Grieving family claim friend of dead brother is using suicide note....

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I was reading this news article in the Indo this evening. A 'grieving family claim friend of dead brother is using suicide note to get his life insurance.'

Why would the family believe it's 'their money'? While it must be a very difficult time for his facility, is their claim just plain greed ?

The chap was suffering from depression but left a note to leave everything to his friend. Why do the parents believe it belongs to them?

A quote "I don't understand why this friend is trying to take the money that Paul left behind from us." It sounds like he didn't want them to have it.

What are your thoughts AH?

The_Valeyard

I honestly thought that if a person was unfortunate enough to commit suicide, that would void any insurance you had?

Tigger

Killian Brief Jukebox wrote: »

I was reading this news article in the Indo this evening. A 'grieving family claim friend of dead brother is using suicide note to get his life insurance.'

Why would the family believe it's 'their money'? While it must be a very difficult time for his facility, is their claim just plain greed ?

The chap was suffering from depression but left a note to leave everything to his friend. Why do the parents believe it belongs to them?

A quote "I don't understand why this friend is trying to take the money that Paul left behind from us." It sounds like he didn't want them to have it.

What are your thoughts AH?

can you change the benificary in a suicide note?

Tigger

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I honestly thought that if a person was unfortunate enough to commit suicide, that would void any insurance you had?

no there is a waiting period but after that you are gtg

alchemist33

A suicide note doesnt count as a will.

Tigger

i'd bet a large amount that the friend is acually the partner

Tigger

alchemist33 wrote: »

A suicide note doesnt count as a will.

its not a will its survivorship

which is different
however it still probably wont count

Vela

Whoever he left the money to is who it should go to. We don't know what the story was with his family and we'll only ever hear one side of it. He made his wishes clear.

Goat of Lochmarne Castle

Unless his suicide note was signed by 2 witnesses (who can't be named beneficiaries) then it's worthless from a legal pov.
He probably died intestate meaning the State will distribute his assets according to law.

edit - just read this happened in Australia, which complicates the matters somewhat for his family.

Gatling

Pretty sad situation ,

Hopefully a court settles it quickly so the family can get on with their greving

soups05

if his friend was that close then let him pay for the funeral costs etc. the family are struggling with money due to this so let them have it and the friend can get stuffed.

heldel00

This is a private family matter and is disgusting that they are willing to discuss it publicly and look like moneygrabbers.

spurious

Tigger wrote: »

i'd bet a large amount that the friend is acually the partner

That was my first thought too. Perhaps they didn't know him as well as they thought. Sad case for all involved though. Terrible it has been dragged into the papers.

arayess

legality aside. Let the courts fight that out if needs be.
But its' clear what the lads wishes are.

The families "woe is me" attitude stinks, they are upset may lose a claim on this money and that's it.
Stuff like this done in public lacks dignity.

The link for donate to the legal fund at the end of the article was vomit inducing

Guy:Incognito

arayess wrote: »

The link for donate to the legal fund at the end of the article was vomit inducing

Every ****er is at that these days. As soon As something happens the first thing done is set up a go fund me to get strangers to pay for it.

Del2005

Gatling wrote: »

Pretty sad situation ,

Hopefully a court settles it quickly so the family can get on with their greving

One of the longest running court cases was over a millionaire's fortunes will. It eventually ended after several decades when the money ran out. The only people who won were the legal teams.

Families, death and fighting over money never ends well.

pauliebdub

arayess wrote: »

The link for donate to the legal fund at the end of the article was vomit inducing

The Indo online seems to be one go fund me article after another these days. Stuff like this should be kept private, it's totally undignified.

buried

Killian Brief Jukebox wrote: »

What are your thoughts AH?

The Irish Independent is nothing but a rotten trash rag that even a demented plague ridden rat wouldn't take a $hit on. It and it's tabloid clickbait trash gossip can f**k off to the seventh circle of total absolute Hell.

Oldtree

Just an awful story. Can't understand people washing their dirty laundry in public and trying to get people onside. Just sad all round on so many levels.

The_Valeyard

Tigger wrote: »

no there is a waiting period but after that you are gtg

How does not work. Would they not declare it fraud? Say killing yourself for life insurance payout to make family financial secure. Or you mean oassing3 ownership or car and house?

Birneybau

buried wrote: »

Killian Brief Jukebox wrote: »

What are your thoughts AH?

The Irish Independent is nothing but a rotten trash rag that even a demented plague ridden rat wouldn't take a $hit on. It and it's tabloid clickbait trash gossip can f**k off to the seventh circle of total absolute Hell.

Clickbait tabloid trash leads to clickbait threads...

soups05

soups05 wrote: »

if his friend was that close then let him pay for the funeral costs etc. the family are struggling with money due to this so let them have it and the friend can get stuffed.

If he wanted his friend to have it, then let him have it. It's a dying man's wish after all. But the costs of getting the body back and funeral etc. should come from it first.

I've already told my mother that if anything happens me, I want everything to go to my girlfriend after the costs of getting me back to Ireland. I like to think they wouldn't tell her to get stuffed.

Annasopra

Vela wrote: »

Whoever he left the money to is who it should go to. We don't know what the story was with his family and we'll only ever hear one side of it. He made his wishes clear.

A note is not a will though

denismc

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

A note is not a will though

There was a case in Australia where an unsent text was accepted as a legal will, not sure if that would be allowed here though.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-41580970

munster87

buried wrote: »

The Irish Independent is nothing but a rotten trash rag that even a demented plague ridden rat wouldn't take a $hit on. It and it's tabloid clickbait trash gossip can f**k off to the seventh circle of total absolute Hell.

No need to hold back!

IvyTheTerrible

And this is exactly why, if at all possible, you should give your money to the desired recipients before you die.

Ralf and Florian

Del2005 wrote: »

One of the longest running court cases was over a millionaire's fortunes will. It eventually ended after several decades when the money ran out. The only people who won were the legal teams.

Families, death and fighting over money never ends well.

There was a fictional case in Dickens Bleak House that has given it's name to these kind of unending legal proceedings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarndyce_and_Jarndyce

Atoms for Peace

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If he wanted his friend to have it, then let him have it. It's a dying man's wish after all. But the costs of getting the body back and funeral etc. should come from it first.

I've already told my mother that if anything happens me, I want everything to go to my girlfriend after the costs of getting me back to Ireland. I like to think they wouldn't tell her to get stuffed.

Under the law if you die without a will your parents are entirely entitled to tell her get stuffed.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Goat of Lochmarne Castle wrote: »

Unless his suicide note was signed by 2 witnesses (who can't be named beneficiaries) then it's worthless from a legal pov.
He probably died intestate meaning the State will distribute his assets according to law.

edit - just read this happened in Australia, which complicates the matters somewhat for his family.

And there has been a recent case where an unsent text message on a dead persons phone was considered his last will and testiment so I believe a signed suicide note would actually hold more water than an unsent message.

Either way the family are not being respectful to their sons wishes.

Edit: as far as I was aware life assurance policies do not pay out if the death is by suicide?

It would be utterly ridiculous if they did, how can someone take out a policy for X amount payable on their death and then kill themselves triggering an instant and full payout of the policy? Surely no insurance company offers such a life assurance policy anywhere in the world!!

Why did his sister take it upon herself to buy flights for family members? Why should that be paid for from the deceased’s estate? Paying for the funeral is another thing. Did they overrule the friend and go for a massively expensive one? If a lawyer thought they had a case, the question of payment up front wouldn’t arise.

Cee-Jay-Cee

buried wrote: »

The Irish Independent is nothing but a rotten trash rag that even a demented plague ridden rat wouldn't take a $hit on. It and it's tabloid clickbait trash gossip can f**k off to the seventh circle of total absolute Hell.

Could I interest you in a yearly subscription to the Indo on-line perhaps?

Ice Storm

Tigger wrote: »

i'd bet a large amount that the friend is acually the partner

There was a comment to that effect on the go fund me page yesterday which seems to have been removed.

Interesting how the family are fighting the money going to someone they refer to as "a stranger" yet are appealing to strangers to fund their legal costs.

Birdsong

Deleted User wrote:

I've already told my mother that if anything happens me, I want everything to go to my girlfriend after the costs of getting me back to Ireland. I like to think they wouldn't tell her to get stuffed.

Not enough, you need to put it in a will

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I've already told my mother that if anything happens me, I want everything to go to my girlfriend after the costs of getting me back to Ireland. I like to think they wouldn't tell her to get stuffed.

Telling your mother is of no use. If you die intestate, your girlfriend won't get a cent.

A will costs €100 to €200, there really is no excuse for not having one. No sympathy for anyone whose estate gets chewed up in legal fees because they were too busy/mean to make a will.

MarcusP12

Deleted User wrote: »

Telling your mother is of no use. If you die intestate, your girlfriend won't get a cent.

A will costs €100 to €200, there really is no excuse for not having one. No sympathy for anyone whose estate gets chewed up in legal fees because they were too busy/mean to make a will.

Bit of an odd statement that, considering the person you have no sympathy for is, in theory, dead!!! I'm not too sure they will care about your lack of sympathy as they'll be too busy, you know, being dead like. Bit of a cold out look on things don't you think? I agree with your point that its important to have a will in place but there are any number of reasons why people might not have gotten around to it, especially young people who die suddenly in tragic circumstances. Life is not that straight forward. Not getting around to something that may not seem overly important at the time (e.g. a young person in seemingly good health) does not always mean being too busy or being mean.

To imply that someone (I remind, who's dead) essentially deserves to have whatever amount of their estate, whether that be modest or substantial, hovered up by the legal profession while a grieving family tries to sort out things in the absence of a will, is a really strange statement to be honest. And to suggest that this is due to being too busy or mean is equally bizarre.

So a young person heading out to work in the morning....keys - check, phone - check, will in place - oops, better not let myself get run down by a drunk driver or else i'll deserve all additional misery heaped on my family for not having a will in place.....silly person!

Yes, we should all have a will but I think that's a pretty low blow of a statement.....

_Kaiser_

I think this may backfire on the family in question.

Their son is dead and yet their main focus seems to be who gets his money.

It's not theirs to begin with. If he wanted to leave it to his friend/partner/whoever then that's what should happen.

MarcusP12

MarcusP12 wrote: »

So a young person heading out to work in the morning....keys - check, phone - check, will in place - oops, better not let myself get run down by a drunk driver or else i'll deserve all additional misery heaped on my family for not having a will in place.....silly person!

Yes, we should all have a will but I think that's a pretty low blow of a statement.....

Erm, think you picked that up wrong. I was responding to the idea that telling someone about ones wishes instead of making a will was appropriate, not ruminating on life and death.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's not theirs to begin with. If he wanted to leave it to his friend/partner/whoever then that's what should happen.

Not without a valid will. Manifestations of intent do not amount to a will. Though they may point to a constructive trust.

MarcusP12

Deleted User wrote: »

Erm, think you picked that up wrong. I was responding to the idea that telling someone about ones wishes instead of making a will was appropriate, not ruminating on life and death.

How did I pick you up wrong? Genuine question...you said you have no sympathy for someone who's estate is picked over by solicitors when they were too busy/mean to have a will. But not having a will is only ever a problem when the person who should have had one is, you know, dead. So you basically don't have sympathy for a dead person, who could have died young tragically, just because they didn't get around to having a will probably because they didn't think they'd need it that day. Not to mention the hassle it brings to a grieving family. Seems like a cold outlook on what is a valid point, and lacking in empathy. Or am I missing something here?

MarcusP12

MarcusP12 wrote: »

Or am I missing something here?

I think so.

You are referring to a death. I am referring to the presence or absence of a will.

server down

It’s actually odd that he had life insurance. He had no mortgage, dependents etc.

Carlos Orange

server down wrote: »

It’s actually odd that he had life insurance. He had no mortgage, dependents etc.

Not sure if it was technically life insurance but my first job had a payout if I died. Think it was twice my salary. Maybe he had something like that.

MarcusP12

Deleted User wrote: »

I think so.

You are referring to a death. I am referring to the presence or absence of a will.

I don't think so in that case. You may have meant that but you phrased it wrong.....read your statement again....here it is:

"No sympathy for anyone whose estate gets chewed up in legal fees because they were too busy/mean to make a will."

The "anyone" and "they" (same person) you refer to above who you have no sympathy for is a dead person because in my basic understanding of life and death, you can't leave behind an estate to be chewed up by lawyer unless you are DEAD! The chewing can't happen until you are dead....

Anyway, its not really relevant to the thread....I was just alarmed by the coldness of the statement....

Tigger

The_Valeyard wrote: »

How does not work. Would they not declare it fraud? Say killing yourself for life insurance payout to make family financial secure. Or you mean oassing3 ownership or car and house?

you can buy life indurance and once there is a waiting period covered you will be covered, i assume because they reccon you didnt already plan it

btw many suicides in this country are recorded as accidents

Cee-Jay-Cee

Tigger wrote: »

you can buy life indurance and once there is a waiting period covered you will be covered, i assume because they reccon you didnt already plan it

btw many suicides in this country are recorded as accidents

No they’re not. They’re recorded as Person Misadventures.

The_Valeyard

The_Valeyard wrote: »

How does not work. Would they not declare it fraud? Say killing yourself for life insurance payout to make family financial secure. Or you mean oassing3 ownership or car and house?

If he disclosed his medical history fully when taking out the policy, and the insurers were aware of his mental health difficulties when issuing the policy, then it's likely the claim will be valid (subject to a waiting period, usually at least one year) unless there was a specific exclusion applied to death from suicide.

If he had genuinely never had any mental health problems prior to taking out the policy, and any depressive episodes occurred only afterwards, then the claim would also still probably be valid. However, the sister's comments indicate that he had suffered from depressive episodes early in life, so if he had not disclosed this to the insurers when taking out the policy then it's possible the claim will be void. Depends on the insurer and what their underwriting T&C's were at time policy was taken out.

sjb25

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's not theirs to begin with. If he wanted to leave it to his friend/partner/whoever then that's what should happen.

100% agree with this however if the family legally contest it then if no will is in place that suicide note isn't really worth the paper its wrote on unfortunately I'd say the family will win the case I'd say not that it's right

Tigger

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

No they’re not. They’re recorded as Person Misadventures.

single vehicle car crashes late at nght are often suicides the national suicide research foundation recons at least 10% probably more
tgey are recorded as accidents
same applies to drownings

mel.b

server down wrote: »

It’s actually odd that he had life insurance. He had no mortgage, dependents etc.

He as in Australia wasn't he? In Australia superannuation is compulsory and along with most super accounts you can also have death cover and total/permanent disability insurance attached for a small deduction. The amounts involved can be significant. I am Australian, and while i now live in Ireland, I have maintained this. It's sombering to know I'm worth a s*&^ load more dead than I am alive:eek:

Someone also mentioned insurance not paying out in the cases of suicide. As long as the waiting period has been served (generally 12months) they will pay out. A friend's young husband (in NZ) took his own life a few years ago and she received a lump sum as well as payments for the kids every fortnight until they are 18.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Telling your mother is of no use. If you die intestate, your girlfriend won't get a cent.

A will costs €100 to €200, there really is no excuse for not having one. No sympathy for anyone whose estate gets chewed up in legal fees because they were too busy/mean to make a will.

I haven't been in Ireland in like seven years so haven't had the chance. Would a will do much good for a non-EU recipient?