Heating coming on at night upstairs only!

dibs101

Any help greatly appreciated here...2nd night in a row our heating is running upstairs during the night with clock/controller set to manual and switched off!


Woke up again this morning with all the rads piping hot upstairs, no down stairs rads on, heating controller off and half the cars on the road around the house defrosted as a result!!! Any ideas????


The heating works fine normally, when we switch it on for an hour it heats the house as normal, upstairs and downstairs. When switched off it is heating the rads at night time... with the burner firing up on its own!!!!


We don't use the zoned heating... even though there is motorised valves for it. Any help greatly appreciated!

dibs101

Edit..... the upstairs rads are heating up day and night... while the heating is switched off!!!!

Wearb

Perhaps a faulty or poorly wired frost stat. What sort and position of heating?

Wearb

dibs101 wrote: »

Edit..... the upstairs rads are heating up day and night... while the heating is switched off!!!!

Maybe a faulty zone valve or thermostat or timer. There is something switching it on, they aren't heating without a source of heat.

jimf

faulty motorised valve

dibs101

We had some work done on the house recently and was advised to remove the motorised valve as the electrical connection was buried beneath the slabs. As we done use zoned heating, we agreed and the electrician removed it. Is this the issue.... perhaps the wiring after the motorised valve was removed is the issue???

Pete67

That's very poor advice you got. Zoned heating will save you quite a lot in energy costs when used properly. Why were the electrical connections buried in the walls?

It sounds like the removal of the zone valve was not done properly and the boiler is getting a run signal permanently. Normally it should only run when enabled by one or more zone valves opening, it should shut down when all zone valves are closed.

dibs101

right so boiler is constantly getting turned on... is it possible that there is a permanent live on the boiler now for hot water (wired incorrectly) as heating controller was moved. This is firing the boiler constantly... but because the motorised valve was removed that used to shut off feed to rads that it is now feeding upstairs rads and boiler???? Is this plausible??


Did motorised valve activate when hot water only is demanded to shut off heat to rads???

Pete67

Each zone valve has an auxiliary contact (switch) built in which is normally used to fire the boiler. So for example if the downstairs zone thermostat and programmer are both calling for heat this switches on the appropriate zone valve. When the zone valve is fully open the aux contact in the valve head is made which should fire the boiler.

This control logic has been messed up by the recent work and needs to be put right by someone who knows what they are doing.

dibs101

Thanks Pete/all for replies.


So would the removal of the motorised valve for upstairs alone cause this issue where boiler is firing up while switched off in manual mode?


Here is sequence of events in order...


1) reslabbig walls with insulated boards and builder advises to remove motorised valve for upstairs as we don't use zoned heating control - valve removed
2) Heating controller moved from wall mounted to inside press so all electrical connections disconnected and remade by electrician.
3) Boiler now fires up constantly with rads upstairs also on constantly even though heating controller is in manual mode and set to off.


So is problem


A - that hot water is wired on permanently at controller causing boiler to fire up and heating rads upstairs because motorised valve has been removed?


OR


B - Motorised valve removed for upstairs causing boiler to fire constantly?


Thanks all for advice/help to date.....

jimf

do you have a frost stat at boiler

dibs101

as far as I'm aware the only stat is the one in the hallway.... not at home at the moment but ill confirm later

Pete67

I don't think anyone can tell you exactly what is wrong without looking at the job. Can you get the electrician who did the work back to sort it out?

dibs101

Pete67 wrote: »

I don't think anyone can tell you exactly what is wrong without looking at the job. Can you get the electrician who did the work back to sort it out?

Does this look correct to anyone?

Wearb

dibs101 wrote: »

Does this look correct to anyone?

Yes, for the heating channel

dibs101

Thanks all.....


1 question, If the boiler was coming on but the pump was not would the rads upstairs heat due to gravity and rads downstairs would remain cold????

Wearb

dibs101 wrote: »

Thanks all.....


1 question, If the boiler was coming on but the pump was not would the rads upstairs heat due to gravity and rads downstairs would remain cold????

With an open zone valve I think that’s possible.

dibs101

Wearb wrote: »

With an open zone valve I think that’s possible.

Thanks Wearb....


Thinking now that might be a permanent live to boiler with boiler thermostat turning the boiler on/off and rads upstairs heating due to gravity and open zone valve....


Does the switched live (black wire) turn on pump, boiler or both?

Wearb

dibs101 wrote: »

Thanks Wearb....


Thinking now that might be a permanent live to boiler with boiler thermostat turning the boiler on/off and rads upstairs heating due to gravity and open zone valve....


Does the switched live (black wire) turn on pump, boiler or both?[/QUOTE]

Depends on wiring, often just the boiler and then boiler (depending on type) controls pump, but mostly it switches on both. I would guess that yours is the latter, but cant be sure.

agusta

dibs101 wrote: »

Thanks all.....


1 question, If the boiler was coming on but the pump was not would the rads upstairs heat due to gravity and rads downstairs would remain cold????

In my opinion,it is not possible. there is a motorised valve downstairs.when you turn the time clock on it operates the downstairs motorised valve.
You have a permanent live feeding the boiler from somewhere..
it could be a frost stat in boiler,
it could be that the motorised valve head for upstairs was disconnected from the valve body but the motorised valved head not be disconnected from the wiring system
The electrician who changed the wiring should sort this out for you.its only guess for us to work out what way it is wired at present

Ps Post 11 the question Jimf asked is the first place id be looking!

dibs101

agusta wrote: »

In my opinion,it is not possible. there is a motorised valve downstairs.when you turn the time clock on it operates the downstairs motorised valve.
You have a permanent live feeding the boiler from somewhere..
it could be a frost stat in boiler,
it could be that the motorised valve head for upstairs was disconnected from the valve body but the motorised valved head not be disconnected from the wiring system
The electrician who changed the wiring should sort this out for you.its only guess for us to work out what way it is wired at present

Ps Post 11 the question Jimf asked is the first place id be looking!

This is what was done.......where would the motorised valve be wired from? an output from the heating controller???

agusta

it should go to a wiring center that is fitted after a 5 amp spur switch

jimf

agusta wrote: »

it should go to a wiring center that is fitted after a 5 amp spur switch

ya fitted with a 13a fuse

dibs101

Hi all... thanks for all your help/advice. The electrician had wired a permanent live to the boiler... with gravity heating the rads upstairs! Thanks.

agusta

piping hot rads upstairs and no pump working,not possible in my opinion.i would say the permanent live turned on the boiler and pump,but its good you got it sorted