Bank Waiver - Mortgage Protection Insurance

CoconutSky

Hello,

I have been postponed life assurance by three providers over the past two months and just wondering if the same has ever happened to anyone else on here? I have three postponement letters from the insurance companies, which I have submitted to Bank of Ireland. They have issued me a full loan offer for a mortgage (sole applicant) and I have applied for a waiver. It’s been a week and still no decision. I’m absolutely bricking it, now it’s Xmas week I’m sure I won’t hear back until first week in January. Anyone have similar experiences and have they heard of Bank of Ireland granting waivers?

Bananaleaf

CoconutSky wrote: »

Hello,

I have been postponed life assurance by three providers over the past two months and just wondering if the same has ever happened to anyone else on here? I have three postponement letters from the insurance companies, which I have submitted to Bank of Ireland. They have issued me a full loan offer for a mortgage (sole applicant) and I have applied for a waiver. It’s been a week and still no decision. I’m absolutely bricking it, now it’s Xmas week I’m sure I won’t hear back until first week in January. Anyone have similar experiences and have they heard of Bank of Ireland granting waivers?

You won't hear at this stage until Jan now.
May I ask what a waiver entails? Does this mean that you don't have to have the life assurance? How could this be allowed? (I'm not saying that in an argumentative way, I'm genuinely curious)

Good luck

CoconutSky

Section 126(2) of the Consumer Credit Act 1995 sets out the circumstances where a lender may waive the requirement for a borrower to hold mortgage protection insurance.

One of those circumstances is if the borrower cannot get a quote from three separate providers. It’s at the discretion of the bank however. I understand some banks are more lenient than others and I suppose I’m wondering has anyone heard of Bank of Ireland ever granting such a waiver?

Victor

CoconutSky wrote: »

I have been postponed life assurance by three providers over the past two months

What do you mean by "postponed"? Do you mean declined?

CoconutSky

They said they would be willing to reassess again in one years time or in two years time (in one case)

Vetch

There's a company called Pulse Insurance that works with people who've been declined. Some old threads about them. I don't know a thing about them, but they're there. Maybe also talk to a broker. If you're only approved by BOI maybe talk to other banks and explain about the refusal to see if it would be worth your while applying to them. I don't think a week is a long time for BOI to be considering this and the timing of Christmas is unfortunate.

Browney7

Bananaleaf wrote: »

You won't hear at this stage until Jan now.
May I ask what a waiver entails? Does this mean that you don't have to have the life assurance? How could this be allowed? (I'm not saying that in an argumentative way, I'm genuinely curious)

Good luck

Would imagine the loan characteristics will have a bit to do with it. If you have 90% LTV versus say 50% you'd be a lot riskier for instance

CoconutSky

I’ve 84% LTV

It’s such an anxiety inducing time, I can’t seem to relax. I haven’t heard of many people being granted a waiver I heard Ulster Bank grant them if you have 3 refusal letters but unsure of Bank of Ireland. I could do with some good news!

CoconutSky

How would I go about strengthening my case? If they come back a refuse the waiver, what are my options?

Bananaleaf

Can you afford to wait it out a while and try to increase savings? Would that be an option?

Would making a joint purchase with someone else help your case?

Toots

BOI does do the waiver with 3 declines, but it probably gets assessed on a case by case basis. I don't know what their stance is on postponement as opposed to declines.

Bananaleaf

Toots wrote: »

BOI does do the waiver with 3 declines, but it probably gets assessed on a case by case basis. I don't know what their stance is on postponement as opposed to declines.

Does this work in the same way car insurance does? Except, with car insurance you end up with hefty premiums. In this case, does 'waiver' mean that you don't need to have the mortgage protection at all?

q85dw7osi4lebg

I was postponed by Zurich then approved by New Ireland. Asked about waiver and both solicitor and mortgage advisor reckoned if I had the 3 postponement letters than I'd be approved for the waiver.

I sympathise with you as that was a mental stressful few weeks trying to get sorted! Hope it works out.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Also that was BOI.

Toots

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Does this work in the same way car insurance does? Except, with car insurance you end up with hefty premiums. In this case, does 'waiver' mean that you don't need to have the mortgage protection at all?

I'm not 100%. I know when I took out my mortgage my Dad was on as borrower in name only, so we could get a higher multiple. He was 60 at the time, and despite being in good health, the life insurance companies wouldn't touch him, but the mortgage was approved because it was never intended that he'd be the one paying it back, so if God forbid he passed away, my husband and I would still be paying the mortgage.

johnny66179

I got a waiver from ulster bank, both kbc and aib declined the waiver. I wasnt able to get insurance as I had a transplant a couple of years ago. It helps if you have a good death in service benefit from your work pension, mine was 8 times salary

Bananaleaf

Ah, ok. So the life assurance can be declined because of age?

I was under the impression that the only reason for it being declined was poor health. I wouldn't ever wish to see somebody told that they couldn't buy a home, but I was curious as to why, if a bank won't provide you with assurance because you're too risky, they would then give you a waiver.

The waiver must be subject to some kind of collateral, no? If not, it seems pretty reckless on behalf of everyone involved.

CoconutSky

I have death in service benefit but it only amounts to twice my salary. The mortgage I want is only 165,000. I have went sale agreed nearly two months now, this has to be the most stressful experience ever! I hope BOI will grant me a waiver otherwise I’ll be screwed.

Bananaleaf

johnny66179 wrote: »

I got a waiver from ulster bank, both kbc and aib declined the waiver. I wasnt able to get insurance as I had a transplant a couple of years ago. It helps if you have a good death in service benefit from your work pension, mine was 8 times salary

To get a waiver, do you have to have someone willing to take on the mortgage in the event of your death?

Ps: delighted to hear you got a mortgage and hope you are well now.

johnny66179

Bananaleaf wrote: »

To get a waiver, do you have to have someone willing to take on the mortgage in the event of your death?

Ps: delighted to hear you got a mortgage and hope you are well now.

If it's a joint application and your partner can't afford the repayments then the bank will take the property. If it's a sole application the bank the take the property as nobody will be making the repayments.

I'm in very good health these days, insurance companies won't cover you until about five years post transplant though hence my need for a waiver. In my case, I asked for a waiver for myself while my wife took out insurance as normal.

To look for a waiver both you and the bank are taking a risk. For me, we felt it was okay due to my good death in service benefit from work and the fact that I will probably look for insurance anyway in a couple of years. The bank are obviously taking a risk too but you can increase their willingness to grant the waiver by reducing the LTV, having good death in service benefit or if having a joint application your partner can cover a decent portion of the mortgage.

Best of luck with the process. In our case we knew I would be declined so we asked for the waiver at the beginning of the application process. It was still a stressful time waiting for the official approval though.

CoconutSky

If I offered 20% deposit, would that make the bank look more favourably on me? I could just about stretch to 20% at a push...

johnny66179

CoconutSky wrote: »

If I offered 20% deposit, would that make the bank look more favourably on me? I could just about stretch to 20% at a push...

Its down to the bank underwriters at the end of the day, it's worth asking though if reducing the LTV would make any difference

Victor

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Does this work in the same way car insurance does? Except, with car insurance you end up with hefty premiums. In this case, does 'waiver' mean that you don't need to have the mortgage protection at all?

Without the protection of the insurance, the bank might up the interest rate and/or reduce the offer amount.

CoconutSky

I think I’d be okay with a higher interest rate. Hope it doesn’t come to that though. Also prepared for a 20% deposit

Bananaleaf

Oh I understand it a lot clearer now, thanks all.

Coconut Sky - I don't think you should have to pay higher interest on the mortgage - that would be unfair. Maybe higher rate on the mortgage protection, or, as you said, the waiver. But, making you pay a higher rate on the mortgage wouldn't be right.

Are you a sole applicant?

CoconutSky

Yeah I’m a sole applicant. I’m trying to stay positive but my mind is racing. If they refuse the waiver, I may look into Pulse insurance in the UK, but I hear that is like taking out a second mortgage + 4 week waiting time to get my G.P. to complete another PMA

Bananaleaf

CoconutSky wrote: »

Yeah I’m a sole applicant. I’m trying to stay positive but my mind is racing. If they refuse the waiver, I may look into Pulse insurance in the UK, but I hear that is like taking out a second mortgage + 4 week waiting time to get my G.P. to complete another PMA

And would a cheaper property (to make your death benefit stretch further) make a dent? Can a relative gift you more money towards a deposit?

Apologies, I'm sure these are all things you've already thought of, but I know from experience, sometimes just discussing the matter (even if you're not getting anywhere) can help to alleviate the anxiety a bit.

CoconutSky

It’s my dream property so it would be very painful to fall at the last hurdle. I’m stubbornly independent so won’t ask for financial assistance from anyone. I want to do this all on my own and preserve a little bit of autonomy and dignity.

Reputable Rog

CoconutSky wrote: »

I’ve 84% LTV

It’s such an anxiety inducing time, I can’t seem to relax. I haven’t heard of many people being granted a waiver I heard Ulster Bank grant them if you have 3 refusal letters but unsure of Bank of Ireland. I could do with some good news!

I think you will most likely get a waiver. But have you tried Irish life, they're quiet reasonable about pre existing conditions, which I'm assuming is the reason for postponement, apologies if I'm jumping to conclusions.

CoconutSky

Mental health difficulties but nothing that has caused me to miss any time off work or that has resulted in hospitalization. I would have thought being responsible and seeking treatment for my issue would have been a positive but alas it seems it is being used against me, the stigma is real!

Reputable Rog

CoconutSky wrote: »

Mental health difficulties but nothing that has caused me to miss any time off work or that has resulted in hospitalization. I would have thought being responsible and seeking treatment for my issue would have been a positive but alas it seems it is being used against me, the stigma is real!

Sorry to hear that, it is indeed a disgrace that mental health is still being singled out from physical health. The car can't work without the engine.

CoconutSky

I’m seriously contemplating making a formal complaint after all of this. It just seems very unfair. I’m a functioning, tax paying, contributing member of society that has been given full loan approval but seem to be discriminated against because of my anxiety disorder. I’m not and never have been suicidal. I don’t see how I am more at risk of dying than my ‘normal’ peers.

Bananaleaf

CoconutSky wrote: »

I’m seriously contemplating making a formal complaint after all of this. It just seems very unfair. I’m a functioning, tax paying, contributing member of society that has been given full loan approval but seem to be discriminated against because of my anxiety disorder. I’m not and never have been suicidal. I don’t see how I am more at risk of dying than my ‘normal’ peers.

Is this seriously the reason? You are being declined because of mental health problems which you are seeking treatment for? I'm actually disgusted on your behalf.
Please don't let this get you down too much. I'm not saying you should give up on your dream home at all, but maybe if you start trying to gather together a list of cons about the house, it might ease your anxiety over whether or not you will get the waiver, if that makes sense. A bit of an 'I never wanted it anyway' attitude and a focus on all the things you can do if you don't buy the property (a holiday, upgrade the car) - just to even trick your mind into giving you a break while you wait to hear back.
I am raging for you that you are being put through this. This country has a lot to learn about how they react to and deal with mental health.

For others reading this: I know I don't know the extent of the OPs mental health problem, but they are saying they have been in treatment and that they were never suicidal. Anyone reading this story would not feel encouraged to even tell the truth about their anxiety, having heard this.

CoconutSky

I know, it’s very disheartening. I should have maybe appealed their decisions. I feel very deflated by the whole experience but surprisingly it helps to discuss it here. I wanted to be up front and honest but it would seem maybe the less they know the better?

Bananaleaf

CoconutSky wrote: »

I know, it’s very disheartening. I should have maybe appealed their decisions. I feel very deflated by the whole experience but surprisingly it helps to discuss it here. I wanted to be up front and honest but it would seem maybe the less they know the better?

It would seem that way, yes. But you weren't to know this and you were right to be honest all the same, so don't beat yourself up about that.

CoconutSky

I hope I hear back Thursday / Friday, apparently the underwriters are working those days this week. It’s out of my hands now. Just have to stay positive and remain calm. Easier said than done!

fg1406

I’ve been “postponed” for life assurance too for having Endometriosis but with no symptoms. I’ve also been recently diagnosed with Generalised Anxiety Disorder which means no insurance company will touch me. It truly is horrible to be punished for asking for help and doing the right thing. I thought I could get the insurance and have it like health insurance whereby the pre-existing Illness would not be covered. I mean I don’t think Endometriosis has killed anyone yet and I’m not in anyway suicidal with GAD.

CoconutSky

fg1406 wrote: »

I’ve been “postponed” for life assurance too for having Endometriosis but with no symptoms. I’ve also been recently diagnosed with Generalised Anxiety Disorder which means no insurance company will touch me. It truly is horrible to be punished for asking for help and doing the right thing. I thought I could get the insurance and have it like health insurance whereby the pre-existing Illness would not be covered. I mean I don’t think Endometriosis has killed anyone yet and I’m not in anyway suicidal with GAD.

It’s disgraceful isn’t it. The more I think about the more unjust the whole thing feels. I’m much more than my anxiety diagnosis. That is only a small part of me.

bleary

The only thing they are interested in is whether they will have issues getting their loan repaid. Plenty of people are declined .I got a waiver from aib, had to get a couple of declines,bit stressful. Daft that they wouldn't cover me.
What worked for me was that I have no dependants so they can just take back the house if anything happens. I was told the only people who have a real issue are single income families with kids as they could never repossess the house to pay the debt.
It'll be fine just get on with thinking how you will spend the extra 50 quid a month you don't need to put into your mortgage, I'm taking a couple of years off the term with mine,,

CoconutSky

bleary wrote: »

The only thing they are interested in is whether they will have issues getting their loan repaid. Plenty of people are declined .I got a waiver from aib, had to get a couple of declines,bit stressful. Daft that they wouldn't cover me.
What worked for me was that I have no dependants so they can just take back the house if anything happens. I was told the only people who have a real issue are single income families with kids as they could never repossess the house to pay the debt.
It'll be fine just get on with thinking how you will spend the extra 50 quid a month you don't need to put into your mortgage, I'm taking a couple of years off the term with mine,,

Thanks Bleary, a voice of reason if ever there was one. Exactly, if I happen to die they can take back the apartment and sell it on. I’m a single man with no dependents. No “wife & kids” as they say. Not my cup of tea lol

Leprechaun77

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Sorry to hear that, it is indeed a disgrace that mental health is still being singled out from physical health.

Without wanting to appear insensitive to the mental health issue, it would seem that the insurance companies are treating this in the SAME manner as a physical health issue. In the early stages of most medical conditions (mental/physical), it is quite normal to get postponed cover until the condition stabilises, and there is a period without symptoms. You are not being refused cover.

In my opinion, I believe some people have a chip on their shoulder if they believe the reason for not getting a mortgage or insurance is down to a stigmatisation related to mental health. It is a pure risk assessment from an insurer in the same way as they would do with blood pressure or cholesterol.

jleavy046

Hi,
This might be helpful to someone.

I had major issues also getting mortgage life assurance. I was born with a heart defect which was corrected at birth with a senning operation. I'm reviewed yearly-18 months and have no issues.

To be honest I never thought that this would block my ability to get a mortgage, however it kinda did.

I was refused life assurance outright with two different companies. Thankfully I had a mortgage broker who knew exactly what to do. We went to Irish life and asked them to make an offer of cover, they did for the full amount but loaded the premium and offered a shorter term then what I needed.

The broker went to the mortgage company and requested a waiver for the final years of the mortgage (where there would be no life cover) and they accepted!!!!!

I've since moved mortgage companies and didn't have any issue.

I was (and am ) single, first time buyer. 30 year mortgage.

All I can say is try get any kind of mortgage protection, accept some loading and then hope that your bank can accept the term if shorter then the mortgage.

Work, if possible, with a broker.

Joe

MynameisBill

Hi OP,

Did you get the mortgage protection waived?

Myself and my fiance are in the same position with BOI now. They've declined the waiver on the assumption that I won't be able to pay the mortgage by myself if the worst was to happen to him. However our mortgage contact has gone back to them and explained he has Death in Service etc so I would only have a small amount of manageable mortgage to pay but they are still refusing on the grounds that he is not chained to that job and so could move to a job where they don't have Death in Service.

Vim Fuego

This is a somewhat related question - I understand why the banks want life assurance in place of course and know it’s a requirement to draw down a mortgage. However, what’s stopping anyone from cancelling it once they own their house?

Let’s assume you already had a great death in service benefit with work that would cover your mortgage, would you want to continue paying on a loaded policy?

MynameisBill

Vim Fuego wrote: »

This is a somewhat related question - I understand why the banks want life assurance in place of course and know it’s a requirement to draw down a mortgage. However, what’s stopping anyone from cancelling it once they own their house?

Let’s assume you already had a great death in service benefit with work that would cover your mortgage, would you want to continue paying on a loaded policy?

I'm not sure there is anything there to stop you but anyone could change jobs after drawing down a mortgage/go to part time hours etc, there is nothing to prevent this either.

CoconutSky

MynameisBill wrote: »

Hi OP,

Did you get the mortgage protection waived?

Myself and my fiance are in the same position with BOI now. They've declined the waiver on the assumption that I won't be able to pay the mortgage by myself if the worst was to happen to him. However our mortgage contact has gone back to them and explained he has Death in Service etc so I would only have a small amount of manageable mortgage to pay but they are still refusing on the grounds that he is not chained to that job and so could move to a job where they don't have Death in Service.

Hi,

Yes, eventually after a lot of back and forth they agreed to give me the waiver. They wanted me to reduce mortgage term from 35yrs to 20yrs however. I agreed. Also I am a sole applicant so that worked in my favour. The banks don’t want to be in a position where they have to take possession of a house if you die and your partner / kids are living in the house. I hope it works out for you. I also have death in service benefit so I made sure I highlighted that. I got a letter from work to state what the benefit entailed. Best of luck with it, I know only too well how extremely stressful it is.

spaceHopper

CoconutSky wrote: »

Hi,

Yes, eventually after a lot of back and forth they agreed to give me the waiver. They wanted me to reduce mortgage term from 35yrs to 20yrs however. I agreed. Also I am a sole applicant so that worked in my favour. The banks don’t want to be in a position where they have to take possession of a house if you die and your partner / kids are living in the house. I hope it works out for you. I also have death in service benefit so I made sure I highlighted that. I got a letter from work to state what the benefit entailed. Best of luck with it, I know only too well how extremely stressful it is.

Well done have you moved in yet?

Let the dust settle and then in your own time you could look into insurance I found lion.ie very good. I have genetic haemochromatosis, I load to much iron in my blood, it can destroy you liver over time but if it's diagnosed early it's easy to manage and makes no difference to you life expectancy. However I was newly diagnosed and in treatment. We where going for a mortgage.

I got a letter from the consultant, letter from nurse in the clinic I attend, MRI scan of liver.. all documented and gave it to the bank insurance guy. I the background I'd gone to Nick at Lion insurance https://lion.ie/ I found them very good. At least you are dealing with one person and he's probable seen it before.

MynameisBill

CoconutSky wrote: »

Hi,

Yes, eventually after a lot of back and forth they agreed to give me the waiver. They wanted me to reduce mortgage term from 35yrs to 20yrs however. I agreed. Also I am a sole applicant so that worked in my favour. The banks don’t want to be in a position where they have to take possession of a house if you die and your partner / kids are living in the house. I hope it works out for you. I also have death in service benefit so I made sure I highlighted that. I got a letter from work to state what the benefit entailed. Best of luck with it, I know only too well how extremely stressful it is.

That's great, I'm so delighted it all worked out for you in the end! December/start of January were the worst months to be dealing with this with all the holidays so I can imagine how stressed you were.

Yes unfortunately it is me they are worried about. We've to wait a few days for appeal but in the meantime we are applying to other lenders. Some of which seem to be shocked that we can't get the waiver so fingers crossed it works out.

CoconutSky

MynameisBill wrote: »

That's great, I'm so delighted it all worked out for you in the end! December/start of January were the worst months to be dealing with this with all the holidays so I can imagine how stressed you were.

Yes unfortunately it is me they are worried about. We've to wait a few days for appeal but in the meantime we are applying to other lenders. Some of which seem to be shocked that we can't get the waiver so fingers crossed it works out.

Apparently ULSTER BANK are better at granting waivers? Thankfully I didn’t have to go down the route of applying to another lender as my stress levels were maxed out at that stage. Just give me the ****ing money already! It’s not a process I would wish to repeat anytime soon. I move in next month. Can’t wait! Good luck with your application - it normally always works out in the end but they make you jump through every possible hoop before hand. Each day you will be faced with another unforeseen obstacle but stick with it, be resilient and like everything in life this too shall pass...

johnny66179

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I managed to get a waiver from Ulster Bank but was declined by AIB. It depends on the bank underwriters at the end of the day.

johnny66179

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I managed to get a waiver from Ulster Bank but was declined by AIB. It depends on the bank underwriters at the end of the day.