Mgt Co. outlawing wooden floors

seandeas

Hi,

I have an apartment nearly 20 years old and the Managing Agent has just called an EGM for Monday 18th December (which suits like, no one!) to adopt new house rules. One of the NEW rules states :

"All floors, except for the bathroom and kitchen, must be adequately covered with carpets so as to deaden the sound. The kitchen and bathroom must be covered in a suitable material such a cork vinyl to avoid the transmission of sound”

While another says :

“All apartment owners wishing to carry out any works to their apartment, to include painting and decorating much complete a Method Statement (available from the Management Agent) 21 days before commencement of the work”

With regard to the first item – surely they can’t force people to rip out their tiled bathrooms and hard floors ? We bought this place a few years ago and spent a lot of money getting wooden floors in. Does anyone know the legal position?

And the second rule is extremely restrictive - among other things, the method statement is asking for a health and safety statement and an “original of the contractor’s insurance policy which will be copied and handed back to the contractor”. I mean what if I just get a handyman from down the road to give the place a coat of paint – he’s not going to have all that and I might only decide a week before to do such work. It seems wrong that they can bring in these rules on a whim. My concern is that the resolution will pass – I received notice in the post yesterday, the meeting is being held in the week before Christmas at a time and place which won’t suit a lot of people. These rules really seem to be going over the top.

Has anyone any thoughts on this ?

Cuddlesworth

Carpets make sense but insisting on no tiling in bathrooms maybe not so much. I doubt they will be able to apply it retrospectively though, it would be unmanageable. I would take a guess and say your management company is run by somebody who has gotten pissed off at their neighbours new badly fitted wooden floors. Who lives below you?

shockwave

Im fairly sure you can call an EGM and sack the agent or at least make an official complaint to the managment company,

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This post has been deleted.

Graham

If you own the apartment the Management Company is your Management Company. Appointed by you and your fellow owners.

If you don't like something the management company is proposing, you (collectively) can veto it.

FYI, it's not unusual to have a no wooden floors rule in the head lease.

Larbre34

Even if my some miracle it is adopted, it cant be retrospective and will only apply to new fittings.

Id be asking them why they were inspired to suggest this? The resident directors are entitled to have sight of everything that brought this about, make them and the agent fully accountable.

If the homes were built to code in the first place, wooden floors wouldnt be a problem.

Cuddlesworth

Larbre34 wrote: »

If the homes were built to code in the first place, wooden floors wouldnt be a problem.

Badly fitted wooden floors in apartment can make somebody walking in hard shoes(boots/high heels) sound like gunshots going off in the apartment below. Its nothing to do with building to code.

cruizer101

Would there not be any sort of quorum so that that can't make changes unless a minimum number of people vote

pinkypinky

I'd question whether a week's notice is a properly constituted EGM as well. Usually 3 weeks notice is required for these things. Check the Memos and Articles of your company.

Colonel Claptrap

I think it's time you took up tap dancing OP. That's ridiculous.

Every apartment I have lived in had wooden floors and tiles.

Victor

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Badly fitted wooden floors in apartment can make somebody walking in hard shoes(boots/high heels) sound like gunshots going off in the apartment below. Its nothing to do with building to code.

There is a requirement for floors to comply with sound transmission rules in the Building Regulations. For timber floors, it typically means putting a foam layer under the timber.

Ceramic tile or vinyl floors can be laid on plywood over insulation.

koheim

Better idea is to make a rule that people take off their shoes when inside the apartment, problem solved...

Lumen

You can get some very nice vinyl floors, but the idea of forcing people to rip out existing flooring is insane.

Wabbit Ears

Check if the EGM is valid, both for the amount of notice given plus there is usually a requirement that there is a certain number of people officially calling for an EGM. One person usually cant just call an EGM nor can just the management committee call one at a whim.

If neither of these are written into the rules, fomally propose that the be written in by letter and voted on at the EGM to prevent this type of thing happening again.

Check the Quorum requirements for a vote to be passed and/or The EGM to be valid. Again, if there are no Quorum requirements make a proposal that one be implemented and have it voted on at the EGM. Having no quorum requirements means a very small group of people can make decisions that affect all the owners.

You have as much voting rights as anyone else. if you feel strongly about it speak to all your neighbours.

I suspect, however, that this will pass as noisy floors are a big issue for lots of people and most will see this as a good thing to implement.

Electric Sheep

koheim wrote: »

Better idea is to make a rule that people take off their shoes when inside the apartment, problem solved...

People who have other people living below them should be doing that as a matter of common courtesy anyway.

dr.fuzzenstein

It's your apartment and the management company can FRO.
Do as you wish with your apartment and if these jumped up clowns tell you to rip up a floor, let them have a 2 word reply and let the second word be ...off.
What are they gonna do? Call the Gardai and have them rip up your floor? The have zilch legal power and your only mistake is taking them seriously.

Cel982

It’s the second requirement that’s the most ridiculous, IMO. So if you decide one weekend you’d like to paint your living room, you can’t just pop down to Woodie’s for a tin of paint and start off, you’ll need a three-week lead time and a ream of paperwork? That’s incredibly restrictive. Take the advice above and challenge the legality of the meeting for a start. Is there a residents’ email list you can use to make sure people are aware of exactly what is being proposed?

Paulw

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's your apartment and the management company can FRO
The have zilch legal power and your only mistake is taking them seriously.

You're showing just how little you know.

You don't own your apartment, you simply have a lease on it, and with that lease come terms and conditions. So, a management company has plenty of legal power over their property.

But, I would agree that some try too hard. But, the management company isn't some entity, it is the unit owners, your fellow owners. YOU decide any rule changes.

So, attend the AGMs and EGMs and vote. Get others to attend and use their votes too. If you can't attend, then you can proxy your vote to someone who can attend.

With regards to the painting and decorating, I can't see how that would be a clause that could be applied.

Flooring to dampen sound is a good idea, from many aspects, and also keeps heat.

As has already been said, such a clause can not be retrospective, so you wouldn't be expected to change your unit now.

Anyway, your best plan is to get enough people to vote down such clauses.

CollyFlower

Electric Sheep
Registered User
Quote: koheim
Better idea is to make a rule that people take off their shoes when inside the apartment, problem solved...


"People who have other people living below them should be doing that as a matter of common courtesy anyway"



Agree with the posters above, it's such an easy solution for everyone... However, there are people with fetishists who like to walk around on wooden floors in highheels. Really there is!

Heres Johnny

There's a good friend of mine sells, fits and cleans carpets for a living and says no way would he have them in his own house with the amount of dirt and dust in them.
So say you have asthma and tell them to piss off.
As for the painting thing, that's just stupid why would anyone try to come up with something so unenforceable as these 2 rules is beyond me!!

listermint

Heres Johnny wrote: »

There's a good friend of mine sells, fits and cleans carpets for a living and says no way would he have them in his own house with the amount of dirt and dust in them.
So say you have asthma and tell them to piss off.
As for the painting thing, that's just stupid why would anyone try to come up with something so unenforceable as these 2 rules is beyond me!!

Ever hear of a Hoover in the manky cold wooden floored room.

The_Conductor

pinkypinky wrote: »

I'd question whether a week's notice is a properly constituted EGM as well. Usually 3 weeks notice is required for these things. Check the Memos and Articles of your company.

Its actually laid out under company law- and unless I'm grossly mistaken, its *at least* 28 calendar days. You can specify a longer period of time in your articles of association- however, you can't detract from company law.

Cuddlesworth

Victor wrote: »

There is a requirement for floors to comply with sound transmission rules in the Building Regulations. For timber floors, it typically means putting a foam layer under the timber.

Ceramic tile or vinyl floors can be laid on plywood over insulation.

I was referring to the statement that apartments are not built to code, when most apartments I have been too have had wooden floors installed afterwards(like the OP).

Robbo

The_Conductor wrote: »

Its actually laid out under company law- and unless I'm grossly mistaken, its *at least* 28 calendar days. You can specify a longer period of time in your articles of association- however, you can't detract from company law.

It's 21 days and the Memo/Articles are merged into the company's constitution since the 2014 Act.

blacklilly

Robbo wrote: »

It's 21 days and the Memo/Articles are merged into the company's constitution since the 2014 Act.

Is it 21 days even in the case of an EGM? I thought an EGM could be called by providing 7 days notice, whereas an AGM would require 21 days

antoinolachtnai

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2011/act/2/section/23/enacted/en/html

21 days to change house rules. There may also be a requirement for prior consultation.

The requirement for method statements for minor works like painting appear to me to go beyond what can go in house rules.

For the carpet thing, I think he would need engineering opinion to back up the rule.

The problem for the management co is that if they can’t show how the rule is needed, it may not stand up legally.

This is the case whether the rule is actually passed or not.

Borzoi

seandeas wrote: »

And the second rule is extremely restrictive - among other things, the method statement is asking for a health and safety statement and an “original of the contractor’s insurance policy which will be copied and handed back to the contractor”. I mean what if I just get a handyman from down the road to give the place a coat of paint – he’s not going to have all that

No one will hand over the original insurance documents, but any reputable contractor will give a copy of their insurance certs. That's totally normal in construction.
so are Method Statements and Risk Assessments, but these would imho not be normal for small works.
it sounds like somebody has a vague notion of how construction projects work but are applying them in an OTT way

super_furry

Stuff like this is why Irish people are so disinclined to buy apartments for their long term homes.