"That's my parking spac

Bananaleaf

Hi all - feeling a little irate over this and am looking for some clarity and advice if you guys would be so kind

Live in an estate where there is - what I believe to be - communal parking outside our row of houses.
No numbers assigned to the spaces and nothing to even state that the spaces are private property and are exclusively for our row of houses.

This evening I parked in one of the spaces and a guy came from his home to inform me that this space was his, as was the one beside it and while he wasn't currently occupying it, someone would be along in an hr or so and it needed to be free for them.

I must add that the man was extremely polite. I asked him if indeed there is assigned parking, to which he replied "that's what we were told". I assume he means by a landlord.

I expressed my doubt about the assigned parking, but as there were other spaces I agreed to move.

I'm looking for advice on how to deal with this in the future though.

We just moved into the area, so we don't yet know the lie of the land. Once we get talking to our next door neighbor again I will ask her if there is an agreement re: parking. I have a feeling that she won't know though.

My plan is to avoid this guys 'parking spaces' and just park somewhere else, but a part of me (maybe a childish part) feels a bit p¡ssed off with having to do that - feels a bit like I allowing others to push me around.

What would you do in this situation? I want to do nothing really and just find somewhere else to park, seems the easiest solution, but I feel like if it becomes a bigger problem later on down the line (like, say there are never available parking spaces in 2yrs time or so, save the one this guy is keeping back for his wife or friend) then I'm in a much harier place cause I didn't clear the air and establish an understanding right from day one.

Any advice greatly appreciated

the_syco

Two possible scenarios;
Their landlord rented the place out with the two parking spaces included, even though they actually have no right to it.
The parking spot is somehow linked to the property.

I doubt it's the latter. My money is on the former, and the guy who rented the house was told those spots are for them. Count the houses, and count the spots, and I doubt there'll be even one spot per house.

What did your landlord say to you when you rented the place?

Sam Quentin

I don't think you have given enough information on exact location of spaces, number of spaces and number of houses.
If he was being totally unreasonable!? Then I feel you would have let him know.
You don't seem sure, so I'd assume it's not as clear cut as most parking spaces in front of houses in terraced, semi detached estates etc..
In a lot of these 'new' estates it's pretty obvious what's what and who parks were. Even if it's just gentlemans agreement as such..
So he's either out of line or not!?
Certainly don't let him take a space that is quite obviously in front of your house.
That situation would be a huge cause of concern and annoyance leading to untold frustration and misery. Possibly leading to confrontation.

judeboy101

I'd wager a quick look on planning section of county council would show that there are no parking spots assigned in the submitted plans. How you play it is up to you.

Lumen

Use this as an opportunity to knock on doors and meet a few of your neighbours.

dudara

Is there a management company for your estate? They will know if spaces are assigned or not.

Lantus

A communal parking zone where there is a path after the spaces and then the house, is generally never privately owned.

Dedicated parking will be a driveway inside a property boundary or numbered with a lock which is uncommon in Ireland but more common in UK.

This is likley just a bank of spaces allocated for a group of properties. The typical allowance is 1.5 cars per property based on normal planning rules.

Anyone can park there but the management company will likley own this common area and provide guidance and rules on its use.

There will likley be some understanding on who uses which spaces for each property by all owners but you cannot claim any particular spot is yours unless the lease states such.

listermint

What's .5 of a car

mfceiling

listermint wrote: »

What's .5 of a car

Half a car.

myshirt

Quite unlikely that the spaces are tied to any house, especially if there is a public footpath right between the spaces and the doors of the houses. I've seen many of these done by solicitors and the spaces are not allocated. People get angry about that sometimes, but this is reflected in the price of the house, go buy one with a driveway if you've a problem.

You made a mistake by moving your car, but I can understand why you did. You were new to the area and you were caught flat footed. Have a look at the planning file on the council website and see if the drawings can tell you anything.

Once sure, then approach that chap and tell him you had a look, someone is after winding him up, and that you will be parking in whatever spot you want. Politely, because you do have to live as neighbours with these people.

listermint

Or park in front of your house perhaps ?

harr

Any housing estates I have lived all parking spots are free for everyone to use..unless they have the house numbers painted on them.
Different in apartments where each unit would have a dedicated space.
Does your house have a driveway ?
I recon this other persons landlord assigned a parking spot to the house when he probably shouldn’t have.

Innocent123

I live in such a setup. It was made very clear that it's free parking and no-one owns any spots. However there are clear spaces outside each house and most roads have settled into an arrangement of the space outside your front door being yours. Any visitors I've had over the years who may park outside my neighbours I ask to move to a communal spot.

I believe there's a couple of roads in the development who don't have such a gentleman's agreement and there's hassle amongst the neighbours - I'd personally rather not fall out over something like this. OP, perhaps talk to your neighbours and understand what the arrangement is along the road

boombang

Well, it's a good start that the fellow is polite about it. Hopefully he'll be reasonable too. You may not have seen it, but there was a War and Peace of a thread here about somebody in a similar situation and the other party was very unreasonable.

Given that you are new to the situation I think it's best not to leap to any conclusions. Also, the fellow may have been poorly informed and have an honestly held incorrect understanding of the status of the spaces.

andekwarhola

I live in a similar estate. With unallocated parking, you don't have the right to park in a particular spot, end of.

How you play it is up to you though. Only one twat on our street gets tetchy about wanting to park outside his house (and hilariously, they owe the MC a complete fortune in fees) but it never impacts me as it's not near where I park. You have to weigh up parking in a particular spot with falling out with a neighbour.

You can ask the board /agents to send a letter round reminding residents what unallocated parking means, but it's unlikely to prevent the occasional person being a dick.

listermint

sugarman wrote: »

:rolleyes:

You can't park in front of your house no?

As alluded to by another poster above they have this arrangement with their entire road and everyone is happy.

But sure you could always live in your house not talk to your neighbors park where you like and treat your house as a staging house for sleeping in than a home.

Bit of a problem with people these days zero interest in chatting to those around them

sydthebeat

Use landdirect.ie

Log in as a guest.

Use the map to find the houses and click on it, the highlighted area is the area on the land registry folio..... See If it includes the car parking

andekwarhola

listermint wrote: »

You can't park in front of your house no?

As alluded to by another poster above they have this arrangement with their entire road and everyone is happy.

But sure you could always live in your house not talk to your neighbors park where you like and treat your house as a staging house for sleeping in than a home.

Bit of a problem with people these days zero interest in chatting to those around them

It's not always possible in estates with communal parking. There's no way everybody on my street could park outside their house as many have two cars so you tend to park where you can on the street.

It's fine if neighbours let it slide in some cases, but not to the point where you're indulging the fantasy that another resident (who pays the same amount of fees as you) owns a spot because they don't. And giving people the impression that they do, always causes strife between residents and I'm saying that as a long term MC director.

listermint

Some estates it's possible some it's not. Hence my question in this case.

Bananaleaf

Hi all

Thanks for so many replies.

I didn't want to give too much detail in first post as I was afraid my questions would get lost in it. So to answer questions asked and give more context:

1. I am not a tenant. We purchased the house. Not that this matters I know, but just to give full picture.

2. We have no driveway and neither do the other houses on our row.

3. On our planning map, the boundary lines contain the bit of footpath outside our house (which we were told we don't own anyway) No spaces are included in our boundary lines.

4. There are not sufficient spaces for all the houses on the row.

5. The spaces in question are closer to this guys house (he's mid terrace) than they are to ours (we are end terrace)

6. There is no parking space outside our home, but there is street parking as we are end of terrace with no other row of houses beginning after our property. This is where we would normally park (only been here a week) but this time this strip of space was full of cars. It's obviously more convenient for us to park closer to our house, but with that strip full, instead of banging on windows, I just chose the next available spot. And here we are.

7. The reason I moved was because for all I know the mid terraces do come with parking spaces. This is something I want to find out as soon as I can

8. As stated in the OP I will speak to my neighbour again. As in, a second time. As in, I have knocked on the door to meet her. I don't have 'zero interest in chatting to those around " me and I can't see where you managed to jump to that conclusion @listermint. It's a holiday period and people are not home a lot at the minute.

9. No management company and estate not taken over by local authority.

10. I'd be pretty confident that this guy was rented the accommodation with two spaces. He was very polite and wasn't looking to fight with me. Not yet anyway. He seemed to really believe what he was telling me.

caviardreams

Bananaleaf wrote: »

9. No management company and estate not taken over by local authority.

Who is managing the development then in terms of public lighting, grass cutting, maintenance of kerbs etc.?

harr

caviardreams wrote: »

Who is managing the development then in terms of public lighting, grass cutting, maintenance of kerbs etc.?

Has to be a management company , currently where I live we taught there was no MC and had problems with flooding due to blocked drains.
County council said it was MC job to fix and low and behold we had a MC assigned to the estate.
People were living here 15 years without knowing about them.
We had to seek legal advice and legal action for them to sort out problem.
Months of drain problems before it was resolved..

pauliebdub

It's the same in my estate, plenty of parking but no assigned spaces. It doesn't stop some residents behaving like dogs pissing against a tree regarding parking.

RacoonQueen

Bananaleaf wrote: »

9. No management company and estate not taken over by local authority.

Has got to be one or the other? If it is neither anyway, then I would say that parking does not come with the property as no way for it to be enforced if there is no private clampers going round...

Lantus

listermint wrote:

What's .5 of a car

Well they basically say there are 10 houses so we will provide 15 spaces all unallocated for people to use. It varies depending on the property size but 1.5 is pretty standard.

trellheim

Parking is by far the most divisive between neighbours I can think of. Anyway as others have said its either MC responsibility or taken-in-charge, theres no in-between IMHO . However if you've bought the gaff and not got an MC I find that really weird

One key point usually is that allocated spaces are numbered either with the apartment number or a spot number on accordingly

The only other thing I can think of is that the dwellings had a spot included at purchase - but in that case it would almost definitely be signed , I can't think of an owned spot that isn't labelled

It was my understanding that an MC be set up before any units are sold - see http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/management_companies_for_apartment_blocks.html

does it fall into that category ?

Bananaleaf

What you are all saying about a management company is very interesting.

We were not told that there was one. This is what we were told by the solicitor:

The estate wasn't taken in charge by the local authority due to a dispute with builder after the houses were built. There was a roundabout that was supposed to be built that never was, and because of this the are wasn't taken in charge.

The solicitor told us that this meant that in terms of the lighting, roads etc that the county council apparently still have to look after this, even if they haven't taken the area in charge.

I asked a lady who also lives in this estate (who I know socially) and she said that there is no management company but that there is a residents association (I am aware that these are not the same thing)

Bananaleaf

trellheim wrote: »

Parking is by far the most divisive between neighbours I can think of. Anyway as others have said its either MC responsibility or taken-in-charge, theres no in-between IMHO . However if you've bought the gaff and not got an MC I find that really weird

One key point usually is that allocated spaces are numbered either with the apartment number or a spot number on accordingly

The only other thing I can think of is that the dwellings had a spot included at purchase - but in that case it would almost definitely be signed , I can't think of an owned spot that isn't labelled

It was my understanding that an MC be set up before any units are sold - see http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/management_companies_for_apartment_blocks.html

does it fall into that category ?

Thanks - read your link.

Yes, there are more than 5 houses so it would fit into that category in that respect, but this strip of houses is one part of a much larger estate which comprises of about 200 homes, built about 20years ago.

I see from the link you provided that if a management company were to exist it would have to have been done at the expense of the developer. Seeing as he renaged on his promise to build the roundabout, I doubt he had put this in place either.

Caranica

Lantus wrote: »

Well they basically say there are 10 houses so we will provide 15 spaces all unallocated for people to use. It varies depending on the property size but 1.5 is pretty standard.

.5 of a space was explained to us by our solicitor as a share in visitor parking.

harr

Bananaleaf wrote: »

What you are all saying about a management company is very interesting.

We were not told that there was one. This is what we were told by the solicitor:

The estate wasn't taken in charge by the local authority due to a dispute with builder after the houses were built. There was a roundabout that was supposed to be built that never was, and because of this the are wasn't taken in charge.

The solicitor told us that this meant that in terms of the lighting, roads etc that the county council apparently still have to look after this, even if they haven't taken the area in charge.

I asked a lady who also lives in this estate (who I know socially) and she said that there is no management company but that there is a residents association (I am aware that these are not the same thing)

Very similar to our circumstances, builder went bust and a company at the time was given the task of finishing the estate. Now council won’t take it in charge because of various issues not completed by builder.
We have a residence Association which sort out grass and general clean up..
We asked our solicitor and sure enough it was on our deeds that it had to have a MC and they must collect fees from each house for the likes of grass and general upkeep.
It was only after a lot of digging we found them and they then told us they had no money to do anything and were only the MC in name only and the company was only set up for paper work and to keep council happy.
Anyway with some pressure from our solicitor and county council they were made to fix problems and to start taking fees from each house.

Sleeper12

I park where I need to. I move cones, chairs, planks etc. If it's not marked private (&sometimes when it is) its actually public parking

Sleeper12

I park where I need to. I move cones, chairs, planks etc. If it's not marked private (&sometimes when it is) its actually public parking

mirrorwall14

We live in a section with no designated parking spots at the path but one spot across the road. There is an unwritten rule that we found out quickly that every house generally uses their designated spot and the spot outside their door. However no one has a hissy fit if a neighbour/visitor parks in an undesignated spot the odd time. Suss out the lay of the land OP then see what way you want to play it

April 73

@bananaleaf - check the original grant of planning & you’ll see if allocated parking was included with each house (unlikely) and whether there is a management company. If the council won’t take it in charge I don’t think the responsibility for roads & lights falls to them. I think you need to do a bit more digging.

While I can see that you don’t want to aggravate neighbourly relations it would be useful to know if you are entitled to park in any available space if the spaces closest to you aren’t available and what you can say to your neighbour at these times. It sounds like he is overly protective of the spaces outside his house. It’s most unlikely he has rights to two spaces.

andekwarhola

If it's allocated parking, it will usually be clearly marked as same. Like a unit number, or V for visitor etc.

Some people just willingly buy property without a driveway or car park and then think they can claim a chunk of public road for themselves.

The problem with 'letting it go' just validates their behaviour which has about as much standing as putting a cone on a random street space outside your office and berating people for using it.

At least though, the guy seems sound so maybe he can be put straight without a falling out. On the rare occasion it happened on my estate, it's always been the twats that nobody likes.

muttnjeff

whatever about his landlord allocating him one space there is no way he can claim TWO spaces as the OP says this man was doing!

Marcusm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

What you are all saying about a management company is very interesting.

We were not told that there was one. This is what we were told by the solicitor:

The estate wasn't taken in charge by the local authority due to a dispute with builder after the houses were built. There was a roundabout that was supposed to be built that never was, and because of this the are wasn't taken in charge.

The solicitor told us that this meant that in terms of the lighting, roads etc that the county council apparently still have to look after this, even if they haven't taken the area in charge.

I asked a lady who also lives in this estate (who I know socially) and she said that there is no management company but that there is a residents association (I am aware that these are not the same thing)

i find it hard to believe that your solicitor told you this on a multi unit development. If it hasn't Been taken in charge because it is up to the required spec then he should have investigation what completion bonds etc were available to bring it up to spec to ensure the local authority take it in charge. Elsewise the cost of ant repairs, resurfacing etc will fall in the residents or more likely not be performed at all.

christy02

House we used to live in had a similar setup. Terraced houses in a line. Footpath few feet from door and then car park spaces other side of the path (Footpath separating house and car parking).
When we bought the house the property land registry clearly shows 2 spaces directly outside house belonging to property.
This was observed by all residents. Each house had 2 and then there was a few overflow at end of road.
It is possible that neighbour is correct.

PhoenixParker

The 1.5 spaces/house so far is an assumption. Most irish developments would provide more so 2 spaces is not beyond the realms of possibility.

I’m in Ashtown where there’s decent bus, train and now tram services. Houses have designated parking at 1.5/house (some have 1 and some have 2) and there’s additional visitor parking too @ .5/house. That’s lower then what the builder originally proposed. I’d be very surprised if parking is as low as 1.5/house across a whole estate of houses unless there’s excellent public transport.

One thing that strikes me. If there’s no management company and the council hasn’t taken the area in charge and the estate is there for 20 years, any markings may well be simply washed away or not installed in the first place.

I’m surprised you were able to close a house in an estate with such uncertainty about maintenance. You should go through your documents and go back to your solicitor to find out the situation and try to get it sorted before a real problem develops.

peteb2

pauliebdub wrote:

It's the same in my estate, plenty of parking but no assigned spaces. It doesn't stop some residents behaving like dogs pissing against a tree regarding parking.

You know why? Because sometimes your neighbors in a two bed house possess 4 vehicles! **** happens. People usually have a reason to piss!

peteb2

PhoenixParker wrote:

I’m in Ashtown where there’s decent bus, train and now tram services. Houses have designated parking at 1.5/house (some have 1 and some have 2) and there’s additional visitor parking too @ .5/house. That’s lower then what the builder originally proposed. I’d be very surprised if parking is as low as 1.5/house across a whole estate of houses unless there’s excellent public transport.

I think in Fingal area there was a planning requirement of allocating 1.5 spots for every two beds in a house.

Optimalprimerib

I live in an estate like this and it's nearly a common law in which each neighbour respects that these spaces are allocated to the house. In order to keep the peace we each respect that. ( There has been cases in the past where cars were scratched, not mine or in my space but it has happened.)

The best thing to do would be talk to the neighbours to discuss before just parking anywhere. It's not a law but it will be easier in the long term.

Bananaleaf

Marcusm wrote: »

i find it hard to believe that your solicitor told you this on a multi unit development.

His exact words were "it's good if it is (taken in charge) and its good if it isn't, because either way, the council have to look after it"

Judging by you saying "I find it hard to believe" this would suggest to me that our solicitor has given us a very poor service.

I know you might say "why didn't you look into this before closing" but that's what I was paying the solicitor to do surely? I've never purchased a property before, so how would I be expected to know that the person I have paid to research such things for me hasn't done them? I read up extensively during the process and never once did the question of investigating if a property is in charge of local authority appear, so I don't feel bad for not having noticed it myself.
My solicitor on the other hand, should've known better.

What's interesting is that I have looked back on the bank valuers report and he stated in it that the estate is in charge of the local authority. But maybe, as previously mentioned by someone else, that was a box-ticking exercise?

AndrewJRenko

peteb2 wrote: »

You know why? Because sometimes your neighbors in a two bed house possess 4 vehicles! **** happens. People usually have a reason to piss!

Maybe the should be checking out the availability of parking BEFORE they decide to buy or rent there, rather than expecting public space to be used for storage of their private property?

Caranica

peteb2 wrote: »

I think in Fingal area there was a planning requirement of allocating 1.5 spots for every two beds in a house.

Same in Dun Laoghaire Rathdown

PhoenixParker

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Maybe the should be checking out the availability of parking BEFORE they decide to buy or rent there, rather than expecting public space to be used for storage of their private property?

Not with two beds, but from observation the biggest parking problems in estates tend to happen 20-25 years after they’re built especially in Dublin. The babies born in the estate grow up and get cars instead of moving out. Suddenly every house has 3-6 cars and parking becomes a war zone.

Nobody moving in with a newborn is thinking that far ahead.

splinter65

A row between next door neighbors in our estate over on street parking resulted in a new father losing his good job.
Pictures of his company car covered in logos appeared on Facebook when he deliberately parked like an arsehole just enough to prevent his neighbor from exiting her drive.
It was “shared” 10000 times and his boss got to hear of it and out the door he went. P45.

AndrewJRenko

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Not with two beds, but from observation the biggest parking problems in estates tend to happen 20-25 years after they’re built especially in Dublin. The babies born in the estate grow up and get cars instead of moving out. Suddenly every house has 3-6 cars and parking becomes a war zone.

Nobody moving in with a newborn is thinking that far ahead.

Plenty of time to think ahead about storage requirements when buying the car. You don't just buy a car and then expect somebody (government? council? management company?) to provide public space for storage of your private property.

Vetch

Bananaleaf wrote: »

His exact words were "it's good if it is (taken in charge) and its good if it isn't, because either way, the council have to look after it"

Judging by you saying "I find it hard to believe" this would suggest to me that our solicitor has given us a very poor service.

I know you might say "why didn't you look into this before closing" but that's what I was paying the solicitor to do surely? I've never purchased a property before, so how would I be expected to know that the person I have paid to research such things for me hasn't done them? I read up extensively during the process and never once did the question of investigating if a property is in charge of local authority appear, so I don't feel bad for not having noticed it myself.
My solicitor on the other hand, should've known better.

What's interesting is that I have looked back on the bank valuers report and he stated in it that the estate is in charge of the local authority. But maybe, as previously mentioned by someone else, that was a box-ticking exercise?

Afaik the solicitor has to tell any lender if the estate isn't taken in charge. It isn't really a box-ticking exercise if something major goes wrong and the Council won't take responsibility. If the estate isn't particularly new or the developer is gone wallop, the Council may well provide services. A colleague of mine had his purchase held up for several months due to an unresolved issue with the sewerage system and estate not taken in charge.

Teyla Emmagan

splinter65 wrote:

A row between next door neighbors in our estate over on street parking resulted in a new father losing his good job. Pictures of his company car covered in logos appeared on Facebook when he deliberately parked like an arsehole just enough to prevent his neighbor from exiting her drive. It was “shared†10000 times and his boss got to hear of it and out the door he went. P45.

Good enough for him.

Marcusm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

His exact words were "it's good if it is (taken in charge) and its good if it isn't, because either way, the council have to look after it"

Judging by you saying "I find it hard to believe" this would suggest to me that our solicitor has given us a very poor service.

I know you might say "why didn't you look into this before closing" but that's what I was paying the solicitor to do surely? I've never purchased a property before, so how would I be expected to know that the person I have paid to research such things for me hasn't done them? I read up extensively during the process and never once did the question of investigating if a property is in charge of local authority appear, so I don't feel bad for not having noticed it myself.
My solicitor on the other hand, should've known better.

What's interesting is that I have looked back on the bank valuers report and he stated in it that the estate is in charge of the local authority. But maybe, as previously mentioned by someone else, that was a box-ticking exercise?

Not sure why he would suggest that the council have to look after it. Sure, there are plenty of councils which have a positive policy of taking estates in charge but equally, and especially where there are communal services, there are plenty which will be forever privately maintained, ie OMC and the attendant management fees. If the road is not I charge then neither are sewerage and similar services. If the builder didn’t complete the roadworks to spec (roundabout issue you mentioned) then they may well have cut corners elsewhere. Solicitors negligence, if that is present, runs only for 6 years from conveyance not from when you identify the issue.