Attaching a wooden shed, to a concrete house.. how do you do it?

Howdy folks.

I know things exist like planning permission, regulations, etc. but I don't really want to discuss those, as I want to see if an idea i have will work first, in theory, before I get bogged down in all the 'real life' issues of my fantasy world.


I've got a wooden shed in the back garden. It's 16 x 11 (foot). It's a grand size, and it's plastered and all inside. Looks the bees knees and could easily be a livable space.

Anyway, what I'm wondering is, if I have a brick wall at the back of my house, a little wider than the shed (so it would protrude both sides, albeit likely only by a couple of inches each side), theoretically i can just push them tight together, and cut a hole in them and wallah, a new room on the house.


But how would this work in real life? Would it be a big job, or is it relatively easy?

A neighbour has a house that backs onto ours (so i can see their back garden) and their house has a massive wooden shed in it, with 2 different height roofs, and it is connected to their house. How, I don't know (and I don't really know them well enough that I can call in for a nosey).

So I know it is possible to do it, but I just wonder is it easy and cheap and done in a day, or is it weeks of tweaking things and adjusting things and work out the same price as just building an extension of the same size?


Just trying to figure out if this is a feasible project for next summer or such.

Cheers folks.

Lumen

Just to be clear, your idea is:

- Cut a shed-shaped hole in the back wall of your house (with a consaw?) down to near ground level
- Move an internally plastered wooden shed (with a forklift?) near to the hole
- Remove the gable end of the shed
- Push the open enx of the shed into the hole
- Tidy up the join

?

Calahonda52

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf0ZyoUn7Vk

Gumbo

If you cut a hole in the main dwelling to make this a direct opening into the shed then you would breach building regulations as the shed I assume does not meet building regulations.

If you butt the shed up against the noise but leave the main house as it is then it wouldn’t need to complain with the regulation. Similar to porches.

So no, I don’t think your idea will work.

delfagio

Madness.....A shed is just that.....a shed. A house is completely different. It's crazy to try consider cutting a hole out of the wall of your house and butt a shed up against it.

It will not work, your house will become cold and cost lots of money to heat, you more than likely will experience damp issues, and most importantly I cannot see house insurance covering this.

Also it does not comply with any building regs

Can anyone tell me how my idea is any different to this?


https://www.loghouse.ie/portfolio-items/extension-log-cabin/

...__...

hang on lets just play devils advocate here

if he had the shed say 3 feet away from the house cut a door ope in the main house and build a "shelter" between the two.
ok for selling etc it wouldn't have a hope but whats to say you cant build a fancy deck with a rain shelter that just happens to be sealed to the entrance to your shed?

gctest50

Because once make a closed tunnel into a shed / free-standing room it becomes part of the building

Building regulations apply then ('cos if you give some people a millimeter, they'll take a kilometer)


The important things really are :

Does the timber it's made of have any weird preseratives ( formaldehyde etc ) ?

Can you get out of it in a fire ?

Will it burn easily ?

Lumen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can anyone tell me how my idea is any different to this?

https://www.loghouse.ie/portfolio-items/extension-log-cabin/

Maybe it isn't. But do you think that because someone is selling something that it must be safe and legal to use?

I would nor trust anything on that website.

For instance:

"All bigger permanent dwellings needs planning permission. Our log houses are built on timer frame and block pad foundation and do not classify as permanent structure however if you decide to go for bigger log cabin we would advise you to check with your local council regarding the planning permission."

The "permanent structure" stuff is very misleading. There is no exemption from planning on the basis of the crapness of the building fabric.

Also I could find no mention of building regs anywhere on that site.

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

Can anyone tell me how my idea is any different to this?


https://www.loghouse.ie/portfolio-items/extension-log-cabin/

First thing I’d do is call them and ask DoE it meet Building Regulations and do they offer a certificate of compliance during and on completion.

kceire

kceire wrote: »

First thing I’d do is call them and ask DoE it meet Building Regulations and do they offer a certificate of compliance during and on completion.

Lumen wrote: »

Maybe it isn't. But do you think that because someone is selling something that it must be safe and legal to use?

I would nor trust anything on that website.

For instance:

"All bigger permanent dwellings needs planning permission. Our log houses are built on timer frame and block pad foundation and do not classify as permanent structure however if you decide to go for bigger log cabin we would advise you to check with your local council regarding the planning permission."

The "permanent structure" stuff is very misleading. There is no exemption from planning on the basis of the crapness of the building fabric.

Also I could find no mention of building regs anywhere on that site.

I suppose you could argue that it's not legal, but I can't see how it's not safe? Unless someone throws a petrol bomb at it, you're probably alright?


As someone who doesn't work, or have hobbies/interests in any area where I'd be around building regulations or the likes, I presumed that they were designed to stop people doing silly things like building a house on sand or building a big over the top mansion in a row of small cottages, etc.

I'd have presumed that anything that seemed sensible would be okay to fire away at? I can't see why/how this would be a big issue?

As I say I have an neighbour who has a wooden extension. It's probably bigger than his house in terms of ground space (but the house is 2 storey, extension is only 1 storey). I'd presume they didn't get permission for it, but it seems completely safe and it's been there about a decade I'd say, so it's obviously not falling apart? So I'm not sure why this would be a big issue?



EDIT: Also, can I ask, from second-hand info, would i be right in saying you can build what you like (or i could stick a shed on a house) and if it lasts 7 years then I'm home free? (in terms of they can't ask you to knock/remove it). Although I'd imagine someone would need to complain first?

(just as an aside, although it's probably a downfall; I'd generally be happy enough to approach the local council about things like this before doing it, as id hate the thought of doing it and then being told i've to take it down. The thought of spending money on doing it, and then more money undoing it, would kill me, haha).

elperello

Photo would help to better understand the project.
What would you use the shed for?

martinn123

kceire wrote: »

First thing I’d do is call them and ask DoE it meet Building Regulations and do they offer a certificate of compliance during and on completion.

Love the video. They show every view except where the Shed joins the house, and all internal shots are away from the house.

Metric Tensor

Planning regulations are there to stop you building something incongruous or not in keeping with the area - a house extension of the general shape and layout you have described does not generally cause too many planning issues provided there isn't some other factor such as space, overlooking, etc affecting the application.


The building regulations are there to make sure what you construct is safe and of suitable quality - which, as you describe it, it will not be! Safety comes in many guises:


Fire safety:

Will it stop the spread of flames of there's a fire from some source - electrics, candles, cigarettes, samsungs, etc.?

If there is a fire can you get out of it safely?


Access and egress:

Could a person with mobility issues enter and exit safely (this could be temporary too - pregnant, injured, old age)


Structural safety:

Will it stand up under heavy weight of snowfall or stay down in hurricane winds? Will it sink if you put a massive fridge freezer in it?

What about the hole you are going to whack out of the wall of your house - will it weaken the structure?


Moisture and ventilation:

Will it leak, will mould grow? Will you develop respiratory problems due to excessive dampness?


Insulation and heating:
Will be you be able to keep it warm? Will it be the equivalent of putting a massive open hole in your house?

Will you burn so much fossil fuel keeping it warm that you are hurting the country's commitment to reduce emissions?


The building regulations are there to provide a reasonable and consistent standard of built environment. This is to stop exactly the type of shanty town construction you are describing.

Would you build your own car and disregard seatbelts and brakes?

Metric Tensor

P.S. I'm not directly having a go at you here. All those questions should be asked of the people in your video and they won't be able to answer them either.

Those of us who see this sort of thing day in and day out get jaded by average people being hoodwinked by talk of "temporary" structures not needing to comply with building regulations. It's like a garage telling you you'll only be using your car every now and then so it doesn't need seatbelts.

Metric Tensor

Back again responding to myself!

I absolutely hate myself for saying what I'm about to say ....

I'm fairly sure there's a rule that says conservatories below a certain size do not have to comply with the building regulations.

In my opinion it's disgraceful but I think it's there all the same.

I feel dirty!

Metric Tensor

Metric Tensor wrote: »

P.S. I'm not directly having a go at you here.

Not at all, that was a great post and very informative.




To give an example, i have no up to date photos, but you can see the new back wall of the house in this picture, and the shed beside it. I effectively want to just wedge them together, and stick a door in.


https://s33.postimg.org/ldzz3nvdb/shedextend01.jpg


This is an older picture but shows the shed itself. I realise the height difference would need to be considered, and a new foundation etc. etc.


https://s33.postimg.org/52zv7cyb3/shedxtend02.jpg



As said already though, this is something that I'd have no real issue looking for permission to build, I'm not afraid to approach the Council or such, and it's also a job that if i were to do it, I'd wait a couple of years (to get the funds to do it properly, as im maxed out on house work costs at the moment).


But I just want to see is this a realistic thing. I think the house/garden as a whole would benefit from the shed being attached, rather than separate.

Shed is 16x11, but I realise i'd lose interior space by adding more insulation etc. to it.

Gumbo

Ok so if you put a door into the extension and then join the shed but you leave the door in place it may not require building regulation compliance.

The door would need to be an external door in compliance with Part L though.
You also need to check the total area for planning compliance which is separate.

Also, to put a new door in your extension, you need to place a lintel or steel beam over it, and it looks tight when you see the existing steel over the existing opening.

Also, if my googling is giving me accurate info and my off-the-top-of-my-head measurements are right, assuming i add the shed to the house right now this moment, i still havent added 40sq/meters to the house, and i still have over 25sq/meters of garden space, so i'd be okay on the planning front, it's just building regs id be having to worry about?

kceire

kceire wrote: »

Ok so if you put a door into the extension and then join the shed but you leave the door in place it may not require building regulation compliance.

The door would need to be an external door in compliance with Part L though.
You also need to check the total area for planning compliance which is separate.

Also, to put a new door in your extension, you need to place a lintel or steel beam over it, and it looks tight when you see the existing steel over the existing opening.

So is the first part of your post saying i go through 2 doors to the shed? (one on the brick wall, a tunnel of sorts, and then a door on the shed itself?)

Or are you saying i could get away with putting any external door onto the brick wall, and still wedge the shed against it (so still only one door opening).

I don't think I'd have any issue with regards to what type of door it is. I'm sure i could dress an external door to look nice and blend in.

gctest50

Be easier at this stage to remove the steel, knock the back wall and build on a shed-sized extension to your extension

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

So is the first part of your post saying i go through 2 doors to the shed? (one on the brick wall, a tunnel of sorts, and then a door on the shed itself?)

Or are you saying i could get away with putting any external door onto the brick wall, and still wedge the shed against it (so still only one door opening).

I don't think I'd have any issue with regards to what type of door it is. I'm sure i could dress an external door to look nice and blend in.

External door into the brick wall and then wedge the shed up to the wall. You are not breaking the thermal envelope of the building so in theory the she need not comply with the building regs.

Like adding a porch. Once you don’t remove the original door, then the porch need not be insulated as such.

gctest50 wrote: »

Be easier at this stage to remove the steel, knock the back wall and build on a shed-sized extension to your extension

Think the photo is old so the extension is actually built and lived in now.

gctest50

gctest50 wrote: »

Be easier at this stage to remove the steel, knock the back wall and build on a shed-sized extension to your extension

I'd need the cash to do so, unfortunately. Extension as is will leave me broke. This will be a 'down the line' project.

EDIT: as above, KCEire is right, the extension is gone by that stage at the moment. That pic is a bit old. Although its not finished. it's just being plastered at the moment.

Lumen

Did you get planning permission for the extension or was it built as exempted development?

Metric Tensor

I'd need to double check this but I think if you put the shed that close to an external house door you might need a fire rated door because the house no longer has sufficient separation from potential fires in the shed.

What I'd recommend is keeping the shed a safe distance away and having an open but covered walkway between the two.

No matter what you do with it it's still a timber shed - not a room. You will end up spending quite a bit of money on this scheme and get a non-compliant, damp, cold, messy adjunct onto your extension. Put that money in a bank account and add to it until you can build a room when you need it. You'd be surprised how much it will cost to do an even half decent (but still wrong) version of what you are proposing.

looksee

You could create insurance issues as well as planning problems. Insurance companies will not usually insure a shed type building with a timber roof.

That log cabin is totally unconvincing - a timber-finished hole in the house wall (you do get a glimpse of the house access) with no doors? Freezing. And a non-draining smooth timber deck to stand it on? Right. If that set of pics is anything other than a bit of photoshop, then I doubt it was left there after the photo-shoot was finished.

Jamesgrace

Deleted User wrote:

So I know it is possible to do it, but I just wonder is it easy and cheap and done in a day, or is it weeks of tweaking things and adjusting things and work out the same price as just building an extension of the same size?

It's not a quick, cheap and easy job to attach one structure to another -your new door opening will affect the load-bearing properties of the original wall and will need proper support from lintels. Moisture will need to be kept out of your new space above the roofline, at the join of the new walls to the old and from below ground level. If your cabin settles due to inadequate foundations it may separate from your house, undoing any previous work.
It will also effect your current heating which may now be underpowered, and the electrics will need to be brought back to your fuseboard.
When it comes to construction, the quick, cheap and easy way more often than not ends up being the opposite.