The LIberties, what future for the area?

KevinOD88

I'd be very interested to hear what people think the next 5-10 years will be like for the area.

I've lived on Meath st back in 2007 for 2 years, moved abroad in 2010 and back on Meath st for the last 3 years and it seems that very little has changed. Some of the old shops have closed in the last 12 months yet they had gone through the recession. Very few new places have opened, but for an area which is 10 minutes walk from Stephen's green and spans between some of the most visited sites in Dublin, it's not really picking up. There's only one rstaurant open for dinner that's not a pub.

When comparing to lot of other European cities where the used-to-be working class / factories areas have become trendy and "place to be" type of area, The Liberties seem to remain an exception.

How do you people see the area changing in the next 5 to 10 years?

Ben D Bus

I'm not sure of the exact boundaries of The Liberties, but there are a couple of new hotels getting off the ground as well as hundreds - possibly over a thousand - of new students going to be accommodated in the area from next year.

Add to that the proposed Guinness development to the west and several smaller developments going on, I think the changes will be significant over the next 10 years. I can see Thomas St. becoming the new Camden St. with them being joined via Francis St and Kevin St.

Basically studenty, trendy but still a bit grotty in places.

I'll carefully avoid mentioning the Iveagh Markets as this has been promised for decades at this stage.

orangerhyme

KevinOD88 wrote: »

I'd be very interested to hear what people think the next 5-10 years will be like for the area.

I've lived on Meath st back in 2007 for 2 years, moved abroad in 2010 and back on Meath st for the last 3 years and it seems that very little has changed. Some of the old shops have closed in the last 12 months yet they had gone through the recession. Very few new places have opened, but for an area which is 10 minutes walk from Stephen's green and spans between some of the most visited sites in Dublin, it's not really picking up. There's only one rstaurant open for dinner that's not a pub.

When comparing to lot of other European cities where the used-to-be working class / factories areas have become trendy and "place to be" type of area, The Liberties seem to remain an exception.

How do you people see the area changing in the next 5 to 10 years?

I think it's up and coming.

Like the other poster said, there's 100's if not over 1000 students moving in.
Also the Guinness St James Gate development.
Also Newmarket sq is being redeveloped.

It already has NCAD and digital hub.
Also with Christchurch, Guinness Storehouse, Dublins already lots of tourists in the area.

The Iveagh market redevelopment would be great but as the other poster said, don't hold your breath.

Also, it might not be technically the liberties but st Teresa's gardens and the factories around it are being developed also.

Also theres a new park on Cork st which is cool.

KevinOD88

Thanks for the replies folks. I can see these new students accommodations being built up but frankly I'm not sure it's an added value to the area, other than having more cheap take always and small tesco express kinda shops.

I wonder why it's not being looked after by mid 30s couples working in the city demographic type.

What comes first? People and then businesses and infrastructures follow or the other way around?

orangerhyme

KevinOD88 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies folks. I can see these new students accommodations being built up but frankly I'm not sure it's an added value to the area, other than having more cheap take always and small tesco express kinda shops.

I wonder why it's not being looked after by mid 30s couples working in the city demographic type.

What comes first? People and then businesses and infrastructures follow or the other way around?

I think a lot of the Newmarket sq apartments will be for professionals, families, social housing etc.

I used to work there so I have a fondness for the area.
The history is really fascinating.
Brenda Fricker lives on Meath st.

I was always thinking that Guinness should scale down the factory and move outside the city.
They could scale it down to just the Storehouse and a small brewery and redevelop the rest of the land.
Then they would still retain the brewed in Dublin authenticity.

Pretty much all the land from Temple bar to heuston station is factory and kinda wasted.

I guess demand comes first, right now that's for apartments in the city centre, then comes shops, cafes etc.

KevinOD88

orangerhyme wrote: »

I think a lot of the Newmarket sq apartments will be for professionals, families, social housing etc.

I think one of the problem of the area is the density of social housing, between Pimlico, the flats on Swift alley and Oliver Bond, it gives the area a bad name and I can see why shops will be reluctant to open around here.

orangerhyme wrote: »

I guess demand comes first, right now that's for apartments in the city centre, then comes shops, cafes etc.

Kind of catch 22 situation then, as to balance out the social housing population, more middle class, professional population is needed to attract commercial activities and infrastructures ( parks and green spaces that don't become drug addicts hang outs or filled with litter and rubish) this very middle class, professional demographic categories wouldn't consider living here because there's nothing for them.

orangerhyme

KevinOD88 wrote: »

I think one of the problem of the area is the density of social housing, between Pimlico, the flats on Swift alley and Oliver Bond, it gives the area a bad name and I can see why shops will be reluctant to open around here.




Kind of catch 22 situation then, as to balance out the social housing population, more middle class, professional population is needed to attract commercial activities and infrastructures ( parks and green spaces that don't become drug addicts hang outs or filled with litter and rubish) this very middle class, professional demographic categories wouldn't consider living here because there's nothing for them.

There's definitely a few dodgy looking heads around the place, also you're surrounded by the dolphins barn area and at Teresa's gardens so dodgy people pass through also.

We had a bike lockup at work in a courtyard and despite security and CCTV, bikes were getting nicked all the time.

We would watch the CCTV back and it would just be hooded youths, impossible to do anything.

I know its a cliche though, but the majority of the locals are just normal working class people and obviously a mix of immigrants and students too.

I like the area, has real character and history and the locals are generally lovely.

But yeah definitely some dodgy scobes also.

Some good pubs like Arthur's and Thomas house, forgot to mention vicar st also.

wakka12

The liberties isn't going to become trendy because the vast majority of its old architecture was demolished to build council flats. How do you work with that? I think some parts actually need to be rebuilt. There was so much heritage lost needlessly, liberties used to to be really beautiful, 60 years ago or so.

Its certainly improving though. A lot of buildings proposed around newmarket area for example

KevinOD88

wakka12 wrote: »

The liberties isn't going to become trendy because the vast majority of its old architecture was demolished to build council flats. How do you work with that? I think some parts actually need to be rebuilt. There was so much heritage lost needlessly, liberties used to to be really beautiful, 60 years ago or so.

Its certainly improving though. A lot of buildings proposed around newmarket area for example

Yeah this is what makes me think that there's little hope for this neighbourhood, decisions made to plaster the area with council flats are now hindering the use of what could be a gold triangle from Christchurch to the Cathedral and pointing to Guinness brewery. It could have been very easy to channel the tourists from Dame st westward and the people coming from Houston st eastward.

I suppose that there's no hope DCC relocate some of the social housing units in less historically interesting areas so that the city center limits will be extended to Saint James gate.

Heritage preservation never seemed to be a concern in the city anyway. Iveagh Market is a perfect example of the lack of strategy from DCC.

wakka12

KevinOD88 wrote: »

Yeah this is what makes me think that there's little hope for this neighbourhood, decisions made to plaster the area with council flats are now hindering the use of what could be a gold triangle from Christchurch to the Cathedral and pointing to Guinness brewery. It could have been very easy to channel the tourists from Dame st westward and the people coming from Houston st eastward.

I suppose that there's no hope DCC relocate some of the social housing units in less historically interesting areas so that the city center limits will be extended to Saint James gate.

Heritage preservation never seemed to be a concern in the city anyway. Iveagh Market is a perfect example of the lack of strategy from DCC.

Its not even the fact that they're council flats thats the problem, its that council flats have completely horrible facades that in no way relate to their street environment. Small windows too far from ground level, ugly cheap red brick, white pvc windows, no shops at street levels
Completely prevents the area from ever becoming interesting, need shops and ground level businesses to bring people to an area!

And yeh sadly. Need only look at wood quay though, sums up what any government planning bodies think about the historical heritage of dublin. If they had any respect for dunlins history,wood quay would be demolished and the offices moved elsehwere and wood quay restored as an area showcasing viking heritage of the liberties. Even merely as a sign of respect for the cultural vandalism they committed.

The fact that they demolished parts of Dublins medieval city walls and gates, nearly ancient chapels, and dozens of others of dunlins oldest buildings, and then as a final kick in the balls decided to build those manky looking concrete bunkers on top of it all is enough to make me sick to my stomach WHYYYY did the offices need to be on such a central site in the first place, was the workers waterfront view more important than the a large chunk of some of the cities most important history.
Anyway sorry about the rant its just something Im a bit obsessed with.

subpar

Overall I would be optimistic , although progress will be gradual and given the experience in the Docklands will take about 20 years.

For me the key to the regeneration of the area is its central artery Thomas St. Whilst there has been some renewal here it has been in overall decline for the past few decades. Get Thomas St looking better with a mix of good shops / restaurants / coffee shops / apartments and even a cinema and the wider area will also develop . In the meantime put pressure on the city council to really up their game in terms of street cleaning / litter pick up / graffiti removal and the planting of trees and the the residents and visitors will have a more positive view of the area.

miamee

I'd be optimistic too that the area will improve in the next few years. In fact I'd be a bit worried for the locals of the area that they will be oushed out of their community by hipster coffee shops and bars where they are not welcome but there are no alternatives. That's a way off but it'll probably happen.

The history in the area is amazing and such a shame that most of it has been left to rack and ruin. I volunteered as an ambassador to the area one summer (2015 I think) so we got a little training about the points of interest in the area to direct tourists to. Unfortunately, most tourists are only passing through on their way to Guinness so it's hard to get them to hang about in the area and spend some time and money there.

The Liberties Dublin is a good facebook page to follow if you are interested in the development and improvement of the area.

Gavin "shels"

subpar wrote: »

Overall I would be optimistic , although progress will be gradual and given the experience in the Docklands will take about 20 years.

For me the key to the regeneration of the area is its central artery Thomas St. Whilst there has been some renewal here it has been in overall decline for the past few decades. Get Thomas St looking better with a mix of good shops / restaurants / coffee shops / apartments and even a cinema and the wider area will also develop . In the meantime put pressure on the city council to really up their game in terms of street cleaning / litter pick up / graffiti removal and the planting of trees and the the residents and visitors will have a more positive view of the area.

257 student apartments going in above the section were Frawleys was with shops all on the ground floor - you'd imagine there will be cafes, etc... as Thomas St is saturated with Lidl, Dealz, Spar, Tesco, Centre...

spurious

They thought the Liberties would die when they relocated the Custom House to where it is now in 1791 - it didn't.

Muahahaha

KevinOD88 wrote: »

I'd be very interested to hear what people think the next 5-10 years will be like for the area.

I've lived on Meath st back in 2007 for 2 years, moved abroad in 2010 and back on Meath st for the last 3 years and it seems that very little has changed. Some of the old shops have closed in the last 12 months yet they had gone through the recession. Very few new places have opened, but for an area which is 10 minutes walk from Stephen's green and spans between some of the most visited sites in Dublin, it's not really picking up. There's only one rstaurant open for dinner that's not a pub.

When comparing to lot of other European cities where the used-to-be working class / factories areas have become trendy and "place to be" type of area, The Liberties seem to remain an exception.

How do you people see the area changing in the next 5 to 10 years?

I have the very same opinion as yourself in that back in 2009/10 you could see the area was screaming out for development and it looked like it was happening. But actually over the last 7 years not a whole lot has gone on all considered. The Iveagh Market redevelopment would have been a great focal point but now that that project has gone tits up too. For me it is amazing that it hasnt developed quicker, especially considering how close to town it is. Over the last 5-6 years Kilmainham and Stoneybatter have both seen lots of new cafes/shops & residents pop up in the area but the Liberties seems overlooked.

All that said I still do think now that other areas like Stoneybatter are overcooked that the Liberties is now riper than ever for investment. I just would have thought it would have happened sooner than now.

subpar

Virtually nothing happened in the period between 2008 and 2014 , even in the Docklands which is the prime location in the city for new developments and regeneration projects.

wakka12

The Iveagh markets would be great and a massive pull factor towards that part of the city, I think that development alone could bring huge amount of life to the liberties