Clontarf bike lane - what a shambles

Michelin

Went for a spin on this famously expensive and long time been built pathway for the first time properly and its some joke. i went from Dublin port end towards Sutton. I encountered, car parks with car bonnets overflowing on the path, their owners spilling out on the path, I crossed the entrance of two other car parks, Several crossings and junctions with no warnings, poles all in the lanes along the way. Rode through at least two bus stops with people all over the path waiting for their bus. Then when you get further up after the newest looking bit past the Dollymount strand entrance there are poles with dog poo bins attached to them, and where are they erected? On the inside of the cycle path next to the wall. you have to ride out of the path way to avoid it. also means dog walkers have to walk on to the cycle path to use it. Why the gombeens couldnt erect these in the wider footpath section, god only knows. just as i was getting near the end there are these crazy steps going down to the footpath on the road side that start literally on the cycle lane which means a rectangle hole to avoid. Imagine using this for the first time at night. And to think its all designed this way.

Michelin

Ah it is a shambles...why should cyclists/citizens accept this second rate cycle path given the cost and time it took to build. a lot of the obstacles look like they have been there a long time...why has it never improved? new section has kerbs to jump onto and it splits into a footpath and cycle path by st annes park with no indication of which direction to take. second rate facility. i know im coming down hard on it, Im just fed up of sub standard work by councils

Arcade_Tryer

Michelin wrote: »

car parks with car bonnets overflowing on the path

Whatever about the other inconveniences, the above is criminal. Cannot believe the path wasn't widened in those places.

Michelin

Weepsie wrote: »

Far from perfect, but wouldn't call it a complete shambles.

The new section is very nice I find. Stairs, car park entrances and bins are rather annoying though.

Historical stuff aside even. The bins look new so, Why do planners/engineers (no sure who decides to put these things there) erect these on a cycle path? like Doh

Etc

The manhole covers are in the cycle lanes too, could have been located differently. I definitely agree, the bins are a challenge on a dark commute home.

The Muppet

It's dangerous. I run on the pedestrian part of it a couple of times a week and have had a few close calls on the pededtrian part with cyclists who imo were travelling too fast for the conditions. Granted it's quite narrow in places for cyclists especially if passing while moving in opposite directions .

Alanstrainor

I'd have to agree really. Lots of basic issues which really shouldn't have made it passed the first draft of planning. The dog poo bins and steps in the middle of the track really do get me, no logic applied at all in those spots. The lack of lighting along large portions of the track is another issue, especially heading Sutton direction in the evenings with the car headlights pointing in your eyes. Even with a big light up front you'd have to be very cautious indeed.

That being said, I commute on it daily and it's fine. Does the job, no more no less. Pretty typical of cycling infrastructure in Ireland.

Atlantic Dawn

They need to fit wheel stops in the carparks so the cars can't overshoot on to the cycle track...

ED E

Are the bins new? I dont remember noticing them earlier in the year.

Blanch


Navan Road


Knocklyon


Bray



Councillors should be made to cycle, otherwise they'll never cop the hell onto their own stupidity.

Mikewalsh

Are these cycle lanes ever right when they're added on after?

Who's designing the things anyhow ,is it councillors?

ED E

Engineers and planners in the co co, then signed off by the councillors. Book stops with them.

Mikewalsh

There needs to be proper procedures in place to get the lanes altered when issues arise after

It's bound to happen when lanes are tacked onto existing roads

Michelin

ED E wrote: »

Engineers and planners in the co co, then signed off by the councillors. Book stops with them.

So a grown adult, with a degree in town planning or engineering, passes the graduate entrance exams and becomes an employee of the county council, goes and designs a bike path, grand then he or another planner/engineer with same credentials decides to put a bin/pole etc in the path. ha

ED E

SDCC claim to have no money to fix any road issues. Lowest spending per m of all the LAs.

DLRCC are ok, though the Dromartin Link joke is still present.

DCC can move if you prod them weekly for a year. Cuffe is good but not going up again next year.

ED E

Michelin wrote: »

So a grown adult, with a degree in town planning or engineering, passes the graduate entrance exams and becomes an employee of the county council, goes and designs a bike path, grand then he or another planner/engineer with same credentials decides to put a bin/pole etc in the path. ha

Yep. Possibly architects too.

Atlantic Dawn

Why do such obstructions not become personal injury claim goldmines? Do no people on bikes claim for others recklessness?

ED E

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Why do such obstructions not become personal injury claim goldmines? Do no people on bikes claim for others recklessness?

This isnt AH.

ted1

The expensive cycle lane which cane from cycling allocated money also included flood defence walls and new mains water

It’s Criminal how that budget was spent. I’d love to see what the actual cost if the cycle path element was.

Tenzor07

Cycled today along from entrance to Eastpoint, where I encountered a large amount of glass (deliberately?) smashed right across the cycle path, you have to go into the grass beside it to avoid...

Further up just past Clontarf bus depot I encountered a group of about 12 people merrily strolling along the cycle path completely oblivious that they were blocking the cycle lane..

Also on the new section it seems to be full of grit and stones so definitely not being maintained..

LegallyAbroad

Cycle it daily for work and often cycle the full length and back for exercise.

Find it great, you can pick up a good clip from Clontarf to Sutton.

Genuinely don't know what people are complaining about, find it a great peace of infrastructure. Wish we had more of it.

If people happen to be in the cycle lane, ring your bell, people move out of the way, solved.

Kaisr Sose

I have not used the track but I would say what the op has said sums up many cycle tracks.

A bell is a valuable tool when cycling in urban areas/where there are pedestrians. You can’t stop people walking on the Clontarf track or any cycle infastructure, but if the LA’s place rubbish bins on these tracks, they just make it a foregone conclusion that people will! That’s self-defeating. On that, the LA’s are truly expert.

Personally, I am tired with the “what if this is as good as it gets” or “it’s better than it was” type comment. It can be better and it should be better.

When planning these, planners need to consider it’s intended purpose, traffic volumes, and crucially user needs. Then design it ‘fit for purpose’, ensure it’s constructed ‘as designed’ and when finished, maintain/clean it on a regular basis. Anything less indicates to me a lack of interest in providing a safe, dedicated cycling infastructure.

Until we get such infastructure, a bell—although essential to have— is not a solution!

LennoxR

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

I have not used the track but I would say what the op has said sums up many cycle tracks.

A bell is a valuable tool when cycling in urban areas/where there are pedestrians. You can’t stop people walking on the Clontarf track or any cycle infastructure, but if the LA’s place rubbish bins on these tracks, they just make it a foregone conclusion that people will! That’s self-defeating. On that, the LA’s are truly expert.

Personally, I am tired with the “what if this is as good as it gets” or “it’s better than it was” type comment. It can be better and it should be better.

When planning these, planners need to consider it’s intended purpose, traffic volumes, and crucially user needs. Then design it ‘fit for purpose’, ensure it’s constructed ‘as designed’ and when finished, maintain/clean it on a regular basis. Anything less indicates to me a lack of interest in providing a safe, dedicated cycling infastructure.

Until we get such infastructure, a bell—although essential to have— is not a solution!

To be fair, if you haven't used it you really shouldn't judge. It's pretty good actually.

Kaisr Sose

LennoxR wrote: »

To be fair, if you haven't used it you really shouldn't judge. It's pretty good actually.

I don’t have to use it to make a general comment on cycling infastructure. I read the whole thread and many posters agreed with OP that it’s not as good as it could be. Therefore, this track appears to be no different to others I have used.

Thargor

ED E wrote: »

Are the bins new? I dont remember noticing them earlier in the year.

Bray

Sorry but this wrecking my head, whereabouts in Bray is that? Ive been cycling all around Bray for the last 5 years and Ive never seen that.

red_bairn

ED E wrote:

Councillors should be made to cycle, otherwise they'll never cop the hell onto their own stupidity.

True. The bray pic looks hilariously shopped. Where is that?

RobertFoster

The Bray track is here: https://goo.gl/maps/cxQRCDUswfT2

Bollards and boulders. Looks like fun.

recedite

RobertFoster wrote: »

The Bray track is here: https://goo.gl/maps/cxQRCDUswfT2

Bollards and boulders. Looks like fun.

If you zoom out you can see the reason for the placement of the megaliths; they are obviously there to deter a certain ethnic minority from taking up residence in the adjacent vacant sites. That whole area was set to be developed, but sadly the developers failed to take into account that the NII/ M50 junction up the road is already at a daily gridlock, and nobody ever bothered to extend the Luas through here to link up with the Dart a short distance away in Bray.
As a result ABP has recently refused it.

I'd love to see the cost analysis document comparing the cost of paying compo to the occasional broken cyclist, versus the cost of removing a tribe of our traveling friends and cleaning up after them. The document probably exists in some office somewhere, with TOP SECRET written on the cover :pac:

magicbastarder

red_bairn wrote: »

True. The bray pic looks hilariously shopped.

i'm curious in what way it looks photoshopped?

recedite

Actually with a bit of imagination, they could have positioned the megaliths clear of the cycle track, but still blocking the gates. Although that might have left a small area of "hard standing" still exposed to temporary residences.

Maybe just a lack of consideration by the megalith builders for cyclists? Of course the other thing about that Fassaroe stretch of road is that there are no cyclists there.

Which brings us on to that other unique feature of The Irish Cycletrack. It usually appears wherever there is wide area of unused space at the side of a road, and then ends abruptly in places where it is actually needed. Clontarf might be a rare exception to that, hence it attracts all the comment because people are actually cycling on it.

recedite

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm curious in what way it looks photoshopped?

In fairness, it does look too stupid to be real, at first sight.

Kaisr Sose

red_bairn wrote: »

True. The bray pic looks hilariously shopped. Where is that?

The hilarious thing with the pic is the placement of boulders on a cycle track and that WCC or whoever did it, thought it necessary to cement them down - to be sure to be sure! At the same time, they will quote every mm of that cycle track for EU funding for dedicated cycle tracks.

iwillhtfu

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

The hilarious thing with the pic is the placement of boulders on a cycle track and that WCC or whoever did it, thought it necessary to cement them down - to be sure to be sure! At the same time, they will quote every mm of that cycle track for EU funding for dedicated cycle tracks.

It would have been BUDC that put those there. <Snip>
The cement is suppose to stop them rocking when put in place I guess to cut down on claims - I mean injuries.

Kaisr Sose

^^^silly me! You are right, ‘claims’! They could just roll on an unlucky cyclists foot as they attempt to move them off the cycle track.

C3PO

In fairness that cycle track in Bray is never used - it is in a totally undeveloped industrial area! I cycle past it regularly and wouldn't dream of using the track! The boulders were put in after the fact when it became clear that no further development was going to happen for the foreseeable future!

Mercian Pro

Getting back on topic about the condition/design of the Fairview to Sutton cycle path, I used it today for the first time in a few months on the way home from NCD and Howth. It was a real pleasure, despite the headwind, and quite a relief to get away from cars, vans, buses etc. I am not sure if the OP is aware that the full route is made up of a number of different sections built at different times and to very different budgets and design standards. I think everyone would like to see the older sections brought up to the current standards and hopefully this will eventually happen if the City Councillors are lobbied on the matter.

A more urgent priority I would suggest is the extension of the cycle path into town along the East Wall and the construction of the southern leg of the S2S along the coast all the way to Sandycove. A flawed report on this was published by the NTA in 2016 with a deadline of January 2017 for submitting comments but nothing further has been heard about it since then. Why it should take eleven months to read some submissions and to respond to them is a total mystery.

Sunsets On Tuesday

I'd have to agree with Mercian Pro. Superb facility to have; despite the fact it is flawed in some ways.
One example of a flaw being the lights at Bull Island. They are red for peds/cyclists for 98% of the time, I don't think anyone could actually wait for them, seeing as most of the time it's perfectly safe to cross anyway. Perhaps there should be priority for cyclists anyways, it is just a road that leads to a beach after all.

But overall it's great to have 8k or so of off-road cycle track. Can't wait till it's completed all the way to Sandycove.. although it'll be lucky if we see it brought as far as the East Link in our life times!

Mercian Pro

I've just seen on the excellent IrishCycle.com site that our idiotic Councillors have voted to spend €230,000 on reducing the height of the sea wall along the St Anne's section of the cycleway so that motorists can see the lagoon. I think this might have discussed in a different thread some time ago but given the title of this thread, here seems more a appropriate place to break the news.
No prizes for anyone suggesting better uses for €230,000.

Alanstrainor

I remember just after the new section of the cycle route opened last year that the height of the wall was being talked about. I can't quite believe that they have decided to spend that amount on lowering it. The wall is hardly high as it stands...

No doubt this will mean the closure of the cycle route for months...

CramCycle

Thargor wrote: »

Sorry but this wrecking my head, whereabouts in Bray is that? Ive been cycling all around Bray for the last 5 years and Ive never seen that.

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I remember just after the new section of the cycle route opened last year that the height of the wall was being talked about. I can't quite believe that they have decided to spend that amount on lowering it. The wall is hardly high as it stands...

No doubt this will mean the closure of the cycle route for months...

Fools and their money, it will lower flood defences and all for the sake of giving motorists something to look at, as if they did not have enough to entertain themselves visually while driving a vehicle.

buffalo

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I've just seen on the excellent IrishCycle.com site that our idiotic Councillors have voted to spend €230,000 on reducing the height of the sea wall along the St Anne's section of the cycleway so that motorists can see the lagoon. I think this might have discussed in a different thread some time ago but given the title of this thread, here seems more a appropriate place to break the news.
No prizes for anyone suggesting better uses for €230,000.

This is the section of wall, right? https://goo.gl/maps/KZfbsyU8FNH2

They're reducing it from the current height to the blue line if I'm not mistaken. Is it going to make that much of a difference? If the objections are coming from actual locals, surely they can walk down and take a look when they want. I get the feeling it's because they can't see the lagoon while they're driving from the golf club to the Marine for Sunday lunch.

odyssey06

There's a lot of mis-information on this thread about the wall height.
https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0108/931867-clontarf-sea-wall/

The majority of the cost relates to the finishing works for the wall - copping & cladding which was not done pending final decision on the height of the wall.
This finishing work was one of the conditions of planning permission for the wall.

Another condition was not to affect the view between St Anne's Park & the Bay.

And if predictions are to be believed, we'll probably have driverless cars before we need a higher wall so everyone in the car, not just passengers, can enjoy the lovely view until it's absolutely necessary to block it

buffalo

odyssey06 wrote: »

There's a lot of mis-information on this thread about the wall height.

What's the mis-information?

Chips Lovell

Actually, it's not €230,000. It's more like €500,000:

The cost of the work is estimated at €230,000 to reduce the height of the seawall and €300,000 for stone cladding.

There will also be further outlay when the wall has to be reheightened later on:

The reduction in height would provide protection against a 100-year tidal event rather than the national standard of a 200-year tidal event, and for only half the allowance for sea-level rise expected by the end of the century, council chief executive Owen Keegan warned. “In addition, there will also be a cost for raising the wall at some future date, in line with the recommendations of the independent expert.”

DCC has piles of cash and the best thing they could do is to crack on with spending it. :pac:

Sleeper12

Mercian Pro wrote:

I've just seen on the excellent IrishCycle.com site that our idiotic Councillors have voted to spend €230,000 on reducing the height of the sea wall along the St Anne's section of the cycleway so that motorists can see the lagoon. I think this might have discussed in a different thread some time ago but given the title of this thread, here seems more a appropriate place to break the news. No prizes for anyone suggesting better uses for €230,000.

I agree the wall height protest was a terrible idea but what the article does not explain is that the wall is unfinished. It is at different heights at different points. It should have been reported that the money was to finish the wall. Saying it's to lower it isn't quite true. They also have to make it higher in places too

ted1

Does it affect the view from the park? The park raises above the wall height and there’s trees and bushes etc within the park that block the view

ThisRegard

Cllr Damian O'Farrell, who voted for it, gave a car crash interview on Pat Kenny about this just now, great slip of the tongue when he mentioned "orgasms" in the biosphere.

ThisRegard

ThisRegard wrote: »

Cllr Damian O'Farrell, who voted for it, gave a car crash interview on Pat Kenny about this just now, great slip of the tongue when he mentioned "orgasms" in the biosphere.

Just listening, I think Pat sniggered :pac:

This is an ideal money making job for the builders if they're continuously changing the plans as the wall is built. Great number.

buffalo

ThisRegard wrote: »

Cllr Damian O'Farrell, who voted for it, gave a car crash interview on Pat Kenny about this just now, great slip of the tongue when he mentioned "orgasms" in the biosphere.

Is this the same Damian O'Farrell who's horrified at the thought of losing a car lane in Fairview? Sounds like genuine orgasmic concern to me...

ThisRegard

buffalo wrote: »

Is this the same Damian O'Farrell who's horrified at the thought of losing a car lane in Fairview? Sounds like genuine orgasmic concern to me...

If that guy also seems to just wing it when he gives interviews and comes across as not really knowing the topic he's speaking about, then yes.

check_six

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Actually, it's not €230,000. It's more like €500,000:

I feel that while we are in this frame of mind we should take the money and feed it into a change machine in an arcade. We could then pile up the coins all along the wall to any desired height. Might need to use a bit of superglue or what have you but if we need to change it later we can just go back and add a few more bags of 5c pieces or whatever. Everybody wins!