200km motorway driving

lkkev80

I am starting a new job soon which will mean my commute will be 200km per day, almost all on motorway (currently 60 km). I have '10 focus at the moment with 95k miles so I want to trade this in a few months for something with low milage and is more comfortable. My budget is about e15k with the focus to trade on top of this (so maybe e20k?). Other consideration is that I have 2 small kids so need to haul them around from time to time.

Currently thinking of 161 Passat (1.6 diesel) and maybe going over to UK myself if I cannot get one here in my budget.

What do you think of this? Is there a better option? any advise greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Greybottle

Get an auto with cruise control whatever you do. Also consider an estate if you've the two kids, they also tend to hold their value better if it's a Passat, A6, 5-Series etc.. You'll probably need a diesel at those mileages unless you want to go electric and can charge the car at work.

Do the maths beforehand. A lot of it will depend on how long you will keep the car and depreciation etc.

The inside noise of the car can be the biggest wear at those distances, so check up on opinions and experiences with that and tyre rumble etc.

Idbatterim

lkkev80 wrote: »

I am starting a new job soon which will mean my commute will be 200km per day, almost all on motorway (currently 60 km). I have '10 focus at the moment with 95k miles so I want to trade this in a few months for something with low milage and is more comfortable. My budget is about e15k with the focus to trade on top of this (so maybe e20k?). Other consideration is that I have 2 small kids so need to haul them around from time to time.

Currently thinking of 161 Passat (1.6 diesel) and maybe going over to UK myself if I cannot get one here in my budget.

What do you think of this? Is there a better option? any advise greatly appreciated.

Cheers

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-s-class-s320-cdi-v6-only-145kms-new-nct/17426794

boardsuser1

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-s-class-s320-cdi-v6-only-145kms-new-nct/17426794

The tax :eek:

Idbatterim

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

The tax :eek:

I'm after buying an s500. Op mentioned 20 k budget. Say he buys one at that rate , with that mileage he's doing, the car will have to be given away virtually if he keeps it for even a year or two. There is virtually no depreciation and probably no loan interest on that merc. It's going to be incomparable to any of the cars the op mentioned in terms of comfort.

Running costs total will probably the the same for the first 4-5 years v a 15k car... in an incomparable car

If it's motorway speed driving the big engine will be more efficient. My merc now sits at 1500rpm at 110kmph v at least 2300 in the manual 2.5 BMW ...

737max

get something with a 30000 km service interval, not 20000km as your days off have value and you don't want to be in a garage on those days even with the most reliable of cars.
My suggestion is a facelift 6 speed Megane 1.5dci estate with Bose sound system which will easily do between 4.5 and 5 litres per 100km on a trip like that and will be more comfortable than a Focus. If it is motorway mostly then an autobox is not needed but cruise control will make life more pleasant. the facelift car is quieter than the earlier one.
The boot is huge and the seats are comfortable. motor tax would be about one eight of that s-class.

bazz26

Lads, the OP is looking along the likes of 1.6 diesel Passats. I don't think there is any chance of them being interested in 12 year old Merc S Classes. I think we need to keep some perspective here.

Idbatterim

bazz26 wrote: »

Lads, the OP is looking along the likes of 1.6 diesel Passats. I don't think there is any chance of them being interested in 12 year old Merc S Classes. I think we need to keep some perspective here.

Buzz I just don't agree with the line of thinking, that admittedly most others do. With 200km a day, the car he buys which he no doubt will keep for a few years, will be worthless. Why not buy a car that is now worthless, luxury, cost a fortune and only considerable cost is tax? Why don't people care about depreciation and loan interest, they are the biggest waste of money, absolute money up in smoke !

ELM327

Idbatterim wrote: »

Buzz I just don't agree with the line of thinking, that admittedly most others do. With 200km a day, the car he buys which he no doubt will keep for a few years, will be worthless. Why not buy a car that is now worthless, luxury, cost a fortune and only considerable cost is tax? Why don't people care about depreciation and loan interest, they are the biggest waste of money, absolute money up in smoke !

+1 I agree with you and disagree with buzz.
The biggest expense in doing a lot of miles is depreciation. Before I got my EV I did 40-50k miles a year in diesel cars. When I have that driving pattern I never spent more than 2k on a car. Once you have a nice car with cruise control comfy seats and good spec with good economy that's all that matters.

Whether you spend a few k on a merc S class diesel or 10-15k on a newer passat diesel you will be giving the car away for nothing at the end of the day. I'd prefer to lose 5k driving a merc than 15k driving a passat 1.6.

bazz26

Idbatterim wrote: »

Buzz I just don't agree with the line of thinking, that admittedly most others do. With 200km a day, the car he buys which he no doubt will keep for a few years, will be worthless. Why not buy a car that is now worthless, luxury, cost a fortune and only considerable cost is tax? Why don't people care about depreciation and loan interest, they are the biggest waste of money, absolute money up in smoke !

Because some people just prefer to have a newer car on the road. If nobody bought new cars and just worried about depreciation all the time then as a result there would be no second hand cars to buy. Also people have a knack of running their cars on shoestring budgets when it comes to maintenance. They put the cheapest tyres and cheapest oil into their cars until they change it for another one. Their car is basically a tool for the job. While a 12 year old S Class costs 6k to buy now it's still an 80k car to maintain and fix especially if something goes wrong.

Also depreciation is only relevant at selling time to many people. Day to day spending money on keeping a S Class on the road compared to a Passat is just more noticeable to a lot of people when you exclude depreciation. Yes depreciation is the white elephant in the room but as I said depreciation is only relevant to a lot of people when they go to change car.

Idbatterim

I just personally don't care about the age of the car. This is what I don't get. How can people be a reg snob and not a bad snob?

If you are both, fair enough. But the reg snobbery while driving a relative **** car compared to a luxury car. Perplexes me ...

bazz26

Most people are not car enthusiasts, a car is just a device or appliance to them to get from a to b. Depreciation is only a factor to them when buying/selling and a factor they accept as part of owning/using a car.

Idbatterim

bazz26 wrote: »

Most people are not car enthusiasts, a car is just a device or appliance to them to get from a to b. Depreciation is only a factor to them when buying/selling and a factor they accept as part of owning/using a car.

going on some of the BMW threads. The depreciation even on the entry level models is jaw dropping. Not surprising given how much BMW Ireland gouge us And when you go to trade or sell, you are up against cheaper new BMW in U.K. , weak sterling and cheap Vrt

lkkev80

Hi All, thanks for the replies and the older luxury car is an interesting debate. Honestly I would be worried about the maintenance costs of a car like that...as somebody mentioned the cost of tyres etc along with would a car like that be reliable? Perhaps so...I know nothing about Mercedes S Class.

Would I be better off to go for something in the middle? As an example I picked this one in a 2 mins search of carzone:
https://m.carzone.ie/used-cars/mercedes-benz/c-class/292060580448719

TheWarmNights

My OH did 100 km e/w for 2 years every day. He did it in a 1.4L diesel hatchback.

It was only 5 km of not motorway roads.

So it’s definitely doable. Just remember to always pull over if you get any of the fatigue symptoms. It WILL inevitably happen on a long monotonous journey.

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

I just personally don't care about the age of the car. This is what I don't get. How can people be a reg snob and not a bad snob?

If you are both, fair enough. But the reg snobbery while driving a relative **** car compared to a luxury car. Perplexes me ...

Older cars are hassle, even if nothing major goes wrong you will still have wear and tear items constantly going and regular trips to the garage, tax is massive, there is the danger of a major failure where the car is no use, travelling 100km return per day you want something that's not going to let you down. Also the likes of that merc won't get close to the economy of a modern diesel and to be honest despite it being a luxury the kit you will get in a modern vw will be better than in that merc. Things like active cruise control, phone and music integration etc etc.

ted1

If you are doing 1000km a week you should look at getting a 2nd hand Tesla S, it’s over budget but at the end of the year you’ll have saved a fortune on fuel and servicing etc l. There’s a good thread in the electric car forum

Toyotafanboi

To give some somewhat relevant advice.

My missus does 200km per day. A '16 Golf 1.6 diesel, bought new.

The rational for getting it was what the few sensible posts in this thread echo'd.

Reliability is key, and despite what people say your best stab at reliability is most likely a new or nearly new car. Doing that kind of distance the absolute last inconvenience you need is being broken down an hour or two from home.

This kind of feeds into the next logical key area which is a manufacturers warranty if something does go wrong, your hand won't be going near your pocket and if it renders the car undrivable you will be covered for roadside assistance and courtesy cars.

On top of those, servicing is predictable and cheap. At that kind of mileage you can run the Golf on 30k intervals which means that you only need a service once every 8 months and as it's a new car you can predict from a menu how much the car is going to need and when with no hidden surprises.

It's thrifty on fuel and tax, it does it for between €55 and €60 per week diesel which is quite good and i think the tax is around €300 a year which is good.

As said it also has radar cruise control, dual zone climate, android auto, auto lights/ wipers, keyless go, autohold etc so spec isn't poor by any means.

You'd want to be off your banana to do that kind of commute in a 10 year old S-Class. Tax is mental, servicing would be mental, fuel consumption would be average at best and reliability would be patchy. Sure it's a big car with a bit of power but that's way down the average commuters priority list. Most are happier paying for depreciation to give them access to cheap servicing, cheap tax, low fuel consumption and a predictable ownership experience backed by the product manufacturer.

Sure in 4 years time the Golf will be worth not a whole lot but it will have done what we payed for it to do by then, which is get the missus to work without making a fuss.

737max

even the NCT is a half day or more of hassle on top of the actual fee for the NCT.
If you have a near new car then you are avoiding that waste of time too.
I put a value on my time. If I want to waste it I'd prefer to do it from the comfort of my sofa tapping away on forums on the internet.

Toyotafanboi

737max wrote: »

I put a value on my time. If I want to waste it I'd prefer to do it from the comfort of my sofa tapping away on forums on the internet.

Never a truer word said!

acronym Chilli

737max wrote: »

even the NCT is a half day or more of hassle on top of the actual fee for the NCT.
If you have a near new car then you are avoiding that waste of time too.
I put a value on my time. If I want to waste it I'd prefer to do it from the comfort of my sofa tapping away on forums on the internet.

RE NCT: You're doing it wrong then.
In my experience it's about an hour, and I've picked a location that fitted with other appointments. The cost is tiny in the scheme of things over a year's motoring

737max

I'm not doing it at all. It is quite a while since I needed to get a car NCT'd.
when cars are 3 here they need to go for a test but the car gets collected from the park station in the morning and delivered back before I leave in the evening. If I time it right this year I'll get the summer tyres back on at the same time.

acronym Chilli

737max wrote: »

I'm not doing it at all. It is quite a while since I needed to get a car NCT'd.
when cars are 3 here they need to go for a test but the car gets collected from the park station in the morning and delivered back before I leave in the evening. If I time it right this year I'll get the summer tyres back on at the same time.

Well then I should have said you're posting wrong.
I.e. the spoof-ology about NCT being half day hassle.

Toyotafanboi

Ah it is a half day affair if there isn't a centre in the town where you live/ work.

737max

acronym Chilli wrote: »

Well then I should have said you're posting wrong.
I.e. the spoof-ology about NCT being half day hassle.

it is a half day hassle and time is precious to someone travelling 200km a day.

acronym Chilli

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Ah it is a half day affair if there isn't a centre in the town where you live/ work.

If you're rural based, far from NCT centre, then maybe. But if you're driving 100s of km a week, then there has to be an occasion in the 3 months prior to expiry when you can plan it into schedule.

I'll time it this year and report back

lkkev80

Thanks again for all the replies folks....keep em comin.

So lots of suggestions and debate. To come back to my original idea of '16 Passat ... any comments on this specific motor:

- comfortable for long motorway driving?
- reliable?
- official fuel efficiency is 70.6mpg, have people seen this achieved driving at 125km/hour for long distances?

Toyotafanboi

The Passats are a decent bus and reliable for the most part whether it be 1.6 or 2.0.

You won't see close to 70mpg but 50 - 55 driving right is achievable.

Idbatterim

Lol at mention of the nct. Wear and tear? The op is getting a used car. Tyres wipers, break pads etc don't need replacing in 2-3 year old cars too ?

737max

actually no. the lease business depends on no major maintenance or expensive consumable replacement until car comes off lease.
The point about NCTs and servicing is that someone commuting 200km a day doesn't have the luxury of time to be maintaining their car so younger is better and less maintenance is better so cut out the NCTs and only service the car twice a year instead of three times a year.
Other thing to consider is fuel tank size. The fuel tanks are getting smaller.
The newer cars are dropping below 50l tanks. A car with a 59 litre tank will get through another day without a refill. last megane has a 59litre tank while new one is 49 litres if I remember correctly. Merc C class also dropped tank size.
There is no room for sentiment for a long distance commuter; they have to get something reliable, comfortable, cheap to run and low maintenance.

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

Lol at mention of the nct. Wear and tear? The op is getting a used car. Tyres wipers, break pads etc don't need replacing in 2-3 year old cars too ?

This is not the wear and tear, you are referring to service items.

Things like suspension parts failing, electrics, engine parts packing in, gear box issues etc etc the list goes on and on.

Also if you actually calculate it running that S class won't be too different at all from running a nearly new car after the cost of tax and far higher fuel consumption is added to the far higher servicing and fixing issues that arise also. You also have a far higher risk of a major failure and being left stuck far from home.

At the end of the day it's an old car too and it will show it's age in body work and interior wear etc.

Mooooo

lkkev80 wrote: »

Thanks again for all the replies folks....keep em comin.

So lots of suggestions and debate. To come back to my original idea of '16 Passat ... any comments on this specific motor:

- comfortable for long motorway driving?
- reliable?
- official fuel efficiency is 70.6mpg, have people seen this achieved driving at 125km/hour for long distances?

Dunno the specifics brother had a 13 passat 1.6 sold it earlier this year as left the country bit had 192k km on it she he sold it and it never missed a beat and his driving wasn't all motorway either.

Bigus

Here's a detailed 3 year post from an irish lad doing a huge commute here in Ireland and he switched from a performance car to the most economical car he could find at the time , being a Polo 1.4 tdi eco model diesel, he's touching 70 mpg over 3 years .
He has spreadsheets done on all the costs too.

http://www.backroads.ie/forums/showthread.php?11713-The-Mint-My-frugal-daily-drive-experiment

68 lost souls

I've been doing 160km a day for the last few months. 05 2l 140bhp golf averaging 50+MPG. Cruise control is a blessing, dont need automatic as you are more or less in 6th the whole time and wont have to pay the expensive autobox servicing. Adaptive CC on newer VWs would be nice to have as would Climate Control.

Year to date including January - August with a 100km a day drive is €2106 on diesel, €1715 on service including timing belt and 2 tyres and average for the whole year MPG is 49.4. Averaging around €0.112 per mile for fuel.

80% driving either M1 or M/N2 with cruise control set at the speed limit as per GPS rather than indicated.

I would imagine you should get better than that from a MK7

acronym Chilli

It might seem trivial, but I'd also suggest that when really looking at the economics of driving to switch to metric and l/100km rather than MPG. More important than the fact it's metric is that it makes it easier to compare the cars for actual use.

A driver has a journey to accomplish, e.g. a 200km commute; and will use fuel and other consumables to achieve it. The l/100km makes that comparison very clear. People rarely need to make a calculation facilitated by MPG, like: "I've 1 gallon of fuel, how far can I get?".

Also, because MPG is the inverse/reciprocal of l/100km, it means that as MPG gets very big the actual change in l/100km (and operating cost) is surprisingly small.

• A 50MPG car means 5.65l/100km. So if that was achieved for 200km you'd use 11.3l of fuel
• 100 MPG car would mean 2.825 l/100km
• 70MPG car would mean 4.04 l/100km, or 8.08l for the round trip.
• 60 MPG is 4.71 l/100km
• 30MPG is 9.42 l/100km
• 20 MPG is 14.12 l/100km
• 10 MPG is 28.24 l/100km

So if you compare a 50MPG car and a 60MPG car, to cover a given distance the 50MPG car will use about 1l of fuel extra. Meanwhile at the low end, comparing a 20MPG car to a 30MPG car, the 20MPG car will use 4.7l more fuel per 100km. It's easy to turn litres of fuel into €€.

Comparing 50 and 70 MPG, the difference is 3.22l/100km, and at €1.26/l for diesel that's €4.05 a day, or about €20 a week, or €1000 a year. It's real money, but it's not so large that it completely dominates the decision process (and most people do fewer km per annum anyway).

Anecdotes: I ended up driving a 200km round trip commute (about 4 days a week) in a 2.0l turbo petrol Saab. Over 57,000 km I averaged 8.79 l/100km. That was fairly poor, but because the car was running well and depreciation-free I never had an economic reason to replace it (nor, however, did I have reason to put money into it). Over those 57,000 km I had one "wear and tear"/age-related failure (fuel pump) that stranded the vehicle, as well as at least one puncture (even though tyres were new).

Now in a diesel, and after 7,600 km fuel cost per km is 7.31c. For Saab that averaged at 11.13c (variations in oil price mean that's not strictly like for like).

Finally: if you're doing that sort of mileage, you need breakdown cover, ideally with nationwide recovery (i.e. to your own garage). If you're relying on warranty, ensure you've checked how the recovery options work.

68 lost souls

I've been doing 160km a day for the last few months. 05 2l 140bhp golf averaging 5.4L/100km . Cruise control is a blessing, dont need automatic as you are more or less in 6th the whole time and wont have to pay the expensive autobox servicing. Adaptive CC on newer VWs would be nice to have as would Climate Control.

Year to date including January - August with a 100km a day drive is €2106 on diesel, €1715 on service including timing belt and 2 tyres and average for the whole year 5.7 L/100KM. Averaging around €0.069 per KM for fuel. Average Proce/Liter €1.21

80% driving either M1 or M/N2 with cruise control set at the speed limit as per GPS rather than indicated.

I would imagine you should get better than that from a MK7

Translated to L/100km as per above post

166man

OP is currently driving a diesel Focus. Realistically he won't be changing to a 10 year old Mercedes S Class - which, while is a valid suggestion, isn't realistic in this scenario.

I'll give my 2c on this argument. I bought a 2006 159 2.4JTDm back in September. I paid very small money for the car such that a loan was not required. Now Alfa's as we all know have patchy reliability as pub talk goes, mine has been absolutely spot on in the 10k km I have put on it since.

If you're going down the route of the older cars, I think it'd doable, but it totally depends on buying the right car that was looked after.

I know two other lads on this forum putting plenty of miles on 10+ year old Alfa diesels with them never being left at the side of the road.