I want to talk about TOH and Rob Kearney non-stop.

thomond2006

Have at it.

thomond2006

Here you can exercise your freedom of speech to talk about Rob Kearney.

At the same time, I can exercise my freedom to not click on the thread.

Wegians89

Toh is class

prawnsambo

connachta wrote: »

No. 100 times no.
I don't care if it's Stockdale, Conway Sweetnam or TOH who's picked ahead of Kearney in 2019

But you clearly did in the case of Conway. I'm not bored enough to requote your post on the subject, but if you deny it, I will.

DeadHand

I thought he did very well against Argentina.

connachta

prawnsambo wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

No. 100 times no.
I don't care if it's Stockdale, Conway Sweetnam or TOH who's picked ahead of Kearney in 2019

But you clearly did in the case of Conway. I'm not bored enough to requote your post on the subject, but if you deny it, I will.

What did I do?
I've said (that's not uneasy to understand) :
I want ANY creative FB
If Schmidt trusts Conway, that's fine

connachta

prawnsambo wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

No. 100 times no.
I don't care if it's Stockdale, Conway Sweetnam or TOH who's picked ahead of Kearney in 2019

But you clearly did in the case of Conway. I'm not bored enough to requote your post on the subject, but if you deny it, I will.

What did I do?
I've said (that's not uneasy to understand) :
I want ANY creative FB
If Schmidt trusts Conway, that's fine

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

I want ANY creative FB

What you want is irrelevent.

prawnsambo

connachta wrote: »

What did I do?
I've said (that's not uneasy to understand) :
I want ANY creative FB
If Schmidt trusts Conway, that's fine

You say so many things, possibly you forget that you've said them?

connachta wrote: »

Expected for Dillane to be dropped.
Very upset to see Conway/Kearney not only selected in the squad but starting

connachta

prawnsambo wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

What did I do?
I've said (that's not uneasy to understand) :
I want ANY creative FB
If Schmidt trusts Conway, that's fine

You say so many things, possibly you forget that you've said them?

connachta wrote: »

Expected for Dillane to be dropped.
Very upset to see Conway/Kearney not only selected in the squad but starting

Conway starting on the wing.
Kearney starting FB (instead of Conway/an other)

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

Conway starting on the wing.
Kearney starting FB (instead of Conway/an other)

Your moving the goalposts. You clearly stated you didn't think Conway should be in squad. Now its anyone in the team but Kearney. So your agenda is against Rob Kearney. Its pathetic

Jump_In_Jack

TOH cost Connacht the match today by the way.
Connacht needed a try to draw it and were chasing it with 2 mins to go.
Got caught in possession walking up the pitch, Taking too long to decide what to do and didn't see the tackler coming to nail him, Zebre turned him over and ran in a try.
Connacht lost their losing bonus point because of it.
Awful.

prawnsambo

connachta wrote: »

Conway starting on the wing.
Kearney starting FB (instead of Conway/an other)

There's no other way to read that other than that you were upset that Conway was selected and starting.

You can't claim otherwise, at least not without reaching Kelly-Anne Conway levels of alternative facts. :rolleyes:

Burkie has it right.

connachta

Jump_In_Jack;105446975TOH cost Connacht the match today by the way.
Connacht needed a try to draw it and were chasing it with 2 mins to go.
Got caught in possession walking up the pitch, Taking too long to decide what to do and didn't see the tackler coming to nail him, Zebre turned him over and ran in a try.
Connacht lost their losing bonus point because of it.
Awful.

Draw was not possible at any moment. Zebre led by 6 then 9.

That's utterly stupid to think TOH cost us anyting today.

Jump_In_Jack

connachta wrote: »

Jump_In_Jack;105446975TOH cost Connacht the match today by the way.
Connacht needed a try to draw it and were chasing it with 2 mins to go.
Got caught in possession walking up the pitch, Taking too long to decide what to do and didn't see the tackler coming to nail him, Zebre turned him over and ran in a try.
Connacht lost their losing bonus point because of it.
Awful.

Draw was not possible at any moment. Zebre led by 6 then 9.

That's utterly stupid to think TOH cost us anyting today.

He lost possession resulting in a try the other way.
Clear as day.
If Connacht had scored from that possession there was time to get another.
Losing bonus at least.
Like it or not it cost Connacht, worst timing to make such a poor mistake.
Basics of a fullback's job to run the ball back.
Awful whatever way you look at it.
Lost by 14!

connachta

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Jump_In_Jack;105446975TOH cost Connacht the match today by the way.
Connacht needed a try to draw it and were chasing it with 2 mins to go.
Got caught in possession walking up the pitch, Taking too long to decide what to do and didn't see the tackler coming to nail him, Zebre turned him over and ran in a try.
Connacht lost their losing bonus point because of it.
Awful.

Draw was not possible at any moment. Zebre led by 6 then 9.

That's utterly stupid to think TOH cost us anyting today.

He lost possession resulting in a try the other way.
Clear as day.
If Connacht had scored from that possession there was time to get another.
Losing bonus at least.
Like it or not it cost Connacht, worst timing to make such a poor mistake.
Basics of a fullback's job to run the ball back.
Awful whatever way you look at it.
Lost by 14!

Except on Kelleher break before our pen, Connacht never looked able to break Zebre line. But yeah it's likely they'd have done so if TOH have won 1 meter against 3 defenders on the middle-line.

Jump_In_Jack

connachta wrote: »

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Jump_In_Jack;105446975TOH cost Connacht the match today by the way.
Connacht needed a try to draw it and were chasing it with 2 mins to go.
Got caught in possession walking up the pitch, Taking too long to decide what to do and didn't see the tackler coming to nail him, Zebre turned him over and ran in a try.
Connacht lost their losing bonus point because of it.
Awful.

Draw was not possible at any moment. Zebre led by 6 then 9.

That's utterly stupid to think TOH cost us anyting today.

He lost possession resulting in a try the other way.
Clear as day.
If Connacht had scored from that possession there was time to get another.
Losing bonus at least.
Like it or not it cost Connacht, worst timing to make such a poor mistake.
Basics of a fullback's job to run the ball back.
Awful whatever way you look at it.
Lost by 14!

Except on Kelleher break before our pen, Connacht never looked able to break Zebre line. But yeah it's likely they'd have done so if TOH have won 1 meter against 3 defenders on the middle-line.

3 defenders?
There was one tackler that he didn't even see coming towards him.
Too ponderous.
Should have raced up the pitch, taken it into contact, and used his support to recycle the ball.
Funny, that's something Rob Kearney can do excellently.

connachta

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Jump_In_Jack;105446975TOH cost Connacht the match today by the way.
Connacht needed a try to draw it and were chasing it with 2 mins to go.
Got caught in possession walking up the pitch, Taking too long to decide what to do and didn't see the tackler coming to nail him, Zebre turned him over and ran in a try.
Connacht lost their losing bonus point because of it.
Awful.

Draw was not possible at any moment. Zebre led by 6 then 9.

That's utterly stupid to think TOH cost us anyting today.

He lost possession resulting in a try the other way.
Clear as day.
If Connacht had scored from that possession there was time to get another.
Losing bonus at least.
Like it or not it cost Connacht, worst timing to make such a poor mistake.
Basics of a fullback's job to run the ball back.
Awful whatever way you look at it.
Lost by 14!

Except on Kelleher break before our pen, Connacht never looked able to break Zebre line. But yeah it's likely they'd have done so if TOH have won 1 meter against 3 defenders on the middle-line.

3 defenders?
There was one tackler that he didn't even see coming towards him.
Too ponderous.
Should have raced up the pitch, taken it into contact, and used his support to recycle the ball.
Funny, that's something Rob Kearney can do excellently.

Crashing on defender rather than looking around him? yes he does

Squidgy Black

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

3 defenders?
There was one tackler that he didn't even see coming towards him.
Too ponderous.
Should have raced up the pitch, taken it into contact, and used his support to recycle the ball.
Funny, that's something Rob Kearney can do excellently.

How dare you suggest that TOH made a mistake, that's blasphemous and won't be listened to.

Literally. Won't be listened to.

ionadnapokot

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zv2bAqk9PLw

Running style Reminds me of Running Rob.
I reckon by the time of The Firm was when The Cruiser really hit his straps.
Ethan Hunt would makes a decent FB

prawnsambo

ionadnapokot wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zv2bAqk9PLw

Running style Reminds me of Running Rob.
I reckon by the time of The Firm was when The Cruiser really hit his straps.
Ethan Hunt would makes a decent FB

Ha! I think he's often acknowledged as the actor with the fastest looking running style in film. Not necessarily the fastest, but he looks the part.

Maybe a bit small for FB though.

ionadnapokot

prawnsambo wrote: »

Ha! I think he's often acknowledged as the actor with the fastest looking running style in film. Not necessarily the fastest, but he looks the part.

Maybe a bit small for FB though.

Height wouldn’t be in his favor. but he does have some spring on him
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=knK9hSrd1a0

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

Thank you. It means more gametime during 6 nations for Sweentnam/Stockdale over the Kearneys, above all Dave, even if he's temporarily in-form in January 2018 or January 2019. If we're building for RWC.
Well that's enough said. You're gonna say "no" and all over again. I'm done for today.

Simple questions.

1. Why do you believe we are not building for RWC already?

2. How do you propose to finance the provinces if the IRFU are to sacrifice 6n performance resulting in a drop off in revenue..

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Thank you. It means more gametime during 6 nations for Sweentnam/Stockdale over the Kearneys, above all Dave, even if he's temporarily in-form in January 2018 or January 2019. If we're building for RWC.
Well that's enough said. You're gonna say "no" and all over again. I'm done for today.

Simple questions.

1. Why do you believe we are not building for RWC already?

2. How do you propose to finance the provinces if the IRFU are to sacrifice 6n performance resulting in a drop off in revenue..

I do not believe  that until I see the team for 6 nations.
I just think 6 nations aren't a priority now and Joe is wrong to consider RWC as long-term when it's only in 21 months;
6 nations 2016 and 2017 had to be played for the tournament only. 2018 and 2019 must be played with RWC in mind too.

It's only marginally different. It just means we have to give a bit more gametime to those who need it (Aki, Stockdale, Dillane, Sweetnam, Luke McGrath, Conan, Ruddock) over those who may be in-form in January but have a reasonable chance not to make it to RWC (Trimble, D.Kearney, Cronin, Heaslip, POM if he leaves, I'd add Rob but not the point here).

I know you're gonna say training, training, but gametime, decent gametime matters as much to fit in the squad for those who're currently with less than 10 or 20 caps

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

I do not believe  that until I see the team for 6 nations.
I just think 6 nations aren't a priority now and Joe is wrong to consider RWC as long-term when it's only in 21 months;
6 nations 2016 and 2017 had to be played for the tournament only. 2018 and 2019 must be played with RWC in mind too.

It's only marginally different. It just means we have to give a bit more gametime to those who need it (Aki, Stockdale, Dillane, Sweetnam, Luke McGrath, Conan, Ruddock) over those who may be in-form in January but have a reasonable chance not to make it to RWC (Trimble, D.Kearney, Cronin, Heaslip, POM if he leaves, I'd add Rob but not the point here).

I know you're gonna say training, training, but gametime, decent gametime matters as much to fit in the squad for those who're currently with less than 10 or 20 caps

You didnt answer Q2.

And another question. You do understand that players picked now wont go to RWC?



These guys you mention will get plenty of gametime. And time in camp. It all adds up.

Joe isnt considering RWC as long term. He is considering the RWC now. Look at the squad for the AIs. I expect the 6n squads to be largely those from AIs with the likes of Ringrose, VDF, N Scannell to also get called up.


Joe also HAS to consider the 6n as important in short term due to the financial importance to the IRFU. Its not up for debate. Scotland voted for France 2023 because they get €4million more from it. Just like IRFU who DEPEND on 6n money to survive.

connachta

I won't answer Q2 because I don't know how much money is at stake for 2nd place in 6N compared to RWC QF or SF.
I don't really. Tell me.

prawnsambo

connachta wrote: »

I won't answer Q2 because I don't know how much money is at stake for 2nd place in 6N compared to RWC QF or SF.
I don't really. Tell me.

It would have to be four times as much to equal all the 6N campaigns between World cups.

connachta

prawnsambo wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

I won't answer Q2 because I don't know how much money is at stake for 2nd place in 6N compared to RWC QF or SF.
I don't really. Tell me.

It would have to be four times as much to equal all the 6N campaigns between World cups.

yeah it is 4 times maybe. You don't know either.
And we've as much chance to reach RWC SF as beating England in Twickenham. Probably more.

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

I won't answer Q2 because I don't know how much money is at stake for 2nd place in 6N compared to RWC QF or SF.
I don't really. Tell me.

IIRC in 2015 there was €3.7m for winning 6n. €1.7m for finishing 4th.

RWC revenue is hard to gauge as there is very little definitive info freely available. But we also dont have AIs in RWC year so you have to factor that in too.

So again, how do we pay the bills in the meantime if we sacrifice 6n revenue? Cut connacht maybe?

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

I won't answer Q2 because I don't know how much money is at stake for 2nd place in 6N compared to RWC QF or SF.
I don't really. Tell me.

IIRC in 2015 there was €3.7m for winning 6n. €1.7m for finishing 4th.

RWC revenue is hard to gauge as there is very little definitive info freely available. But we also dont have AIs in RWC year so you have to factor that in too.

So again, how do we pay the bills in the meantime if we sacrifice 6n revenue?  Cut connacht maybe?

So the difference between 2nd and 3rd (likely finish in 2018) is around 500 K.
Just as much as the South African brought to the 12 europeans. No need to cut Connacht (what a missed opportunity it was 10 years ago, right?). Except if, as usual, IRFU kept the 500K for itself and the Leinster's central contracts

Bridge93

NZ received 10.5m for winning the competition. No readily available numbers after that but it seems Australia got about 5m for coming second and the semi finalists somewhere close to 3/3.5m

The irfu got 4m for winning the 6N, you get more for a grand slam. 4th receives 2m apparently

connachta

Bridge93 wrote: »

NZ received 10.5m for winning the competition. No readily available numbers after that but it seems Australia got about 5m for coming second and the semi finalists somewhere close to 3/3.5m

Thanks so RWC SF = 2nd place in 1 6N tounament. Good to know.

prawnsambo

connachta wrote: »

yeah it is 4 times maybe. You don't know either.
And we've as much chance to reach RWC SF as beating England in Twickenham. Probably more.

It is in it's hole four times. You're talking about as much as €12 million for finishing second in the 6N for four successive years without any inflation. Finishing fourth would only be worth €8 million.

There is no prize money for the RWC. WR distribute the profits after expenses to all the participating unions on an undisclosed basis. That disbursement takes place over a few years.

There is no evidence that the profits are disbursed in any way relative to finishing position.

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

Thanks so RWC SF = 2nd place in 1 6N tounament. Good to know.

So 6n is more important financially

And again. What is your master plan to plug the gap if we forsake 6n for a few years.

The SA money is irrelevent. IRFU need every last cent it can get to keep provinces competitive.

Bridge93

Should be noted the payments from 2015 were the highest ever and are unlikely to be that high again unless England host the tournament

Former Former

What has any of this got to do with anything?

With the squad we had for November, planning for the Six Nations and planning for the RWC are the same thing.

In the last six months we've seen the biggest change in personnel in the squad since 2000. Joe has shown that he's not afraid to ditch proven players who are shoving on. Any Ireland fan can see this. But not everyone here is an Ireland fan first and foremost and we need to keep that in mind.

And to bring it back to the thread title, if anyone wants to see why TOH isn't being picked, the highlights of the Zebre game are up on YouTube.

Burkie1203

Former Former wrote: »

With the squad we had for November, planning for the Six Nations and planning for the RWC are the same thing.

But we only gave gametime to 37 (?) Players so clearly we arent planning because TOH wasnt picked. Or something