homeless - should local authorities supply tents & sleeping bags?

Andy From Sligo

hello - excuse the niave post and I am most probably come up with an idea thats come up before or its just not feasible.

but , you know there are a lot of people sleeping in shop doorways and some ofd them might not want accomodation (though why they wouldnt especially in freezing cold weather like this I will never know) But why dont the local authorities get some waterproof tents set up in a town centre location with waterproof sleeping bags rather than see homedless end up sleeping in doorways?

what have I missed here? - be more shelter from the winds and rain and snow and warmer for them.

mikeysmith

And free beer

Charlie19

Supply tent and be held accountable.

No thanks.

Andy From Sligo

Charlie19 wrote: »

Supply tent and be held accountable.

No thanks.

accountable to what?

conorhal

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

hello - excuse the niave post and I am most probably come up with an idea thats come up before or its just not feasible.

but , you know there are a lot of people sleeping in shop doorways and some ofd them might not want accomodation (though why they wouldnt especially in freezing cold weather like this I will never know) But why dont the local authorities get some waterproof tents set up in a town centre location with waterproof sleeping bags rather than see homedless end up sleeping in doorways?

what have I missed here? - be more shelter from the winds and rain and snow and warmer for them.

Naaaaa.... that would be a practical but implicit recognition of failure, what the homeless really need is another well paid series of quangos....

Charlie19

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

accountable to what?

Zip injuries to the micky.

nilescraneo

Homeless service in Dublin do give out sleeping bags when there's no more beds available for the night from the freephone. Most rough sleepers in urban areas don't like tents as you are vulnerable due to not being able to see what's going on around you and not being able to get out of them quickly.

I see plenty of tents in the Phoenix Park on my commute to work in the mornings though, sadly enough.

corner of hells

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

hello - excuse the niave post and I am most probably come up with an idea thats come up before or its just not feasible.

but , you know there are a lot of people sleeping in shop doorways and some ofd them might not want accomodation (though why they wouldnt especially in freezing cold weather like this I will never know) But why dont the local authorities get some waterproof tents set up in a town centre location with waterproof sleeping bags rather than see homedless end up sleeping in doorways?

what have I missed here? - be more shelter from the winds and rain and snow and warmer for them.

They do provide sleeping bags , not great quality.
However ideally moving away from sleeping bags would probably be the best option.

James Bond Junior

Because nobody wants tents and homeless people in their area. NIMBY.

Cantona's Collars

conorhal wrote: »

Naaaaa.... that would be a practical but implicit recognition of failure, what the homeless really need is another well paid series of quangos....

We need a Tent feasibility study with a highly paid consultant carrying it out which will take a year. We also need a planning team to work out the best place to erect tents. An interdepartmental team is also needed to correlate the findings of the other teams and consultants. This will be then all scrapped in 2019 after being found to be unfeasible after the entire budget of €40 million was wasted on fees.

Andy From Sligo

corner of hells wrote: »

They do provide sleeping bags , not great quality.
However ideally moving away from sleeping bags would probably be the best option.

of course, thats waht we all want to move to ultimately - surely its got to happen one day where there will be no homeless whatsoever.

They do need shelter from the elements. Sleeping bags and shop doorways dont offer protection from the elements/weather

RustyNut

conorhal wrote: »

Naaaaa.... that would be a practical but implicit recognition of failure,

Nail on the head there. The current housing crises is the result of the failed policy of privatisation of social housing.

Profit for the capitalists,sleeping bags and death in doorways for poor people.

Andy From Sligo

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

We need a Tent feasibility study with a highly paid consultant carrying it out which will take a year. We also need a planning team to work out the best place to erect tents. An interdepartmental team is also needed to correlate the findings of the other teams and consultants. This will be then all scrapped in 2019 after being found to be unfeasible after the entire budget of €40 million was wasted on fees.

yep that sounds about right - everything needs to have a feasibility study carried out first and loads of money wasted!:mad:

Riesen_Meal

Oddly enough, my mate from Sligo organises lots of this stuff for the homeless, not this Andy from Sligo chap... :pac:

Cantona's Collars

Seriously though,the councils own lots of land,how much would it cost to set up a mobile home park where at least the homeless would have their own space to live in? They can build fully serviced halting sites for travellers in no length,why not similarly designed sites complete with caravans and mobile homes to house homeless individuals and families.
It would be a temporary solution and eventually the land would be built on to provide housing.

Andy From Sligo

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Because nobody wants tents and homeless people in their area. NIMBY.

a row of tents and a big sign saying "tents supplied by???? county council" (or town centre shop/ business establishment) will make them look good and give them kudos

People will at least think that the homeless is not being ignored altogether

Andy From Sligo

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Seriously though,the councils own lots of land,how much would it cost to set up a mobile home park where at least the homeless would have their own space to live in? They can build fully serviced halting sites for travellers in no length,why not similarly designed sites complete with caravans and mobile homes to house homeless individuals and families.
It would be a temporary solution and eventually the land would be built on to provide housing.

yeah i like the sound of that.

splinter65

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

hello - excuse the niave post and I am most probably come up with an idea thats come up before or its just not feasible.

but , you know there are a lot of people sleeping in shop doorways and some ofd them might not want accomodation (though why they wouldnt especially in freezing cold weather like this I will never know) But why dont the local authorities get some waterproof tents set up in a town centre location with waterproof sleeping bags rather than see homedless end up sleeping in doorways?

what have I missed here? - be more shelter from the winds and rain and snow and warmer for them.

The FMV Trust and Simon have provided warm beds and warm food for all possible rough sleepers
They’ve appealed to the public to report any rough sleepers to then.
I don’t know what Benefit a tent city in Stephens green would be.

Solving the homelessness problem the Richard the 3rd way. Now is the winter of our discounted tents.

Wheeliebin30

RustyNut wrote: »

Nail on the head there. The current housing crises is the result of the failed policy of privatisation of social housing.

Profit for the capitalists,sleeping bags and death in doorways for poor people.

So there was no homeless when the government built social housing???


Liar!

Agent Coulson

That's not the type of gear a lot of them want.

Oranage2

It won't help, the homeless figures are hugely boasted by single mothers living in B&Bs and hotels, the very few rough sleepers is usually by choice caused by a mental illness or addiction. Giving rough sleepers tents and such would most likely be pawned off for drink or drug money.

suicide_circus

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

a row of tents and a big sign saying "tents supplied by???? county council" (or town centre shop/ business establishment) will make them look good and give them kudos

People will at least think that the homeless is not being ignored altogether

Homelessness gets more attention than all other social issue combined at this stage. The solution is not sleeping bags or more money for homelessness charities. The solutions are;
a) house building projects on a massive scale - the state needs to get back in the business of housing it's citizens irrespective of income.
b) ban tenant refusal of social housing provided within reason.
c) tax the sheit out of anyone hording land and tax the sheit out of vacant properties. County councils are the biggest culprit here.
d) introduce proper structures around long term renting
Homelessness charities can achieve non of the above (nor would they want to as they'd be out of a job) It's all up to government.

For Forks Sake

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Seriously though,the councils own lots of land,how much would it cost to set up a mobile home park where at least the homeless would have their own space to live in? They can build fully serviced halting sites for travellers in no length,why not similarly designed sites complete with caravans and mobile homes to house homeless individuals and families.
It would be a temporary solution and eventually the land would be built on to provide housing.

Let me make sure I've got this right; you propose creating a ghetto for those with alcohol/substance/mental health issues so severe that they refuse to engage with the plethora of services already available to them (to the extent that they would rather sleep in doorways/under bridges than in a hostel) ?

What could possibly go wrong there.

end of the road

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

So there was no homeless when the government built social housing???


Liar!

that's not what he said, but of course you know that.

elperello

Fr McVerry is on the Ray D'Arcy Show RTE 1 tonight.

end of the road

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Let me make sure I've got this right; you propose creating a ghetto for those with alcohol/substance/mental health issues so severe that they refuse to engage with the plethora of services already available to them (to the extent that they would rather sleep in doorways/under bridges than in a hostel) ?

What could possibly go wrong there.

it's not only just those with alcohol/substance/mental health issues who refuse to sleep in a hostel. many people who would be on the streets for other reasons refuse to use them because they are not safe and little is done to make them safe.

corner of hells

suicide_circus wrote: »

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

a row of tents and a big sign saying "tents supplied by???? county council" (or town centre shop/ business establishment) will make them look good and give them kudos

People will at least think that the homeless is not being ignored altogether

Homelessness gets more attention than all other social issue combined at this stage. The solution is not sleeping bags or more money for homelessness charities. The solutions are;
a) house building projects on a massive scale - the state needs to get back in the business of housing it's citizens irrespective of income.
b) ban tenant refusal of social housing provided within reason.
c) tax the sheit out of anyone hording land and tax the sheit out of vacant properties. County councils are the biggest culprit here.
d) introduce proper structures around long term renting
Homelessness charities can achieve non of the above (nor would they want to as they'd be out of a job) It's all up to government.

Social housing does need to be built but not on a wide scale .We need to be looking at why people are looking for social housing .There's always going to be people who social housing but we need to move away from the generational mindset some have who believe they should be housed by the state because their grandparents, parents were and so should they.

There's actually a probably with a limited number of individuals prepared to brazen it out and live in homeless hostels for up to right years for social housing in efect making themself homeless.

Absolutely on proper rent structure , it should be possible to lock in to five , ten and twenty year leases.

Homeless charities are housing people through housing associations and with some getting housed in private rented.

nilescraneo

Oranage2 wrote: »

It won't help, the homeless figures are hugely boasted by single mothers living in B&Bs and hotels, the very few rough sleepers is usually by choice caused by a mental illness or addiction. Giving rough sleepers tents and such would most likely be pawned off for drink or drug money.

I don't know what you mean by 'boasted' but anyone in temporary/insecure accommodation is still homeless, ie they have no stable accommodation, so your comment makes no sense.

Plenty of rough sleepers (especially younger/new homeless and those not using drugs/alcohol) won't use the hostels because they are dangerous and prefer the streets. Now, just think how bad some of those hostels must be to actively choose to sleep on a street in this weather. Then come back and make a glib FG like remark about homelessness not being a problem.

corner of hells

end of the road wrote: »

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Let me make sure I've got this right; you propose creating a ghetto for those with alcohol/substance/mental health issues so severe that they refuse to engage with the plethora of services already available to them (to the extent that they would rather sleep in doorways/under bridges than in a hostel) ?

What could possibly go wrong there.

it's not only just those with alcohol/substance/mental health issues who refuse to sleep in a hostel. many people who would be on the streets for other reasons refuse to use them because they are not safe and little is done to make them safe.

I'm social care worker in homeless services , hostels are not for the faint hearted but what you're saying about them not being safe and that there is little being done to make them safe is just not true.
There's quite a few different types of accommodation provided , it's worth investigating what's there before posting like that.

corner of hells

nilescraneo wrote: »

Oranage2 wrote: »

It won't help, the homeless figures are hugely boasted by single mothers living in B&Bs and hotels, the very few rough sleepers is usually by choice caused by a mental illness or addiction. Giving rough sleepers tents and such would most likely be pawned off for drink or drug money.

I don't know what you mean by 'boasted' but anyone in temporary/insecure accommodation is still homeless, ie they have no stable accommodation, so your comment makes no sense.

Plenty of rough sleepers (especially younger/new homeless and those not using drugs/alcohol) won't use the hostels because they are dangerous and prefer the streets. Now, just think how bad some of those hostels must be to actively choose to sleep on a street in this weather. Then come back and make a glib FG like remark about homelessness not being a problem.

Your second paragraph is just not true.

gctest50

corner of hells wrote: »

Your second paragraph is just not true.

I think i'd take Peter McVerrys word on it :

Fr Peter McVerry told RTE that a lot of homeless people are refusing to stay in emergency accommodation because of the danger element, including intimidation and drug-taking.

Speaking on Today with Keelin Shanley, Fr McVerry described the predicament of many homeless people:
"They sleep with their runners under their pillow because they're afraid they will be robbed.

"The tragedy is that some of the emergency hostels are so unsafe that people feel safer sleeping somewhere like Stephen's Green."

Andy From Sligo

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

hello - excuse the niave post and I am most probably come up with an idea thats come up before or its just not feasible.

but , you know there are a lot of people sleeping in shop doorways and some ofd them might not want accomodation (though why they wouldnt especially in freezing cold weather like this I will never know) But why dont the local authorities get some waterproof tents set up in a town centre location with waterproof sleeping bags rather than see homedless end up sleeping in doorways?

what have I missed here? - be more shelter from the winds and rain and snow and warmer for them.

If there are beds available to them, why the need for tents or sleeping bags?

gctest50

Good bit of money in it, bound to benefit someone to not fix it properly :

More than €142 million is to be spent providing homeless services in 2018


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/dublin-city-budget-of-917m-biggest-since-2009-1.3290714

gctest50

Nice if you've a hotel, the guests might not complain it needs a bit of paint :

Dublin hotelier received up to € 8 million to accommodate homeless

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-hotelier-received-up-to-8m-to-accommodate-homeless-1.3271914

splinter65

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Let me make sure I've got this right; you propose creating a ghetto for those with alcohol/substance/mental health issues so severe that they refuse to engage with the plethora of services already available to them (to the extent that they would rather sleep in doorways/under bridges than in a hostel) ?

What could possibly go wrong there.

My husband and I are sitting here discussing this.
It’s as if people have been brainwashed by the media and left wing nonsense.
Fully grown adults think that there are families with small children huddled in doorways after being evicted while the Taoiseach and Minister for housing enjoy another Christmas party .
It’s insane.
If kind, patient, mostly volunteers can not persuade men and women away from choosing a doorway tonight then why on earth would they get into your tent city?

splinter65

corner of hells wrote: »

Your second paragraph is just not true.

Just making stuff up to fit neatly in the agenda.

B.A._Baracus

Oranage2 wrote: »

It won't help, the homeless figures are hugely boasted by single mothers living in B&Bs and hotels, the very few rough sleepers is usually by choice caused by a mental illness or addiction. Giving rough sleepers tents and such would most likely be pawned off for drink or drug money.

Sad to say but you are right.
Solving homelessness is a hard issue I hear. On paper you think it would be as easy as building houses and getting people in courses or jobs.

Much harder than that.

splinter65

elperello wrote: »

Fr McVerry is on the Ray D'Arcy Show RTE 1 tonight.

Fr McVerry says young people still living at home because they can’t afford to move out are homeless.
That is all.

corner of hells

gctest50 wrote: »

corner of hells wrote: »

Your second paragraph is just not true.

I think i'd take Peter McVerrys word on it :

Fr Peter McVerry told RTE that a lot of homeless people are refusing to stay in emergency accommodation because of the danger element, including intimidation and drug-taking.

Speaking on Today with Keelin Shanley, Fr McVerry described the predicament of many homeless people:
"They sleep with their runners under their pillow because they're afraid they will be robbed.

"The tragedy is that some of the emergency hostels are so unsafe that people feel safer sleeping somewhere like Stephen's Green."

I'm not sure when he last did a night shift , but like I said they're not for the faint hearted but lockers are provided for valubles.

Again it's worth investigating the different types of hostels.

They vary from one night only , rolling beds , Short term accommodation, temporary emergency , private emergency and so on.

I've worked in quite a few a never felt threatened or been attacked.

Wheeliebin30

splinter65 wrote: »

My husband and I are sitting here discussing this.
It’s as if people have been brainwashed by the media and left wing nonsense.
Fully grown adults think that there are families with small children huddled in doorways after being evicted while the Taoiseach and Minister for housing enjoy another Christmas party .
It’s insane.
If kind, patient, mostly volunteers can not persuade men and women away from choosing a doorway tonight then why on earth would they get into your tent city?

Exactly, couldn't put it better myself.

Jonathan corrie sold 2 houses and refused accommodation the night he died.

How his death is the governments fault is beyond me.

corner of hells

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

splinter65 wrote: »

My husband and I are sitting here discussing this.
It’s as if people have been brainwashed by the media and left wing nonsense.
Fully grown adults think that there are families with small children huddled in doorways after being evicted while the Taoiseach and Minister for housing enjoy another Christmas party .
It’s insane.
If kind, patient, mostly volunteers can not persuade men and women away from choosing a doorway tonight then why on earth would they get into your tent city?

Exactly, couldn't put it better myself.

Jonathan corrie sold 2 houses and refused accommodation the night he died.

How his death is the governments fault is beyond me.

Jonathan Corrie died from an overdose having earlier refused support from an outreach who would attempted to place him in a one night only bed.

We need to get away from the " he had two houses " statement , he was an addict living rough when he died .
You're correct , nothing to do with the government.

splinter65

corner of hells wrote: »

I'm not sure when he last did a night shift , but like I said they're not for the faint hearted but lockers are provided for valubles.

Again it's worth investigating the different types of hostels.

They vary from one night only , rolling beds , Short term accommodation, temporary emergency , private emergency and so on.

I've worked in quite a few a never felt threatened or been attacked.

Your being called a liar here because your testimony isn’t on message.

gctest50

corner of hells wrote: »

I'm not sure when he last did a night shift , but like I said they're not for the faint hearted but lockers are provided for valubles.

Again it's worth investigating the different types of hostels.

They vary from one night only , rolling beds , Short term accommodation, temporary emergency , private emergency and so on.

I've worked in quite a few a never felt threatened or been attacked.

corner of hells wrote: »

........... but like I said they're not for the faint hearted

Well, the faint hearted and anyone else should feel safe there


They getting enough money between this and much much more :

More than €142 million is to be spent providing homeless services in 2018


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...2009-1.3290714

corner of hells wrote: »

I've worked in quite a few a never felt threatened or been attacked.

and........ you are....... say .... an 8 stone woman then ?

Agent Coulson

So is the €200k donated to the illegal occupation of Apollo House last Christmas still resting in someone's account?

Maybe that should be freed up and given to some real charities or buy tents.

splinter65

Agent Coulson wrote: »

So is the €200k donated to the illegal occupation of Apollo House last Christmas still resting in someone's account?

Maybe that should be freed up and given to some real charities or buy tents.

That priest that does the free food could probably do with the place being refurbished too.

Agent Coulson

splinter65 wrote: »

That priest that does the free food could probably do with the place being refurbished too.

That's a great idea actually.

freshpopcorn

I think another issue with tents/sleeping bags is if the council did give them out they'd have to go around in the morning and tidy up!

splinter65

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I think another issue with tents/sleeping bags is if the council did give them out they'd have to go around in the morning and tidy up!

No I think the many many well wishers and concerned citizens who think that something like “a tent city in every town center” is what’s needed will be happy to keep the encampments tidy and safe and clean on a kind of a rota basis. No?
There shouldn’t be much cleaning up though. It’s not as if any of the rough sleepers have substance abuse issues or anger management issues, is it?

Always number 1

There needs to be a clearer distinction made between rough sleepers and people/families in hotel/b&b/hub accommodation.

Some rough sleepers are well aware of the supports available to them and for any number of reasons decide not to avail of them. Their complex individual needs need to be addressed before setting them up with other supports such as training, finding employment then ultimately securing somewhere permanent to live.

The issue of people/families in hotel/b&b/hub accommodation is much more complex. For every person/family who has been evicted from their home or priced out of the rental market there are any number of people/families who expect everything to be handed to them for little or nothing.
Any person/family who has genuinely made some kind of effort to keep up with mortgage repayments should not be evicted. Rents should be capped and based on the house itself (2 bed or 3 bed etc) and not on location.

As for those on the gravy train, if you have kids and they are not in school and you're not working and you want a free house then be prepared to move away from mammy and daddy and accept a place down the country if its offered to you and start contributing to society. I'd love to live closer to my family but I couldn't afford to so I bought a house elsewhere. I'd love to have more than 1 child but at the moment I can't really afford it.

After the Toy Show last week I saw people slating Tubridy and RTE for exploiting a homeless child but what about the kids who's mother or father goes to the papers and has their picture taken in a hotel or smaller house to see if they can jump a few places on the housing lists. Surely that's more exploitative?

I am (probably gonna get slated for this) sick of hearing homeless this and social housing that I am by no means a fan of the current government but if people don't want to engage with the services that are there or don't want to at least meet the supports halfway then it's a waste of everyone's time

corner of hells

gctest50 wrote: »

corner of hells wrote: »

I'm not sure when he last did a night shift , but like I said they're not for the faint hearted but lockers are provided for valubles.

Again it's worth investigating the different types of hostels.

They vary from one night only , rolling beds , Short term accommodation, temporary emergency , private emergency and so on.

I've worked in quite a few a never felt threatened or been attacked.

corner of hells wrote: »

........... but like I said they're not for the faint hearted

Well, the faint hearted and anyone else should feel safe there


They getting enough money between this and much much more :

More than €142 million is to be spent providing homeless services in 2018


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...2009-1.3290714

corner of hells wrote: »

I've worked in quite a few a never felt threatened or been attacked.

and........ you are....... say .... an 8 stone woman then ?

Is there a point to what you're posting at all ?