in other places.

MJohnston

jacothelad wrote: »

I'm not talking about what people on here think, I'm talking about the mob mentality outside here. The only verbal flatulence is yours. Trial by screeching harridans and uninformed fools is a dangerous route to support.

So now that you've gotten that off your chest (you edited to add that, seriously?) can I ask you outright, what do you think of the language in those messages?

joseywhales

Buer wrote: »

If they terminate a contract on the basis of messages, they've to act on Gilroy too.

If they terminate a contract on the basis of what they consider distasteful behaviour with a woman involving multiple people present, they could open a whole other can of worms in relation to previously well publicised incidents involving others.

If I was Jackson, one of the first things I'd be asking would be where was the investigations a few years back when another incident took place with two Irish stars and multiple people in the room which led to some distasteful WhatsApp messages being sent out and well publicised.

Deleted, point is are whatsapp messages not case details?

prawnsambo

joseywhales wrote: »

Deleted, point is are whatsapp messages not case details?

The word 'if' seems to have escaped your attention.

Brewster

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd find it almost impossible to believe, personally, that they were not aware of it.

I am sure this will be probed during review. I think it’s an important consideration. Personally, I don’t believe Olding and Jackson were necessarily aware of the FULL picture at the time of sending messages the next day. If they were aware, if certainly changes the context of the whole situation in my view.

joseywhales

prawnsambo wrote: »

joseywhales wrote: »

Deleted, point is are whatsapp messages not case details?

The word 'if' seems to have escaped your attention.

Well there's three different if scenarios, so its difficult to encompass.
#1 that if scenario, gilroy must also be sanctioned, I think that is not the case.
#2 they can consider this scenario distasteful and the other one not distasteful

#3 I don't know what it could be like to posses Buer possessing Paddy jackson, maybe I would eat different exotic foods, see what the change of perception is like.

foxyladyxx

Brewster wrote: »

I am sure this will be probed during review. I think it’s an important consideration. Personally, I don’t believe Olding and Jackson were necessarily aware of the FULL picture at the time of sending messages the next day. If they were aware, if certainly changes the context of the whole situation in my view.

I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt due to the amount of alochol consumed. and I know that is not an offence.

I am though extremely annoyed at Jackson though for his laddish behaviour while being employed by the IRFU. He should have behaved with more decorum and more maturity.

He has been a huge loss to the Irish squad. He was the only worthy replacement for Sexton.

For PR purposes he possibly should have apologised as Olding did and he should NOT have threatened to sue.

A couple of years away in Australia may have left the door open for him to return. .Sadly that seems to be now out of the question.

I feel very angry about the whole situation.

launish116

I don't know to laugh or cry anymore! Dread to think what's gonna crop up next! how are we gonna attract a new coach or any decent players at this rate. Really have gone to the dogs.

Yeah_Right

I was looking at a couple of my Whatsap groups. An outsider could look those messages and pictures and think we were a bunch of racist, homophobic, xenophobic, sexist, misogynistic, classist, perverted, juvenile pricks. We're not. Well mostly ðŸ˜႒ We're a diverse group from different countries, backgrounds, careers religions etc. and we are basically taking the piss out of each other 90% of the time.

My GF said similar about some of her groups. An outsider could think they were sex and clothes obsessed sluts who hate their children, sisters, workmates, partners etc.

Whatsap groups are for group members not for public consumption.

Burkie1203

launish116 wrote: »

I don't know to laugh or cry anymore! Dread to think what's gonna crop up next! how are we gonna attract a new coach or any decent players at this rate. Really have gone to the dogs.

Just hope the mob in Twitter don't go after Best and Henderson.


Back to the rugby. Any Ulster fan going to the game this week. Bring your boots. You may get a chance to live the dream

stl.ire

Augme wrote: »

Not really. They are both very young. I honestly think if they leave for abroad now and came back in 2-3 years time there would not be such a big issue about it.

I really doubt this tbh. Once gone they will be gone for good.

Not only would it risk public backlash again but the media love this story so there’s no way the IRFU ever hand them another contract. Look at how Grobler got treated for something they all thought had blown over with time. Just imagine the “heart-felt” thinkpieces certain journos would roll out about “role models” and the “soul of rugby”.

That’s before you even take into account the fact that Ulster’s upper management are easily the most petty boys club of all the provinces.

Right or wrong it won’t happen

Stheno

mobile.twitter.com/cgilroy14/status/98128954227889

mfceiling

MJohnston wrote: »

So now that you've gotten that off your chest (you edited to add that, seriously?) can I ask you outright, what do you think of the language in those messages?

He said

"I haven't seen many people making excuses for the crass and repulsive language"

Pretty clear from reading a few of Jaco's other posts on the language used that he found it immature, horrible and filthy.

MJohnston

Stheno wrote: »

mobile.twitter.com/cgilroy14/status/98128954227889

What was it?

Hurrache

bilston wrote: »

I don't really know what to say MJohnston. I realise you are really upset (not sure that's the right word) about this, and I understand it, but these are guys in their early 20s. You surely can't be that shocked by these WhatsApp messages???

I'm far from a prude or hung around in prude circles, but in my 20s none of my circle spoke about women we may have been with in such a manner.

Their problem is the messages became public and the IRFU and Ulster Rugby need to be seen to review the situation.

Stheno

MJohnston wrote: »

What was it?

Apology from Craig for the message he sent and how it didnt reflect his or Ulster Rugby values

bilston

MJohnston wrote: »

Stheno wrote: »

mobile.twitter.com/cgilroy14/status/98128954227889

What was it?

He's apologised

prawnsambo

Stheno wrote: »

mobile.twitter.com/cgilroy14/status/98128954227889

That's not a link.

Let me fix it for you.

mfceiling

Won't matter to some that he has apologised for his language on a "private" whatsapp message.

damianmcr

Apology is the perfect response and no further action needed IMO.

People who were out to get him should accept it and move on.

The Black Stags

mfceiling wrote: »

Won't matter to some that he has apologised for his language on a "private" whatsapp message.

Seems like there are people on a crusade to destroy the lives of young men over private messages. They should be bloody ashamed of themselves. BOTH sides.

prawnsambo

mfceiling wrote: »

Won't matter to some that he has apologised for his language on a "private" whatsapp message.

It was intended to be private. But it ended up public. It still staggers me that people don't realise that where the internet is concerned, the potential is always there for stuff to get out into the public domain. And that includes messaging of any kind. People have sent emails to the wrong person by mistake.

mfceiling

mfceiling wrote: »

Won't matter to some that he has apologised for his language on a "private" whatsapp message.

He could have apologised before Ulster Rugby began investigating him. Apologising after someone tells you you're in trouble isn't really worth anything. I'm not arguing that he has something to apologise for, but people seem desperately biased on here. "Oh look, a token apology, that makes everything ok".

On the other hand, Olding's humble statement of contrition after the trial vs Jackson's "I'LL SUE YOU ALL" means one came across very differently from the other. I would be ok with Olding playing rugby for an Irish province, I would not be ok with Jackson doing so.

I wish people would stop talking about "private", it's a red herring. The fact that a message was intended to be private is irrelevant as soon as it becomes public. It isn't a defense that "I only have these views in private because I know people would find it distasteful if I espoused them in public".

"Hey, I'm only a homophobe in private. I'm always nice to their faces" .... people think that's a justification?

damianmcr

I can't understand how people think its not OK for Jackson to sue.

Rapist is suing OMG he should just be happy with it now.

I've seen that crap online.

A possible scenario no matter how odd is he genuinely is innocent and has a right to do as he pleases.

I mean odd for those looking him sent to hell.

damianmcr

damianmcr wrote: »

I can't understand how people think its not OK for Jackson to sue.

Rapist is suing OMG he should just be happy with it now.

I've seen that crap online.

A possible scenario no matter how odd is he genuinely is innocent and has a right to do as he pleases.

I mean odd for those looking him sent to hell.

He's legally entitled to do everything he's legally entitled to, I never said or implied otherwise.

I stated that their differing post-trial responses altered my perceptions after, and my preference of Jackson/Olding never playing for an Irish club again changed to being one ok with Olding playing in Ireland again.

The short of it is, how players (or people) react does make a difference regardless of the outcome of a trial or disciplinary process.

There is an unfortunate tendency of people when discussing anything connected to the trial to reply to specific posts, but for their entire argument to be aimed at a mysterious cabal of 'internet people' rather than the poster they're directly replying to. It's kind of sad, and you're doing it.

prawnsambo

damianmcr wrote: »

I can't understand how people think its not OK for Jackson to sue.

Rapist is suing OMG he should just be happy with it now.

I've seen that crap online.

A possible scenario no matter how odd is he genuinely is innocent and has a right to do as he pleases.

I mean odd for those looking him sent to hell.

It's ok for him to sue. So let him get on with it. If he's just threatening to sue in order to bully people into silence, that's not ok.

Bridge93

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's ok for him to sue. So let him get on with it. If he's just threatening to sue in order to bully people into silence, that's not ok.

If people aren't saying anything libellous then they have nothing to worry about regarding threats of action.

prawnsambo

Bridge93 wrote: »

If people aren't saying anything libellous then they have nothing to worry about regarding threats of action.

Indeed. Does that mean they should be threatened?

bilston

prawnsambo wrote: »

damianmcr wrote: »

I can't understand how people think its not OK for Jackson to sue.

Rapist is suing OMG he should just be happy with it now.

I've seen that crap online.

A possible scenario no matter how odd is he genuinely is innocent and has a right to do as he pleases.

I mean odd for those looking him sent to hell.

It's ok for him to sue. So let him get on with it. If he's just threatening to sue in order to bully people into silence, that's not ok.

Is it ok for people to call him a rapist on Twitter?

Genuine question.

Can you call people stuff like that?

Bridge93

prawnsambo wrote: »

Indeed. Does that mean they should be threatened?

But is he threatening those who haven't crossed a line? Or those making defamatory claims?