85 million euro investment for Limerick, but here`s the rub ...

realitykeeper

Why should the people of Limerick have to get 85 million euro further in debt for an urban regeneration project when Dublin spends billions on itself with money from the (Limerick based) Collector General? The Dubs don`t have to repay money they steal from the rest of the country.

If for any reason, Limerick has to default on the repayments on this debt, I sincerely hope the debt will be moved onto the national balance sheet where it belongs. I say this as a Cork man.

TherapyBoy

Sure if we had to repay it there'd be no point in stealing it at all.

lawred2

realitykeeper wrote: »

Why should the people of Limerick have to get 85 million euro further in debt for an urban regeneration project when Dublin spends billions on itself with money from the (Limerick based) Collector General? The Dubs don`t have to repay money they steal from the rest of the country.

If for any reason, Limerick has to default on the repayments on this debt, I sincerely hope the debt will be moved onto the national balance sheet where it belongs. I say this as a Cork man.

What?

realitykeeper

TherapyBoy wrote: »

Sure if we had to repay it there'd be no point in stealing it at all.

Obviously.

realitykeeper

lawred2 wrote: »

What?

Begging my pardon is the expression you are looking for.

Vladimir Poontang

Hopefully the first thing they do is stop referring to it as the Opera Centre.

Cookiemunster

realitykeeper wrote: »

Dublin spends billions on itself with money from the (Limerick based) Collector General? The Dubs don`t have to repay money they steal from the rest of the country.

The Dubs, as you call them, actually pay far more into the national pot than they take out (as do all urban areas compared to rural areas). They don't steal a penny from the rest of the country. In fact, if you want to put it that way, it's the other way around. Maybe check out some facts before ranting.

And nobody but Limerick CCC, forced Limerick CCC to take out such a loan.

zulutango

The OP's post is poorly worded, but I think what s/he's getting at is that Limerick City & County Council taking on this debt is a fairly unique situation. Public sector development in Dublin (and everywhere else) is financed by the national exchequer so the whole country is in hoc for it, as opposed the local authority.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the plan doesn't work out then LCCC would be bankrupted and would have to go cap in hand to the Dept. of Finance, which really is not a good scenario.

I'm supportive of Limerick Twenty Thirty, in broad terms, but these are important points that should be addressed.

juneg

Didn't Limerick cc nearly bankrupt themselves with the tunnel project if I recall correctly?
I wouldn't trust them to sell tickets for a raffle

Glenomra

juneg wrote: »

Didn't Limerick cc nearly bankrupt themselves with the tunnel project if I recall correctly?
I wouldn't trust them to sell tickets for a raffle

I thought that the tunnel was funded from national funds?
I never realised that Limerick Council had to pay for it

zulutango

I'd say juneg is confusing two different projects and two different financial ****-ups.

Limerick Tunnel: As part of the PPP contract with Direct Route (the operators of the tunnel), the State guaranteed to reimburse them for lost toll revenue if the number of vehicles dropped below 18,000 per day (open to correction on the figure). Lo and behold, much less than the agreed traffic volumes were using the tunnel so the State had to cough up considerably.

http://www.limerickpost.ie/2017/03/09/tunnel-cost-taxpayer-e4-5-million/

Limerick Main Drainage: This did effectively bankrupt the Council. The Council was sued by the original contractor after he was kicked off the job, and (if I remember correctly) the Council didn't go about it the right way and had to find €40 million €32 million to pay him off. I think the Dept. of Finance had to bail them out then.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/limerick-council-must-pay-32m-for-cancelled-drainage-contract-1.1001833

pigtown

realitykeeper wrote: »

Why should the people of Limerick have to get 85 million euro further in debt for an urban regeneration project when Dublin spends billions on itself with money from the (Limerick based) Collector General? The Dubs don`t have to repay money they steal from the rest of the country.

If for any reason, Limerick has to default on the repayments on this debt, I sincerely hope the debt will be moved onto the national balance sheet where it belongs. I say this as a Cork man.

I can't think of any other comparable project. Yes the state finances urban regeneration in the form of social and affordable housing, like in Ballymun or Southill, but I don't think it has ever financed commercial buildings to such a scale before.

chicorytip

pigtown wrote:

I can't think of any other comparable project. Yes the state finances urban regeneration in the form of social and affordable housing, like in Ballymun or Southill, but I don't think it has ever financed commercial buildings to such a scale before.

This development is being funded to the tune of 85 million by the European Investment Bank(EIB). The money is being loaned to Limerick City and County council in a long term (25 year) agreement. Repayments will be made from revenue gathered from commercial tenants. There are no residential elements in the plan. It is the biggest ever investment by the EIB in Ireland for a project of this type.

mitresize5

I was wondering how long this forum would take to turn the best news story to hit Limerick for a long time into a bad news story.

Jawgap

realitykeeper wrote: »

Why should the people of Limerick have to get 85 million euro further in debt for an urban regeneration project when Dublin spends billions on itself with money from the (Limerick based) Collector General? The Dubs don`t have to repay money they steal from the rest of the country.

If for any reason, Limerick has to default on the repayments on this debt, I sincerely hope the debt will be moved onto the national balance sheet where it belongs. I say this as a Cork man.

Borrow and spend away......sure the crash you predicted for this month means not having to repay anything

zulutango

mitresize5 wrote:

I was wondering how long this forum would take to turn the best news story to hit Limerick for a long time into a bad news story.

Insightful commentary there.

juneg

You're right zulutango. Financial f**** ups indeed. The link I followed said that Limerick main drainage scheme cost the exchequer 83 million.

pigtown

chicorytip wrote: »

This development is being funded to the tune of 85 million by the European Investment Bank(EIB). The money is being loaned to Limerick City and County council in a long term (25 year) agreement. Repayments will be made from revenue gathered from commercial tenants. There are no residential elements in the plan. It is the biggest ever investment by the EIB in Ireland for a project of this type.

I know. I was trying to outline how this project differed from whatever the OP was talking about.

realitykeeper

Glenomra wrote: »

I thought that the tunnel was funded from national funds?
I never realised that Limerick Council had to pay for it

Of course Limerick Council had to pay for it. Only Dublin gets to steal funding from the rest of the country.

realitykeeper

Jawgap wrote: »

Borrow and spend away......sure the crash you predicted for this month means not having to repay anything

Moral hazard comes in many guises, I had not realized you were one of them.

realitykeeper

juneg wrote: »

You're right zulutango. Financial f**** ups indeed. The link I followed said that Limerick main drainage scheme cost the exchequer 83 million.

Had the project been fully funded by the exchequer like it should have been, savings would have been made by not having to pay interest on the loan.

Cookiemunster

realitykeeper wrote: »

Of course Limerick Council had to pay for it. Only Dublin gets to steal funding from the rest of the country.

No. They. Didn't. The Limerick tunnel is a PPP payed for by tolls. And if the toll numbers aren't high enough (as has occured) the government step in to pay the shortfall. Limerick CCC didn't have to pay a penny towards the tunnel.

realitykeeper wrote: »

Had the project been fully funded by the exchequer like it should have been, savings would have been made by not having to pay interest on the loan.

Central government builds things like schools, hospitals, garda stations, court houses (currently being built actually) and social housing. They don't build city center office developments. Where are you getting this idea from?

Jawgap

realitykeeper wrote: »

Moral hazard comes in many guises, I had not realized you were one of them.

Just a polite reminder of the approaching deadline for the apocalypse you predicted