How public servants dodge pension bullet

KOR101

Wondering if this is really true.....

Take a garda who joined in May 1995 at age 25. They pay PRSI, so their public service pension is integrated with their State contributory pension entitlement. But they are not due to get the State pension until 68.
Let’s say that they retire in 2025 at the age of 55 after 30 years’ service, on full pension. Their salary at retirement is, say, €90,000. The public service defined-benefit element of their pension will be €32,348.
The garda is not due to get the State contributory pension until 68, a wait of 13 years.
However, provided they remain unemployed and are not receiving any social welfare benefits, they will get a “supplementary pension” of €12,652 a year between now and 68. This will bring their total public service pension up to 50pc of their salary at retirement.



So, you can take early retirement and get the State Contributory Pension part of your pension immediately, say at age 60?


https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-independent/20171113/283162903879537

Riskymove

KOR101 wrote: »

Wondering if this is really true.....


So, you can take early retirement and get the State Contributory Pension part of your pension immediately, say at age 60?

It is noticeable that the Indo uses the example of a Guard, who can retire after 30 years as an example to beat all Public Servants with

A Civil servant who joined after April 1995 MUST retire at 65 but cannot get State Pension until 66 (rising eventually to 68 and probably 70 by the time they retire). The CS pension they woudl get is reduced by the amount of the State pension

However a civil servant joining before April 1995 and who also MUST retire at 65 has no State Pension element of their pension and gets paid full pension immediately

To bridge the gap and treat everyone equally the supplementary pension is used....alternatively the post1995 people would draw dole for the period despite being mandatorily retired (which would result in same cost anyway)

KOR101

Riskymove wrote: »

To bridge the gap and treat everyone equally the supplementary pension is used....alternatively the post1995 people would draw dole for the period despite being mandatorily retired (which would result in same cost anyway)

So it is true. I had always assumed that if I retired at 60, I would just get the work part of my pension until I reached 67 (in my case). That really does change the calculation about early retirement. I still feel I must be missing something.

KOR101

According to this, you must fail to qualify for Job Seeker's benefit, and through no fault of your own.

3.1 Supplementary pension is available, on application, to retirees in order to make up the shortfall in pension for the period between date of retirement and the age of eligibility for the State Contributory Pension where the non-payment of Social Welfare Benefits is through no fault of the retiree.

3.2 To qualify for a Supplementary Pension you must:
• Be a fully insured Public Service i.e. pay A1 PRSI contributions;
• Retire on or after the age of 60;
• Be an old entrant, i.e. been employed as a public servant prior to 1st April, 2004;
• Fail to qualify for Job Seeker’s benefit or reduced benefit (written confirmation from the Department of Social Protection will be required);
• Not be employed in any capacity post retirement;
• Not be retiring on ill health grounds and receiving other social welfare payments;
• Fail to qualify for State Contributory Pension or reduced rate (written confirmation from the Department of Social Protection will be required).

daithi84

KOR101 wrote: »

So it is true. I had always assumed that if I retired at 60, I would just get the work part of my pension until I reached 67

If you were recruited post 1995 and are paying class A PRSI you will not receive the state pension at 60 if you go early, you will only receive the state pension part once you turn 65 or 67 as you stated. You should receive a portion of your lump sum and the work pension you paid into based on the numbers of years service. If you are a pre 1995 employee and class D PRSI you will receive all pension once retiring at 60 depending on amount of years service you have at retirement.

This is all news to most people. Once they raised the state pension age to 66 increasing to 68 over the next few decades, it was assumed public servants would claim job seekers for the in between years until they reached the retirement state age. Most public servants have contracts which state they must retire at 65, no negotiation. Whats also left out is that public servants who have accrued their 40 years service before 65 are still required to pay pension contributions up until 65 even though they have already paid for their pension.

Riskymove

KOR101 wrote: »

• Fail to qualify for Job Seeker’s benefit or reduced benefit (written confirmation from the Department of Social Protection will be required);

No surprise if true, Indo not known for researching facts well

so in reality the position is the same for private and public in that the jobseekers must be sought

Raggaroo

KOR101 wrote: »

Wondering if this is really true.....

Take a garda who joined in May 1995 at age 25. They pay PRSI, so their public service pension is integrated with their State contributory pension entitlement. But they are not due to get the State pension until 68.
Let’s say that they retire in 2025 at the age of 55 after 30 years’ service, on full pension. Their salary at retirement is, say, €90,000. The public service defined-benefit element of their pension will be €32,348.
The garda is not due to get the State contributory pension until 68, a wait of 13 years.
However, provided they remain unemployed and are not receiving any social welfare benefits, they will get a “supplementary pension” of €12,652 a year between now and 68. This will bring their total public service pension up to 50pc of their salary at retirement.




So, you can take early retirement and get the State Contributory Pension part of your pension immediately, say at age 60?


https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-independent/20171113/283162903879537

Garda Salary on retirement of € 90,000 !!!!!!! What Garda is on that salary ?

KOR101

Riskymove wrote: »

No surprise if true, Indo not known for researching facts well

so in reality the position is the same for private and public in that the jobseekers must be sought

There may be something going on here although, as Raggaroo points out, €90,000 seems a tad out for the final salary of a Garda, so the whole thing may just be a wind up.

Seeing as this applies to those who started post 1995, cases relating to this would only be starting to show up now.

Riskymove

Raggaroo wrote: »

Garda Salary on retirement of € 90,000 !!!!!!! What Garda is on that salary ?

A Chief Super Intendent

so a very common Indo example!!

anyway the salary is irellevant to this issue ....they obviously just couldn't help themselves in stirring up things

ThumbTaxed

Civil servants retiring now have amazing and completely over inflated pensions but those who joined in recent years have average pensions not worth talking about.

I think many in private sector don't know how little someone will get in civil service with say 30 years service. Difficult now to have 40 years given recruitment ages

Riskymove

Riskymove wrote: »

No surprise if true, Indo not known for researching facts well

so in reality the position is the same for private and public in that the jobseekers must be sought

You saying the private sector worker, on failing to get Job Seeker’s benefit, will also get the supplementary pension ?

It is you that's wrong, not the Independent.

endacl

Raggaroo wrote: »

Garda Salary on retirement of € 90,000 !!!!!!! What Garda is on that salary ?

A clever one, who played his cards right?

Riskymove

salonfire wrote: »

You saying the private sector worker, on failing to get Job Seeker’s benefit, will also get the supplementary pension ?

It is you that's wrong, not the Independent.

well I am not saying that so how can I be wrong about it?

How would anyone paying Class A PRSI for 30 or 40 years not get jobseeker's benefit?

KOR101

Riskymove wrote: »

well I am not saying that so how can I be wrong about it?

How would anyone paying Class A PRSI for 30 or 40 years not get jobseeker's benefit?

But then question then becomes which public servants have succeeded in getting it and why. There may be something behind this story that is not yet apparent.

KOR101

Below is a post from Politics.ie. So, it is saying you only get the job seeker's benefit for 9 months. When that time is up, you CAN claim the Supplementary Pension. Learning as I go here........
_________
They are working now, they joined after April 1995, so their total pension is combined with the state pension. If you refer back to what the poster "loaf" said here at post 81:

"If their total pension (occupational pension + state pension) = 25k, then as it currently stands yes, that's exactly what would happen. Public servants are currently expected to sign on for jobseekers allowance for the 12 months between mandatory retirement at 65 and the kicking in of the state pension. An option which is also open to private sector employees of course."

Their compulsory retirement age is 60, not 65. For their colleagues that joined pre 1995 and who are now retiring (not many of them left as I believe) after 30 years (accelerated pension) then using loaf's 25k example above, they are getting that 25k pension when they retire, as they have no entitlement to the state pension as they didn't pay PRSI contributions for it.

The officers that did pay the PRSI contributions (who joined after 1995), they are being advised that they won't get over 12k (the state pension part) as this isn't payable until they are 67 (rising to 68 in 2028). So their pensions will be 12.5k (approx).

So when they come to retire at 60, they are being advised to sign on for Job Seekers benefit, which is only payable for 9 months. One person was then told that after that he was to apply for a supplementary pension until he was 67.

One of the conditions of that payment however, is that he won't be allowed to work,

Now he is querying this, because to his mind there is something extremely wrong with this as if you take two people working the same job for the same amount of time, one joined pre 1995 and the other post 1995, both of them retire on the same salaries of say, 50k, one gets the 25k pension and can work if he wants (he won't get the state pension).

The other will only get the 12.5k "occupational " part of the pension, and in order to get the same pension as his colleague, he has to sign on the dole (which still leaves a shortfall as the JSB is 193 and the state pension is 238.30) for 9 months, then if he gets the supplementary pension to bring him to the same 25k pension as his pre 1995 colleague, then unlike his pre 1995 colleague, he can't work for 7 years.


Just to also clarify, from 2025 is when the post 1995 can retire with full service of 30 years.

ThumbTaxed

Raggaroo wrote: »

Garda Salary on retirement of € 90,000 !!!!!!! What Garda is on that salary ?

Farce is it is true

Riskymove

Riskymove wrote: »

well I am not saying that so how can I be wrong about it?

How would anyone paying Class A PRSI for 30 or 40 years not get jobseeker's benefit?

You said "so in reality the position is the same for private and public in that the jobseekers must be sought"

It is not the same.

Private Sector Worker does not qualify for Jobseeker Benefit, does not get anything (maybe an Allowance, based on means test)


Public Sector Worker does not qualify for Jobseeker Benefit, get a supplementary pension to tide them over until State Pension age. (regardless of their means).

Riskymove wrote: »

How would anyone paying Class A PRSI for 30 or 40 years not get jobseeker's benefit?

Maybe they were abroad for years and only entered the workforce in recent years. Or else they were a stay at home parent.