Tenants and landlords given guidelines on rent increase rules

Lumen

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1123/922201-residential-tenancies-board-guidelines/

RTB PUBLISHES GUIDELINES FOR GOOD PRACTICE ON THE "SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE" EXEMPTION IN RENT PRESSURE ZONES
https://www.rtb.ie/search-results/news/article/2017/11/23/rtb-publishes-guidelines-for-good-practice-on-the-substantial-change-exemption-in-rent-pressure-zones

The full guidance PDF is quite detailed.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/images/uploads/Comms%20and%20Research/RTB_Guidelines_for_good_practice_on_the_substantial_change_exemption_in_Rent_Pressure_Zones.pdf

rawn

If only they had released these guidelines along with the rule!

Graham

I can't remember when I last read such a woolly set of guidelines.

Unlikely to constitute a substantial change

• Internal upgrades (on an individual basis)
• Upgrade of kitchen
• Upgrade of bathroom(s)
• Painting and decoration
• Plaster repairs
• Replacement of carpets/flooring

Note that a combination of a number of improvements may suffice as a substantial change

While it's no bad thing to see some guidelines, there's enough might/may/possibly sprinkled about the document that it barely clarifies anything.

I guess it's good that it identifies a few things which on their own wouldn't constitute a substantial change. That's some progress.

Lumen

Graham wrote: »

I can't remember when I last read such a woolly set of guidelines.

I assume that they can't go beyond the legislation, and that in itself is imprecise.

Would be so much easier if the legislation had allowed for a % increase to current rent based on % increase in market rate from improvements. As it stands the outcome is binary, heavily favouring either the tenant or the landlord. That's a recipe for disputes.

ClaptonBay

Just seen an article on this. Recently moved out of Dublin and was paying well below market rate for a 2 bed in Dublin 6 area. When leaving we asked what she would likely rent the apartent for - said about 400e more a month..nuts. Anyway the landlord said they had planned on doing 'renovations' and mentioned updating the kitchen, not sure what else.

Based on the reports released your not allowed up the rent more than 4% of the previous tenants rate,depending on what constitues significant renovations. I feel like sending the current occupants a letter outlining the rate we were paying and for them to ask the landlord what renovations were done since we moved out. Would they have a case to challenge the Landlord if there wasnt significant renovations done? Or the more likely scenario, is that the occupants wouldnt want to challenge as they wont want to risk losing a renewal on the lease. 

Hypothetically if they did challenge, would the fact they have signed a lease override any chance of them being successful in bringing a case to have the rent reduced?

Graham

ClaptonBay wrote: »

Hypothetically if they did challenge, would the fact they have signed a lease override any chance of them being successful in bringing a case to have the rent reduced?

No, it shouldn't have any effect on their chances.

A tenant cannot opt-out of the legislation.

Cuddlesworth

ClaptonBay wrote: »

Based on the reports released your not allowed up the rent more than 4% of the previous tenants rate,depending on what constitues significant renovations.

You would assume that the PRTB writes to all landlords and new/old tenants asking for confirmation of the substantial works. But from what I have seen, nothing. Another empty threat enshrined into law.

rawn wrote: »

If only they had released these guidelines along with the rule!

As long as the legislation has its rather vague wording, that guidelines booklet means little to nothing.

DubCount

Graham wrote: »

I can't remember when I last read such a woolly set of guidelines.

+1

I dont think these guidelines do anything to help. Regardless of what guidelines are released by the RTB, its ultimately the interpretation of the courts that will be the final answer, but at least give some practical direction of how a RTB tribunal will entertain certain works.

If a new kitchen is installed, is that substantial? What about new windows, or just 1 new window, or a new front door. What about moving a partition wall or ..... Everyone is still in the dark.

April 73

What does "good practice" actually mean? Can the RTB base decisions on their arbitrary definition of "good practice"?

the_syco

ClaptonBay wrote: »

I feel like sending the current occupants a letter outlining the rate we were paying and for them to ask the landlord what renovations were done since we moved out. Would they have a case to challenge the Landlord if there wasnt significant renovations done? Or the more likely scenario, is that the occupants wouldnt want to challenge as they wont want to risk losing a renewal on the lease.

Not 100% sure, but pretty sure that once in, and past the first 6 months, they can stay for 4 years under Part IV, without having to renew any lease?

pwurple

Talk about race to the bottom.

If a new kitchen, a decent one can easily cost 19k, can’t get you any kind of payback, landlords will obviously stick to cheapest of the cheap and go for the 2k cardboard kitchen instead. Sellotape repairs.

Lumen

pwurple wrote: »

Talk about race to the bottom.

If a new kitchen, a decent one can easily cost 19k, can’t get you any kind of payback, landlords will obviously stick to cheapest of the cheap and go for the 2k cardboard kitchen instead. Sellotape repairs.

Are you really going to spend 19k more often than every four years? Because that's the maximum amount of time you have to wait for a tenancy to terminate naturally, I think.

Victor

Lumen wrote: »

Are you really going to spend 19k more often than every four years? Because that's the maximum amount of time you have to wait for a tenancy to terminate naturally, I think.

Now 6 years.

Victor

Lumen wrote: »

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/images/uploads/general/RTB_Guidelines_for_good_practice_on_the_substantial_change_exemption_in_Rent_Pressure_Zones.pdf

There were problems with that link. New link: RTB Guidelines for good practice on the substantial change exemption in Rent Pressure Zones

Short version What is a substantial change in the nature of accommodation?

pwurple

Lumen wrote: »

Are you really going to spend 19k more often than every four years? Because that's the maximum amount of time you have to wait for a tenancy to terminate naturally, I think.

But you didn’t need to wait 4 years to renegotiate the rent.

I did a complete overhaul of a place years ago, replaced all the floors, repainted, replaced the kitchen. Tenant remained, we had agreed an increase in rent in advance. They wanted it done up, i was happy to do it if as it brought it up above the standard of the other units nearby, as long as it also increased my income.

Can’t happen now.

April 73

Bottom line at the moment is that there is zero financial incentive for landlords to improve or upgrade their property.

charleville

DubCount wrote: »

+1

I dont think these guidelines do anything to help. Regardless of what guidelines are released by the RTB, its ultimately the interpretation of the courts that will be the final answer, but at least give some practical direction of how a RTB tribunal will entertain certain works.

If a new kitchen is installed, is that substantial? What about new windows, or just 1 new window, or a new front door. What about moving a partition wall or ..... Everyone is still in the dark.

What I want to know is how do they check that the works has been done,
Do you just provide receipts ?
Do they come out before and after to inspect ?

It’s all so vague in detail