Primary Residence

walledgarden23

I will receive a gift of a half acre site where I plan to live in a mobile home while I build a house at a cost of 40,000 euro.
Since the money is being spent on two primary residences and it's below the 50,000 euro means allowance, is there any need to involve the Department of Social Protection in this?

splinter65

walledgarden23 wrote: »

I will receive a gift of a half acre site where I plan to live in a mobile home while I build a house at a cost of 40,000 euro.
Since the money is being spent on two primary residences and it's below the 50,000 euro means allowance, is there any need to involve the Department of Social Protection in this?

If you have any savings/capital sum at all you have to tell them about it.
They need a current statement from the financial institution where your money is.
The means test for JSA is €20000 for DA it’s €50000.

Squatter

walledgarden23 wrote: »

I will receive a gift of a half acre site where I plan to live in a mobile home while I build a house at a cost of 40,000 euro.
Since the money is being spent on two primary residences and it's below the 50,000 euro means allowance, is there any need to involve the Department of Social Protection in this?

Are there any CAT implications for this gift? If so, then you may need to tell Revenue.

Nomis21

If the gift value is less than the permitted amount of savings for his welfare payment, why does the op have to inform anyone?

Peregrinus

The gift is the half-acre site; we don't know what that's worth.

Whatever it's worth, if that sum, when aggregated with the OP's other assets, exceeds the capital sum permitted by the relevant means test, obviously the DSP would like to hear about it (and are entitled to).

It's likely that the OP already has other assets, because he proposes to spend 40k on building a house, and there's no suggestion that anyone is gifting him that.

splinter65

Nomis21 wrote: »

If the gift value is less than the permitted amount of savings for his welfare payment, why does the op have to inform anyone?

Because the question on the form asks you do you have ANY savings. It doesn’t mention an amount.
The answer is either yes or no.
It then goes on to ask for details and documentary evidence.

Nomis21

splinter65 wrote: »

Because the question on the form asks you do you have ANY savings. It doesn’t mention an amount.
The answer is either yes or no.
It then goes on to ask for details and documentary evidence.

Yes I agree that when applying for a Social Welfare payment it is necessary to tell about all savings and property on the form.

But I am assuming here that the OP is already receiving a welfare payment, in which case if the total assets are less than the maximum allowed for his payment, he would not have to tell DSP and in fact there would not be any form to fill in for this.

splinter65

Nomis21 wrote: »

Yes I agree that when applying for a Social Welfare payment it is necessary to tell about all savings and property on the form.

But I am assuming here that the OP is already receiving a welfare payment, in which case if the total assets are less than the maximum allowed for his payment, he would not have to tell DSP and in fact there would not be any form to fill in for this.

When you accept a SW payment you agree that you will “notify the Dept of any change in your circumstances”.
Receiving a gift if this magnitude wild certainly be considered a “change in circumstances” of which you would have to notify the dept.

Squatter

Nomis21 wrote: »

Yes I agree that when applying for a Social Welfare payment it is necessary to tell about all savings and property on the form.

But I am assuming here that the OP is already receiving a welfare payment, in which case if the total assets are less than the maximum allowed for his payment, he would not have to tell DSP and in fact there would not be any form to fill in for this.

Thing here is that you don't second guess the Department of Social Welfare - if they tell you to do something, you do it!

Then you let them make the decisions.

It's their pitch, their ball and their rules. Play smart with them and you may lose - the house always wins.

Nomis21

Squatter wrote: »

Thing here is that you don't second guess the Department of Social Welfare - if they tell you to do something, you do it!

Then you let them make the decisions.

It's their pitch, their ball and their rules. Play smart with them and you may lose - the house always wins.

I agree with you squatter, it is no use to get into disputes with welfare but nowhere on the welfare website does it say that a claimant must inform them if they receive any gift or inheritance that is within the allowed amounts. They ask only to be informed of any money from working or for any amounts or assets that will make the claimant exceed total allowed assets of 20K for jobseekers or 50K for Disability payments.

However they do have the right to inspect bank statements at any time and can then ask where any deposits came from.

njs030

Nomis21 wrote: »

I agree with you squatter, it is no use to get into disputes with welfare but nowhere on the welfare website does it say that a claimant must inform them if they receive any gift or inheritance that is within the allowed amounts. They ask only to be informed of any money from working or for any amounts or assets that will make the claimant exceed total allowed assets of 20K for jobseekers or 50K for Disability payments.

However they do have the right to inspect bank statements at any time and can then ask where any deposits came from.

No they ask to be notified of changes in circumstances as said above. A gift like that is certainly a change in circumstances.

splinter65

Nomis21 wrote: »

I agree with you squatter, it is no use to get into disputes with welfare but nowhere on the welfare website does it say that a claimant must inform them if they receive any gift or inheritance that is within the allowed amounts. They ask only to be informed of any money from working or for any amounts or assets that will make the claimant exceed total allowed assets of 20K for jobseekers or 50K for Disability payments.

However they do have the right to inspect bank statements at any time and can then ask where any deposits came from.

When you are awarded a payment, the letter of award issues the diktat about “change in circumstances”.
It covers a multitude of occasions including moving house, getting married/cohabiting, starting work, coming into money.
When they catch up with you(eventually) and find that you are in an “overpayment” and you protest that you didn’t know you had to tell them that you’d got married to a doctor, they’ll reference the “change of circumstances” and the game is up.

Nomis21

splinter65 wrote: »

When you are awarded a payment, the letter of award issues the diktat about “change in circumstances”.
It covers a multitude of occasions including moving house, getting married/cohabiting, starting work, coming into money.
When they catch up with you(eventually) and find that you are in an “overpayment” and you protest that you didn’t know you had to tell them that you’d got married to a doctor, they’ll reference the “change of circumstances” and the game is up.

I don't want to labour the point but moving house, getting married/cohabiting, starting work are obviously changes in circumstances which will affect ones payment.

Receiving a gift from a family member will not be a change in circumstances unless it puts the total assets of the recipient over the allowed limit.

I received money into a bank account and when I was asked about the payments by a visiting DSP inspector (when I applied for DA), I told him they were gifts from family and he accepted that without further question.

Perhaps though it doesn't do any harm to tell them about gifts as it will show on a bank account and might have to be explained away at a later date as it was in my case.

njs030

Nomis21 wrote: »

I don't want to labour the point but moving house, getting married/cohabiting, starting work are obviously changes in circumstances which will affect ones payment.

Receiving a gift from a family member will not be a change in circumstances unless it puts the total assets of the recipient over the allowed limit.

I received money into a bank account and when I was asked about the payments by a visiting DSP inspector (when I applied for DA), I told him they were gifts from family and he accepted that without further question.

The important point here being your gift was pre award the ops is after they have signed an agreement that they would tell sw if they had a change in circumstances.

I have a feeling revenue and sw share files in which case the op will be found out fairly fast anyway.

Nomis21

notjustsweet wrote: »

The important point here being your gift was pre award the ops is after they have signed an agreement that they would tell sw if they had a change in circumstances.

I have a feeling revenue and sw share files in which case the op will be found out fairly fast anyway.

Actually I was on JA when I applied for DA

But in conclusion I don't think it's a bad idea to tell DSP about ANY money received (even if it is allowed) because it saves any suspicion at a later date.