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International funding for Irish Referenda



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad

    i will answer.
    anyone can believe what they like. however when acting on that belief causes undue harm to others especially when they cannot defend themselves then those beliefs must be prohibited via the law from being acted on, as is effectively being done in this case (even if some are traveling over seas to get around it)
    many of us who are against abortion actually changed our mind to such a view based on the arguments stacking up whereas the argument we supported originally began to not stack up when put to the test. the catholic church had nothing to do with it, many of us aren't even religious. i and i'm sure many others on the pro-life side voted yes to ssm and don't care about contraception because we use it (yes that's right, we are ordinary people just like you)
    there is no bann on choice for pregnant women and if you want to have a go at the catholic church then there are plenty of reasons but they aren't relevant to this debate and non-catholics should not be used to have a go at the catholic church just because we disagree with the pro-choice view.
    i think that to debate this further then the other thread here may be more suitable?

    Catholic doctrine is brainwashed from a young age. People who no longer practice cannot claim their core beliefs were not shaped by the Catholic doctrine. The possibility of the preponderance of Catholic views from those with Catholic upbringings is mainly influenced by anything other than that upbringing is statistically negligable.

    The authoritarian nature of the Catholic church and thus the fundamentalist beliefs of its adherents is relavent. One pro-life group has hired Pinto which uses psycographic manipulation of people through social media and the techniques of Cambridge Analytica. An electronic version of what the Catholic church has being doing to children for centuries, if you will.

    CA is being investigated for manipulating the US election with Russian coordiantion. It is also being investigated with Brexit. Any campaigns that CA is involved with also involve covert help from billionaire Robert Mercer.

    THis Mercer/Russia alliance uses vast networks designed to control discourse on social media, to inflame RW viewpoints and sow doubt amongst others.

    They are anti-LGBT, anti-SSM, anti-science, anti-women, anti everything but rich white men.
    This is the money behind the pro 'life' campaign and their beliefs.

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75

    So it looks like save the 8th are having their ads paid for directly from the US and thus loopholing Irish /SIPO Regulations. this is alarming given this weeks revelations about Cambridge analytica running trumps campaign and pushing brexit. An offshoot of that company has been hired by the pro life campaign here.
    Foreign interference ahoy.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad

    david75 wrote: »
    So it looks like save the 8th are having their ads paid for directly from the US and thus loopholing Irish /SIPO Regulations. this is alarming given this weeks revelations about Cambridge analytica running trumps campaign and pushing brexit. An offshoot of that company has been hired by the pro life campaign here.
    Foreign interference ahoy.

    Former Cambridge Analytica employee Thomas Bortwick is CEO of Kanto will head the operation. But like CA, Kanto is a shell company with no assets and few employees. There are several like this including Emerdata set up last month whose directors are Alex Nix and Rebekah Mercer of CA and her sister Jennifer.
    These are all fronts for the same active measures operation: A far right syndicate involvining the Mercers and Steve Bannon and helped by Russian active measures.
    And I wish this was a conspiracy theory.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite

    I see Colm O'Gorman is now trying to "have his cake and eat it" by registering with Sipo as a "third party" to allow political campaigning, while still refusing to comply with the restrictions on donations applicable for third parties.
    O'Gorman wrote:
    “A campaign that targets the electorate is a campaign that involves elections and campaigns and we absolutely recognise that rules and regulations can be put in place by the State and we’ve no difficulty in complying with them.”
    Amnesty, which has refused to return the money, has received permission to challenge the order by Mr Justice Seamus Noonan. The case is expected to be heard later this month.
    Separately, Amnesty has registered with Sipo as a third party, which means it can use donations for campaign purposes. Organisations that aren’t political parties but who receive donations of more than €100 for political purposes must register with the watchdog.
    As a third party he cannot accept any foreign donations, or any donation from an Irish corporate donor of more than €200.

    Also his claim that the €137,000 George Soros donation was spent before today's official launch of the campaign is irrelevant. The Sipo legislation does not take into account when or what the money was spent on. It is concerned with the donation received, and the intent of the donor.

    It also seems that Sipo have evidence proving the intent of the donor, despite both Soros and O'Gorman conspiring to hide the true purpose of the money.
    Catherine Sanz and Michael Cogley, the Times Ireland edition, reported:
    The OSF (Open Society Foundation) contradicted a statement issued by Sipo last Wednesday claiming that Sipo had received written confirmation from the donor that the funding was explicitly for political purposes. Sherry Perreault, head of ethics and lobbying at Sipo, said there had been “a bit of wordsmithing” from the OSF on the matter and that Sipo had verified documents relating to the donation.
    “There was documentary evidence received by the commission which was verified by the donor,” she said. “By virtue of verifying this information, the donor essentially clarified the intent.”
    Anyway, as Sipo make clear..
    Sipo wrote:
    Third Parties must register with the Standards Commission. The definition of political purposes is extremely wide and, as well as referring to elections and referenda, it also covers any campaign which supports or opposes any policy of the Government or a public authority, including a local authority

    Maybe Amnesty Ireland's lawyers are intending to drag out a legal challenge until (a) the referendum is over and (b) the money is all gone cannot be returned to Soros.
    In which case its a sad, cynical and dishonest tactic.