Turas Nua and Disability Appeal

okiss

I have a friend who is on the austic spectrum. Over the past 15 years they have had a few jobs. They have lost jobs, been asked to leave jobs and had had a few work contracts that were not extended. My friend is not good at timed tasks and cannot multi task. They have also had problems with some work colleagues in the past. My friend has been unemployed for a few years but have had a few job interviews. Aprox 4 months ago their name was given to Turas Nua. My friend has met this woman who I will call Mary.

My friend told Mary that they have applied for disability allowance and that they are on the austic spectrum. My friend was denined disability allowance so they appealed this. My friend has send proof that the disability appeals section have received their appeal to Mary. They have also sent this to the case officer in their local social welfare office. My friend has not gone into detail with Mary over how being on the austic spectrum effects them in regards to jobs. They have not given Mary a copy of their CV either.

Mary mean while is still asking my friend to meet her. At this stage my friend is getting very stressed out over this. They live in an area with poor employment prospects. In the past they have got sick due to trying hard to stay in employment. My friend also went out on sick leave due to stress because of a bullying boss in the past. Over the past few months my friend has been dealing with some personal issues also.

My friend though once Mary had prof that they had made an appeal to the disability appeals section they would not have to attend Turas Nua appointments until a decision was made by the disability appeals.

At this stage my friend does not know what to do. If they don't attend Turas Nua their worried that their social welfare will be stopped. If they attended Turas Nua they will have to apply for the very few jobs that are out their. Their CV is not great due to their jobs history in the past so it is even hard for them to get a job interview. They feel that they will be put under a lot of pressure to look for/take employment just so Turas Nua can tick off another box.

Can anyone here give me some advice for my friend.

Turnipman

okiss wrote: »

I have a friend who is on the austic spectrum. Over the past 15 years they have had a few jobs. They have lost jobs, been asked to leave jobs and had had a few work contracts that were not extended. My friend is not good at timed tasks and cannot multi task. They have also had problems with some work colleagues in the past. My friend has been unemployed for a few years but have had a few job interviews. Aprox 4 months ago their name was given to Turas Nua. My friend has met this woman who I will call Mary.

My friend told Mary that they have applied for disability allowance and that they are on the austic spectrum. My friend was denined disability allowance so they appealed this. My friend has send proof that the disability appeals section have received their appeal to Mary. They have also sent this to the case officer in their local social welfare office. My friend has not gone into detail with Mary over how being on the austic spectrum effects them in regards to jobs. They have not given Mary a copy of their CV either.

Mary mean while is still asking my friend to meet her. At this stage my friend is getting very stressed out over this. They live in an area with poor employment prospects. In the past they have got sick due to trying hard to stay in employment. My friend also went out on sick leave due to stress because of a bullying boss in the past. Over the past few months my friend has been dealing with some personal issues also.

My friend though once Mary had prof that they had made an appeal to the disability appeals section they would not have to attend Turas Nua appointments until a decision was made by the disability appeals.

At this stage my friend does not know what to do. If they don't attend Turas Nua their worried that their social welfare will be stopped. If they attended Turas Nua they will have to apply for the very few jobs that are out their. Their CV is not great due to their jobs history in the past so it is even hard for them to get a job interview. They feel that they will be put under a lot of pressure to look for/take employment just so Turas Nua can tick off another box.

Can anyone here give me some advice for my friend.

OK, let's peel away the human element and look at the situation from the DSP's perspective:

Your friend is getting a weekly payment from the DSP on the basis that he is available for work, fit for work and actively seeking work. (If that isn't his true situation then he's misleading the DSP). That is why the DSP has referred him to Tús Nua.

Furthermore, if your friend's DA appeal is turned down then presumably he will remain on JA, in which case the Tús Nua referral will remain valid.

At root, what you/your friend are effectively looking for is for the DSP/Tús Nua to make an assumption that effectively second guesses the outcome of their own appeal process. They can't do that.

In passing, you mention that your friend hasn't yet informed Mary of his problems or shown her his CV - so it appears that she's being expected to make a decision as to his employment prospects without being in possession of the full facts. Remember, he's got nothing to lose by making her aware of his situation - indeed knowing it it may enable her to give him a bit of leeway in terms of forcing him to look for unsuitable jobs.

But the bottom line is that, if he wants to keep being paid JA, then he'll just have to do what the DSP tells him to.

nothing

If your friend is unavailable for work, I'd suggest moving to illness benefit, especially if their gp agrees this is the case.

Speedwell

"Autistic".

Suggest to your friend that they send in their CV and apply for jobs and relax. They should be up front about their autism in the interview and let the interviewer make the decision. Best case scenario, they might find something they are a good fit for. Worst case scenario, they don't get a job but they've proved to them that they're trying to.

I'm on the spectrum and my husband is also, and while there isn't much to do here in Sligo, I have a steady work history in IT and am working, and he has just completed a culinary course that he qualified for because he was on jobseekers'. Come to think of it, maybe your friend should take the chance to get some training in something they like the sound of while they can.

Turnipman

nothing wrote: »

If your friend is unavailable for work, I'd suggest moving to illness benefit, especially if their gp agrees this is the case.

He probably wouldn't be eligible for illness benefit seeing as the poster states that "My friend has been unemployed for a few years "

splinter65

nothing wrote: »

If your friend is unavailable for work, I'd suggest moving to illness benefit, especially if their gp agrees this is the case.

I don’t think illness Benefit is a goer, doubt if the friend has the PRSI contributions.

nothing

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t think illness Benefit is a goer, doubt if the friend has the PRSI contributions.

Apologies, didn't realise ja was excluded from illness benefit, made an assumption.

Wanderer78

your friend will need to have an assessment done by a clinical psychologist to confirm their autistic diagnoses, in order to be truly considered for disability allowance. this can be done publicly or privately. id recommend going privately but this can cost in excess of 300 euro, public waiting lists for such things can be very long.

your friend is eligible for illness benefit, this will need to be applied for in conjunction with their doctor. they can claim this for a maximum of 2 years, while submitting weekly/monthly certificates of illness(from their doctor), to the department of social welfare. during their time of claiming illness benefit, they can apply, repeal and/or reapply for disability allowance. be aware, illness benefit can cause claimant issues for some, even reducing some benefits, so get advice before applying. their local citizens information office can be very helpful in such matters.

your friends issues are actually some of the most common causes of unemployment, in particular long term unemployment. organisations such as turas nua and seetec are examples how not to approach these issues, in fact they exasperate them. sadly many of our politicians and policy makers dont understand this, and as far as i can see, dont care. turas nua will probably not care for your friends well being as they are contracted by the department of social welfare to reduce the unemployment numbers, they are effectively paid per person reduction on the live register. i know somebody that was a very early client of turas nua, they would not accept a doctors certificate of illness, something which is actually illegal. they eventually just walked away from turas nua after applying for illness benefit, and as far as im aware, they were never contacted by them again, and this never effected their welfare payments thereafter.

might help:

http://www.aspireireland.ie/cmsWP/

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/

also some good reading on how autism affects day to day living, important to note, not all autistic people have the same traits or are effected in similar ways, i.e. one size does not fit all!:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057788772

njs030

You don't have to have a diagnosis to apply for DA its paid on how the person illness affects their ability to work.. Why would you think an expensive diagnosis would change that?

Wanderer78

notjustsweet wrote: »

You don't have to have a diagnosis to apply for DA.

apologies i didnt necessarily mean that, but it does help a lot, it could be the difference of a successful application or not

njs030

Wanderer78 wrote: »

apologies i didnt necessarily mean that, but it does help a lot, it could be the difference of a successful application or not

Sorry I was editing as you replied! I was genuinely interested in why you thought it would help an application!

splinter65

Wanderer78 wrote: »

your friend will need to have an assessment done by a clinical psychologist to confirm their autistic diagnoses, in order to be truly considered for disability allowance. this can be done publicly or privately. id recommend going privately but this can cost in excess of 300 euro, public waiting lists for such things can be very long.

your friend is eligible for illness benefit, this will need to be applied for in conjunction with their doctor. they can claim this for a maximum of 2 years, while submitting weekly/monthly certificates of illness(from their doctor), to the department of social welfare. during their time of claiming illness benefit, they can apply, repeal and/or reapply for disability allowance. be aware, illness benefit can cause claimant issues for some, even reducing some benefits, so get advice before applying. their local citizens information office can be very helpful in such matters.

your friends issues are actually some of the most common causes of unemployment, in particular long term unemployment. organisations such as turas nua and seetec are examples how not to approach these issues, in fact they exasperate them. sadly many of our politicians and policy makers dont understand this, and as far as i can see, dont care. turas nua will probably not care for your friends well being as they are contracted by the department of social welfare to reduce the unemployment numbers, they are effectively paid per person reduction on the live register. i know somebody that was a very early client of turas nua, they would not accept a doctors certificate of illness, something which is actually illegal. they eventually just walked away from turas nua after applying for illness benefit, and as far as im aware, they were never contacted by them again, and this never effected their welfare payments thereafter.

might help:

http://www.aspireireland.ie/cmsWP/

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/

also some good reading on how autism affects day to day living, important to note, not all autistic people have the same traits or are effected in similar ways, i.e. one size does not fit all!:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057788772

No entitlement to illness Benefit.
Illness Benefit is awarded based on PRSI in relevant years which the friend hasn’t got.
DA is the payment that has been refused. I’m sure SWA was paid while the DA was being processed but will have stopped on the refusal.
The CWO has the discretion to continue paying SWA while the Appeal is being heard but on this occasion has decided not to.
The friend must throw the whole kitchen sink at the appeal or forget about DA.
What’s often a clincher is not yet another rather ambiguous report from a specialist but rather a letter from the applicant setting out how his condition prevents him from functioning on a day to day basis.
In any SW system there are supports:
For people who are looking for work.
For people unfit for work
For people too old to work
For people parenting small children alone
For people in low paid jobs
For people caring for others full time.
We have that here.
If the friend wants to be considered unfit for work then he will have to make it clear to SW and TN why that is.
TN can’t help him if they don’t know that he’s not well.

Wanderer78

notjustsweet wrote: »

Sorry I was editing as you replied! I was genuinely interested in why you thought it would help an application!

it could be the thing that pushes an application over the line, so to speak. i know of people that were recommended to do this, by their doctor, and it worked.

Wanderer78

splinter65 wrote: »

No entitlement to illness Benefit.
Illness Benefit is awarded based on PRSI in relevant years which the friend hasn’t got.
DA is the payment that has been refused. I’m sure SWA was paid while the DA was being processed but will have stopped on the refusal.
The CWO has the discretion to continue paying SWA while the Appeal is being heard but on this occasion has decided not to.

i know people that were long term unemployed and received illness benefit, for 2 years, with no social welfare credits. this has been very recent to. the application form from their doctor was the same application form that a working person receives, if applying for illness benefit.

splinter65

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i know people that were long term unemployed and received illness benefit, for 2 years, with no social welfare credits. this has been very recent to. the application form from their doctor was the same application form that a working person receives, if applying for illness benefit.

I don’t know what you think they got but it wasn’t IB.
Please carefully read this:

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/sw119.pdf

Before advising the poster to waste everyone’s time filling a MC1
It’s right on pages 3 and 4.

Wanderer78

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t know what you think they got but it wasn’t IB.
Please carefull read this:

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/sw119.pdf

Before advising the poster to waste everyone’s time filling a MC1

thank you, it was indeed illness benefit, and they applied for it as explained earlier. i know another long term unemployed person who recently applied for it via the above method, it was granted

splinter65

Wanderer78 wrote: »

thank you, it was indeed illness benefit, and they applied for it as explained earlier. i know another long term unemployed person who recently applied for it via the above method, it was granted

You just read SWs own instructions re IB and you’ve disregarded them.
What I think has happened is that your aware of a long term unememployed person becoming ill or otherwise incapacitated and not being fit for work.
The procedure there is for that person to apply for IB as a way of informing JSA that they’re not fit anymore.
The person is then means tested again, this time for SWA ( it’s different to JSA) and put on the SWA until good health is restored.
Certs must go in every week.
Being on SWA is not the same as IB.
In this case the DA has been refused and either the friend hasn’t asked for SWA while the Appeal is ongoing, or has, and has been refused.

njs030

Wanderer78 wrote: »

it could be the thing that pushes an application over the line, so to speak. i know of people that were recommended to do this, by their doctor, and it worked.

Having a diagnosis of an illness wouldn't make a difference to the severity of that illness or the amount it affects your ability to work which is what a DA payment is supposed to be based on.

"I heard of people" type comments are always a bit urban myth as far as I'm concerned, in this case it shouldn't affect the outcome any way.

If it is true then the DA section needs to make it clear what illnesses are being paid on diagnosis.

splinter65

notjustsweet wrote: »

Having a diagnosis of an illness wouldn't make a difference to the severity of that illness or the amount it affects your ability to work which is what a DA payment is supposed to be based on.

"I heard of people" type comments are always a bit urban myth as far as I'm concerned, in this case it shouldn't affect the outcome any way.

If it is true then the DA section needs to make it clear what illnesses are being paid on diagnosis.

No DA is paid on diagnosis of any illness.
I can have a diagnosis of MS and be fully fit for work, Mary can have a diagnosis and be in a wheelchair.

Gatling

splinter65 wrote: »

No DA is paid on diagnosis of any illness.
I can have a diagnosis of MS and be fully fit for work, Mary can have a diagnosis and be in a wheelchair.

But you need an actual diagnosis to begin with along with medical evidence to back up the claim ,
You cant just apply and self declare your not fit to ,
Actually you do have to an illness or injury that will last longer than 12 months .

qualify for Disability Allowance (DA) you must:

Have an injury, disease or physical or mental disability that has continued, or may be expected to continue, for at least one year
As a result of this disability be substantially restricted in undertaking work that would otherwise be suitable for a person of your age, experience and qualifications.

splinter65

Gatling wrote: »

But you need an actual diagnosis to begin with along with medical evidence to back up the claim ,
You cant just apply and self declare your not fit to ,
Actually you do have to an illness or injury that will last longer than 12 months .

qualify for Disability Allowance (DA) you must:

Have an injury, disease or physical or mental disability that has continued, or may be expected to continue, for at least one year
As a result of this disability be substantially restricted in undertaking work that would otherwise be suitable for a person of your age, experience and qualifications.

Yes obviously you need a diagnosis of some illness or to have had a life changing accident in order to get DA.
The GP needs to complete the medicalvreport in the form.
What we are saying is that a diagnosis of say heart disease or MS or depression is not enough in itself to secure a claimant DA.
You have to demonstrate how you are severely restricted from taking up work for the next 12 months.
I don’t think anyone ever suggested that you could declare yourself unfit for work.

njs030

splinter65 wrote: »

No DA is paid on diagnosis of any illness.
I can have a diagnosis of MS and be fully fit for work, Mary can have a diagnosis and be in a wheelchair.

That's what I thought, thanks for clarifying!

Wanderer78

to clarify,

the person i know was on jobseekers allowance for a couple of years, was requested to attend turas nua, after a couple of visits, was recommended to apply for illness benefit by turas nua contact, which they did so. was granted it and remained on it for 2 years while supplying doctors certificates, firstly on a weekly basis, but after some time, monthly. they then applied for disability allowance and was recommended by the department of social protection to apply for supplementary welfare while the application was being processed. this to was granted, they remained on this for a couple of months until there application of disability allowance was eventually granted after a couple of months.

im aware this approach may not work for the ops friend for the reasons that have been explained earlier, but i would still recommend them to call into their local citizens information center to clarify options.