Marriage over what now.

Losttintransit

For the last 2 years my marriage has been going down the toilet, I don't think or believe I have done anything wrong but basically believe my wife has become very depressed and from that quite abusive. I have tried everything even convinced her to go to marriage counselling which she only went to once. Bascially she said she no longer loves me and there is no point.

So I have accepted it but what now as I can't afford to move out we have only my salary and she will not work full time as claims she wants to be there for the children (12,16 and 18). She said I'm the one with the money so it's up to me to go, but I pay the the mortgage and we are in negative equity.

Basically if I go I need to rent and live and that means very little money left over to keep the family home.

I have considered converting a van into a camper but where do I even park it, help what do I do?

LegacyUser

No. Stay right where you are.
She wants to break up your marriage, then she leaves the house.
You're paying the mortgage! Don't move!
Get legal advice asap

LegacyUser

If your wife is the one ending the marriage then let her move out. Why should you be forced out of a house that you pay for?

I Am_Not_Ice

It sounds like your wife wants to have her cake and eat it too. If she's the one ending the marriage because she no longer wants to be with you then let her be the one to leave. Why should you be forced out of a house that your salary pays for?

Big Bag of Chips

Unfortunately life isn't as black and white as that. You can't make her leave the house, no more than she can make you. You have 2 children that are still considered minors. Whether or not they need a fulltime stay at home parent is debatable. But, as the current primary carer, she is likely to be given control of the house until the youngest I'd 18. If she hasn't worked for a number of years in order to raise your family, then she will be entitled to maintenance. You would be expected to pay towards the mortgage, but if you got good advice and a good solicitor, you might only be asked to pay a portion of the mortgage with your wife also contributing (by getting a job).

You need to get to a solicitor and find out where you stand. Nobody "wins" in a separation. Nobody comes out of it well off. Even if there are 2 salaries in a house, those salaries share the cost of 1 house. Spreading the same 2 salaries across two homes is obviously going to be a struggle. You need the best legal advice you can get. Not to get one over on your wife, but to protect you and get the best possible deal for yourself.

She has no incentive to leave. The house is likely to not be allowed be put up for sale until your youngest reaches 18, so that's another 6 years at least of paying the mortgage, or at least a hefty portion of it. Go to a good solicitor and see what your options are.

People manage when they need to.

Tenigate

Why would you move into a van?

If she wants you out, find a small house or 2 bedroom apartment within a reasonable distance from your work and the kids' home.

She can register with the council as no doubt she'll have a housing need when the bank repossess the mortgaged property.

PS don't agree anything without first speaking to a solicitor.

lazybones32

Do not leave your house. You'll never get in again if you do. Stop thinking about why you should leave.
If she doesn't want to share a marriage bed with you, is there another room that could be temporarily converted for her?
Stand your ground; stay in your house; stay in your bed.

Xterminator

i echo that last advice. your marriage has been 'over' for some time, IE not functioning. Just because the words are said, doesn't change things practically. stay in the family home, keep things civil.

you are entitled to live there as much as she is; and if your wife goes through the separation process and divorce for the 5 years you can stay there if you so desire.

in 5 years time you will have a 17 year old and 2 adult children, and the situation will be much different. Hopefully negative equity will be erased, the need for 'childminding' service will be gone, and you will only have one child dependant, who will be 18 in no time.

and your wife can go back to work - or not, it won't be your business.

the situation then wont be quite as challenging.

dr.fuzzenstein

I'm in 2 minds about staying put, this is first and foremost a financial decision.
The main problem is now, do the OP and his wife put their own lives on hold for 5 years?
Because a quite civil situation can become very awkward when one partner meets someone new.
But I do have one piece of definite advise for the OP. Move into a spare room. Start separating your life.

Losttintransit

We are in separate rooms for over a year now, I have never done anything to her and don't even raise my voice but she is constantly shouting and telling me it's over and since I have the salary it's up to me to move. She also is making life difficult wanting justification or excuse to get me out.

She's has accuse me if having affair which I never did, she stands in doorways blocking me going from room to room and only the other day scooped up cat ****e which our cat did in the house and threw it into my bedroom. Even got hit with a bottles because I didn't respond to stupid accusations about something or other.

I know all these things are to get me to react so she has some leverage to get me out and I have resisted but fearful I will do something someday which I will regret.Obviously things like food, laundry etc etc are also difficult but Jesus I pay for everything and have never done anything. Well I suppose I have shut down emotionally to her since it started but have tried time and time again to resolve it but to no avail. I still end up defending myself from stupid stuff 20years ago.

Half the time I think she is gone off the deep end....

Big Bag of Chips

You really should go to a solicitor, and possibly the guards. You could enquire about getting a safety order against her. It may be difficult, but it's worth looking in to. Contact a solicitor this week.

Whispered

While I know the above posters are right about you staying in the house from a legal standpoint I can't help but think it would be better for the kids, particularly the youngest, if you were to separate properly. It will definitely have an effect on them to hear that sort of stuff going on.

I've no advice, practically you should stay put, emotionally that might be too difficult on you and the kids. Horrible situation for you to be in. Look after yourself while going through this.

Tigger99

She sounds like a horrible and possibly unhinged person. What you have described is abuse.

I'd second the advice to see a solicitor. I'd suggest you also contact AMEN http://www.amen.ie

Malayalam

Throwing cat poo into your room speaks of a woman who has no restraint over her temper. Your situation sounds grim. Perhaps you should go for divorce and full custody of the children, it can't be good for them to be reared by someone with such a temperament. Get a solicitor who is on your side, not the first one that comes to hand. Tell them the whole truth. You are being abused as far as I can make out.

Tenigate

Malayalam wrote: »

You are being abused as far as I can make out.

I'd agree. Keep a log of all the nasty or weird comments and behaviour. When something more outrageous happens file a police report.
Look after yourself. She will wear you down and make up stuff. A weekly solicitor meeting, along with weekly counselling, would be a good investment right now. All this will pass, maybe in as little as a year, and you need to be in a good position when it does. Squirrel away some emergency cash too just in case it comes to the worse.

Malayalam

Tenigate wrote: »

I'd agree. Keep a log of all the nasty or weird comments and behaviour. When something more outrageous happens file a police report.
Look after yourself. She will wear you down and make up stuff. A weekly solicitor meeting, along with weekly counselling, would be a good investment right now. All this will pass, maybe in as little as a year, and you need to be in a good position when it does. Squirrel away some emergency cash too just in case it comes to the worse.

Yes, log all instances of abuse and also build some kind of back record, dates if possible, witnesses where possible though with abuse there are few. Be more clever and calm than you are being. The marriage is over, but you owe you and your children a shot at fairness. I say this as a female.

Tzar Chasm

Malayalam wrote: »

Yes, log all instances of abuse and also build some kind of back record, dates if possible, witnesses where possible though with abuse there are few. Be more clever and calm than you are being. The marriage is over, but you owe you and your children a shot at fairness. I say this as a female.

This, this is the most solid piece of advice in this thread, she will wear you down persistently, she can keep doing it for ages, you only need to react once for her to 'Win' . She only needs you to lose your temper and hit her Once, then she gets everything she wants

Play her at her own game - a little backchat etc when she's being abusive to provoke a slap or something - then call the police to report it. Get your ducks in a row beforehand, maybe a call to guards to record some instances of abuse - a chat with her doctor about the throwing cat poo, bottles etc at you/in your room and other worrying behaviour :let's be fair, there's something not sane about somebody who does that ....there's precedence at least when **** inevitably hits the fan. And it will!

The woman sounds like a loon, but being a man the odds are already against you - you need to play this smartly and be prepared.

beefburrito

Sounds like your wife's been getting her own advice.
I sat one time out for dinner and there was a lady who wanted her man out, fortunately they were married but had no children.

Anyhow some of the coven suggested that she starts intimidating him,make him feel as uncomfortable as possible.

Maybe drive him so cracked he'll nearly hit her.
That thing about standing in your way is the start of you getting accused of hitting her.

If she's unhinged get her assessed and maybe put in psychiatric care....

Right now yourself and the kids are most important,get her out and off to hospital.

She sounds nuts.

Do it before you end up in the damp bedsit,and the kids are at home putting up with an abusive parent.

Big Bag of Chips

beefburrito wrote: »

get her assessed and maybe put in psychiatric care....

....get her out and off to hospital.

Do you know how difficult it is to get an adult admitted to psychiatric care against their will? Very. A guard and I think 2 doctors have to sign them in. An acrimonious marriage breakdown doesn't meet the criteria.

A solicitor is your best bet for now. The guards will tell you they can't actually do anything until she does something that breaks the law.

Call AMEN, and a solicitor.

Whispered

Might be worth reporting the abuse to the police anyway, in case she decides to accuse him of something.

Doltanian

Consider moving whatever money or assets you have out of your name as soon as possible, get proper legal advice, don't let her take you to cleaners although from the sound of it your skint anyway.

beefburrito

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Do you know how difficult it is to get an adult admitted to psychiatric care against their will? Very. A guard and I think 2 doctors have to sign them in. An acrimonious marriage breakdown doesn't meet the criteria.

A solicitor is your best bet for now. The guards will tell you they can't actually do anything until she does something that breaks the law.

Call AMEN, and a solicitor.

Amen the solicitor is probably part of the coven.
Solicitors can be more trouble,her side will probably suggest the only way she can be rid of him is if he....and if he doesn't.....

Mary would be better than Amen, Amen knows feck all about how women think, Mary doe's.

I used a female solicitor for my family law situation and came out quite well.

Is Amen one of those celebrity solicitors, I never heard of him.

LegacyUser

Install CCTV in& around your house, pretend your house alarm has "broken", have the security company leave the cameras on 24/7 in the hallways& living areas (not bedrooms for obv reasons). A picture tells a thousand words.

Big Bag of Chips

beefburrito, Personal Issues is a heavily moderated forum due to the sensitive nature of posts here. Flippant responses are not welcome. I'm not sure if you're serious or trying to be funny, but whatever it is, it is not the standard of posting required in this forum.

Please read the forum charter before posting again. And maybe research an organisation before you advocate, or dismiss it, on thread.

Rubberchikken

Has she been to her gp? Is it possible theres an underlying health issue behind some of her behaviour.
I'm not justifying this behaviour, just wondering.

MissShihTzu

I think the best thing for you to do is see a solicitor straight away. I would also go as far as setting up some kind of covert recording as well in your room. Do you keep it locked? I would start doing that from now on, especially as your wife is now throwing cat waste at you. Who knows what other nastiness/craziness she will find to do?

Do you have friends or family you can confide in, to take the pressure off?

eurasian

Stay in the house and calm down. Definitely report any abusive and threatening stuff. This way you will overplay her controlling and provocative behaviour. This is not a man/woman problem. You're an individual first of all and fully entitled to protect yourself and your children from such a disastrous person.
Start gathering evidence and report recent voilence right away.
Plenty of great advice were given above. Make it your strategy and you will be ok.

Dial Hard

Xterminator wrote:

you are entitled to live there as much as she is; and if your wife goes through the separation process and divorce for the 5 years you can stay there if you so desire.

in 5 years time you will have a 17 year old and 2 adult children, and the situation will be much different

Just on this - first of all, it's 4 out of 5 years, not a full 5 year wait.

But second of all, and far more importantly, it's not just a case of wait the required time and poof! you can get a divorce. It's possible but *extremely* difficult to satisfy a court that you've been living completely separately while still in the same household. Basically, starting tomorrow, they would have to completely separate their finances - no shared living expenses, no bills coming out of a joint account, no shared money AT ALL - and continue that for at least four uninterrupted years. Based on what the OP has told us of his wife, that is not going to happen.

OP, you need decent, unbiased legal advice and you need it now. Ignore the nonsense spouted here about finding a solicitor who's "on your side"; you need an excellent, impartial family law solicitor who knows the system and knows that keeping things calm, equable and on the record is what will ultimately stand to you in court.

Mr. Incognito

1. Get legal advice

2. Get Medical Advice

3. Get legal advice again.

BrokenArrows

As has been mentioned already dont move out.
You are not legally required to move out and if you move out then getting back in will be a lot harder.

Other posters have mentioned that you should make a note of when thing happen. Id also suggest you carry a voice recorder in your pocket which is permanently recording when you are in the house. You can use the audio to backup the incidents that you have noted.
Video would be better but it would be hard to install video in the house apart from your bedroom. Try and install a video camera which faces the door of your bedroom.

How is she with the kids?
Is the abusive and short tempered with them?
You should make notes of these incidents too as it will be good in the future to determine custody.

pwurple

It really sounds like your wife was suffering from depression, which has progressed onto further mental health issues. 
She needs help. Are you on speaking terms with her family, can you contact them for assistance?  Can you discuss with your own GP and get advice on how to handle it?

LegacyUser

Do not move out.
Get legal advice.. in the long run you'll need a solicitor anyway and you may as well get advice now. Try to be civil, the more you can agree with your wife the easier the legal path will be. You have every right to seek custody of your children if you have a fear for their safety hence keep a note of all the erratic incidents. Be calm, your children's opinion of you will matter.
Was in the same situation as you.

Airyfairy12

She needs to leave. Is she honestly kicking you out and still expecting you to pay for a roof over her head?

She doesnt want to work because she's expecting you to continue looking after her financially, it has nothing to do with your kids. Youve been paying the mortgage so the house is yours. She has to go, theres no other option here imo.

ziggyman17

surely she has family members you could talk to about this ? a sister or brother or her parents that can see that she is going off the rails.......

AndrewJRenko

Legal advice is important. I've no direct experience but I've heard stories of dads being treated very badly by the Courts. There is a risk that she will get exactly what she wants in Court - you out of the house, and you continuing to pay for her house and her lifestyle.

Get good legal advice from a solicitor experienced in this kind of issue.

Dr Crayfish

ziggyman17 wrote: »

surely she has family members you could talk to about this ? a sister or brother or her parents that can see that she is going off the rails.......

I'd be pretty sure they'll be on her side, I doubt she's telling them what a wonderful father and husband he is.

Cocksy

agree with Sfggvv stay there

LegacyUser

To OP,
My second time posting advice to you on this issue.
1) please see a solicitor
2) keep your wife (ex wife) on side (difficult but can be achieved)
3) discuss options with her, the options are
a) You both continue to live in the house but separate financially, wait until youngest is finished full time education then split assets 50/50
b) You take custody of children, she gets her freedom & you ask her to leave (selling house when youngest is finished...)
c) opposite of b, she has custody
d) same as b but remortgage house now
e) same as d but ex takes kids

I have been through this. I'm male. I have custody of my children but pushed through everything now rather than waiting, sometimes your wife's motives are to leave the family not just you so please try to tease this out! I'm very happy now & so is my ex, I do everything for my children & work full time.!

D13exile

I wonder how many people commenting here have actually been in the OP's position? Well I have and it makes for uncomfortable reading as it digs up very unhappy memories for me. My ex was a cold hearted, sneering and violent woman. No matter what I did, she was never happy. I bought her cars, paid for her to go on holidays with her family and friends but never so much as a thank you, or even a respite from her abusive behaviour. While we both worked, I paid all the mortgage and bills. When I finally had enough and said I wanted a divorce, she was off to her Solicitor quick as a flash and I got a letter seeking €1,500 a month in Maintenace for her and the kids, I was to sign the house over to her and I was to get out. I went to three different Solicitors who basically told me I was fcuked as the Courts favour the women.

Well I'm not the lay down and die type but the following three years was sheer and utter hell. I went to Social Services (Tusla) about my ex hitting the kids, neglecting them etc and they said I was "just trying to score points against my wife". Tusla interviewed my kids who confirmed that their mother was violent towards them and Tusla asked them "is daddy making you say these things?", even though I was the far side of the country on business the day they were interviewed. The result of this was that Tusla said my wife had no case to answer.

The courts appointed a child psychologist to interview the kids and while the kids once again confirmed that their mother was violent, he watered this down in his report and cast doubt on the children's accounts by saying that "they may have been coached" , presumably by me. Well I never dragged my children into this **** storm and never ever talked badly about their mother in front of them but once again, the family law apparatus couldn't get its head round the fact that perhaps, just perhaps, the woman was in the wrong in this particular instance.

I did have some minor victories in that my wife lied repeatedly to her own legal team and in court and I had proof of these lies which the judge frowned upon and he ordered her to start contributing towards the mortgage and bills, which she ignored without repercussions btw. I got an interim barring order against her when she punched me in the face in front of the kids but this was overturned on appeal when the judge refused to allow my eldest child give evidence that she saw her mother hit me.

When we finally got to court for the divorce, the repsective legal teams started on their horse trading to work out a deal. Looking back I conceded far too much but I was desperate to get her out of my life. In the end, I got joint and equal custody of the children, the family home was sold and the proceeds split between us and the child benefit that she'd squirrelled away for her own use was also divided equally. My legal fees came to €24,000 for all this.

To sum up, you are fighting an uphill battle, even if "right" is on your side. The family law courts are insanely biased towards women, no matter what the facts are. Social Services are biased towards the woman, even when the kids say that the mother is violent. The solicitors and barristers are only interested in your money, not in you. They get paid win or lose. It will take a terrible toll on your mental, emotional and physical health. You may succumb to suicidal thoughts from sheer hopelessness. I got through it as I've a great family and a life long friend who kept my chin up. I also loved my children more than life itself and I kept going for them.

I'm out the other side now, poorer but happier. I've a new house that I'll be paying for until I'm 65. I won't ever be able to afford a foreign holiday. I'm praying that my 7 year old car keeps going for as long as possible as I can't replace it. However my ex is no longer living with me, I no longer get punched, kicked and abused every day. I have my kids half the week and I have mental peace. I go for long walks with my dogs enjoying the peace and fresh air and I can go home and sit down without listening to her sneers, abuse or her coming into my room at night while I'm asleep and punching me in the face.

So that's my tale. For what it's worth, contact Amen as they'll help you cope with any abuse you're getting. Keep a diary of her abuse. Talk to family and friends, DO NOT CUT YOURSELF OFF FROM THEM OR YOU'LL END UP IN A VERY DARK PLACE! Find a Solicitor who'll at least fight for you as opposed to getting you the "least worse deal". Don't move out of your home or she'll get it by default. Spend as much time with your children as they'll get interviews by a court psychologist and you want them to talk about daddy in a favourable light, and not as someone who sits in the corner brooding over how tough he has it.

I've met someone new since my split and she's lovely in every respect of the word but I don't think I'll ever remarry after the hell I went through. Not fair on her I know but I have my own place now and I won't allow anyone, no matter how good a woman she is, take control over my life or home again.

AndrewJRenko

Congrats on getting through the other side of a very difficult situation with what sounds like most of your sanity intact. Well done.

SummerHaze

she must leave if she wants

LegacyUser

Op, I feel compelled to respond to the very honest posting from d13exile and advise you that is his experience... I too am male & everything he wrote is all too familiar but a man can have a good outcome. Here's a way
1. Keep your wife on side, communicate in a friendly manner
2. As a priority get a solicitor. Female if possible - gender can be important in these cases
3. Try to avoid court, work out a separation agreement between you both through calm conversation
4. Split the house now (you need to convince her to do this now rather than waiting)
5. Offer to be the primary career so she can have her freedom
6. Do not leave the house
7. Keep the kids happy
8. Same as 6
9. €3,500 in solicitors fees all in if you avoid court

I've been through it, have my child, my home but did pay her a very significant fee to start her life again. Everything d13exile says about your emotional well being is very true, you need a few close advisers who can keep you sane because it's a slow process.

See a solicitor today

D13exile

Sympathy but see solicitor wrote: »

<Snip>

All sound and good advice......providing your wife is willing to cooperate. I tried the mediation route to avoid losing tens of thousands to the legal eagles. I suggested I take the children so she could have her freedom (as she put it) and I offered to let her keep the child benefit, half the proceeds from the sale of the family home, and I'd make no claim on her inheritances of €50,000. But no, she wanted it all, no compromise. So it was off to court we went and between us we handed over the guts of €50,000 to the legal profession. The outcome of the divorce, well she has her freedom, she got the child benefit monthly payment, half the proceeds of the sale of our home and she has her inheritances. So due to her utter stubbornness, we both ended up poorer but with the same "deal" I offered at mediation but took three years in courts and a fortune in legal fees.

The root of the problem is that women believe (and rightly so) that they will get what they want in court and the man will get fcuked. Their family and friends all tell them this and so,they do not want to compromise in the slightest. The family law courts would have you believe that their primary concern is the welfare of the children and the default position is that the children stay with the mother who is regarded as primary carer. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the 21st century and men put in as much time and love caring for their children as mothers do? Yet men are still seen as just sperm donors and lads who booze their money away while poor wifey is at home struggling to make ends meet. Think I'm bitter or exaggerating? Not really. The courts aren't interested in facts like some women are violent and not fit to be guardians. The Judges don't want to have to actually hear a case. The relief on my Judges face when the two legal teams told her that an agreement had been reached was evident to see. My own legal team (all women) made constant subtle threats that if I didn't concede here or give ground there, the Judge (also a woman) would give everything to my ex. I'm wiser now than I was then and I should have had more backbone but I just wanted away from that woman I married and I gave in too easily. I guess the moral of the story is to bring a good friend or family member along to the court and have them advise you as the legal eagles want a quick settlement and not what is in your long term interest.

<Snip>You can and will get through this. You might not believe that (I know I didn't) but you will survive and you can start again.

First things first, get a family member or friend on board as your support/confidante. Let them help choose a Solicitor. Bring them along to the consultations as you may be too upset/angry etc to think straight. You'll need to type up your statement of claim or your defence if your wife gets in there first. Try and get your case heard in Dublin as the family law courts sit weekly there. My case was heard down the country and the family law courts only sat every three months which dragged out the torture and the costs. Don't let your solicitor or barrister browbeat you into something you're not happy with. Get your family member or friend to proof read everything before you sign it. With these simple tips, you'll find the strength to see this through.

Very best of luck to you. I've been at my lowest during this ordeal but I got through it. You will too!

Big Bag of Chips

Mod Note:
D13exile, please don't encourage a poster to get into a PM exchange. Read the Forum Charter and the post stickied at the top of the forum to understand why.

Thanks.

D13exile

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Mod Note:
D13exile, please don't encourage a poster to get into a PM exchange. Read the Forum Charter and the post stickied at the top of the forum to understand why.

Thanks.

Apologies. No offence meant. Just wanted to,help out the guy. It's a lonely place he's in and he might not have the support from family and friends that I had. Even with this support, I wandered down some dark alleys mentally.

But rules are rules and once again, no offence was meant.

swaner

Sfggvv wrote: »

No. Stay right where you are.
She wants to break up your marriage, then she leaves the house.
You're paying the mortgage! Don't move!
Get legal advice asap

Exactly bro!