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Unpopular GAA opinion - MOD Note #426

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,462 ✭✭✭dobman88


    This Mayo team isn't as good as people are making out. If they were as good as people say, they would have won their all Ireland by now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    kilns wrote: »
    The case was made that Clarke won the goalkeeper award because he made lots of saves and saved Mayo's bacon in two games and Cluxton did not get it because he didnt get as much action. Mayo played less division 1 teams than Dublin also in their run. This would indicate that one of the defences was much poorer than the other. However the "poorer" defence received 66% of the all stars up for grabs in defence. Logically it does not make sense, does it?

    Mayo played more games and played Kerry twice. If Cluxton and co had done the same he'd have gotten a few more chances to make saves and his defence would have had more work to do, I don't think that can be denied.
    Mayo defend man for man, so they will concede more chances, but their defenders will also stand out more. For example Barrett's turnovers in the final. If that was 2-3 guys crowding out one man, it is viewed quite different, and rightly so in my book. Individual excellence like what barrett displayed should be rewarded with individual awards.

    I can spin that around for you - James McCarthy was being lauded for an all star ad mf, yet the same James McCarthy was in midfield when Mayo won pretty much every kickout for an entire half. Most of these were won by tom parsons, who didn't get an all star. He was changed to wing back and played better, but Parsons should get the all star at mf, correct? Logically it doesn't make sense, right?


    Anyway, back to the opinions..


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    kilns wrote: »
    The case was made that Clarke won the goalkeeper award because he made lots of saves and saved Mayo's bacon in two games and Cluxton did not get it because he didnt get as much action. Mayo played less division 1 teams than Dublin also in their run. This would indicate that one of the defences was much poorer than the other. However the "poorer" defence received 66% of the all stars up for grabs in defence. Logically it does not make sense, does it?

    Mayo played more games and played Kerry twice. If Cluxton and co had done the same he'd have gotten a few more chances to make saves and his defence would have had more work to do, I don't think that can be denied.
    Mayo defend man for man, so they will concede more chances, but their defenders will also stand out more. For example Barrett's turnovers in the final. If that was 2-3 guys crowding out one man, it is viewed quite different, and rightly so in my book. Individual excellence like what barrett displayed should be rewarded with individual awards.

    I can spin that around for you - James McCarthy was being lauded for an all star ad mf, yet the same James McCarthy was in midfield when Mayo won pretty much every kickout for an entire half. Most of these were won by tom parsons, who didn't get an all star. He was changed to wing back and played better, but Parsons should get the all star at mf, correct? Logically it doesn't make sense, right?


    Anyway, back to the opinions..
    Ha ha you are hiliarous. Again if Mayo man for man in defence were so good how come Clarke got so much action?
    An All star should be considered over a whole season and you highlight one half of football for James McCarthy but neglect to mention the rest of his season and the fact he was the best player on the pitch in the second half.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,267 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    dobman88 wrote: »
    This Mayo team isn't as good as people are making out. If they were as good as people say, they would have won their all Ireland by now.


    I disagree, I do believe that in any other era this Mayo team would have won a couple of All-Irelands.

    Unfortunately for them, they have come up against the greatest team to play the game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    kilns wrote: »
    Ha ha you are hiliarous. Again if Mayo man for man in defence were so good how come Clarke got so much action?
    An All star should be considered over a whole season and you highlight one half of football for James McCarthy but neglect to mention the rest of his season and the fact he was the best player on the pitch in the second half.

    I just explained the first part.
    Re mccarthy, he had a great second half alright, but he did so from wing back... Again, how can he get an all star in midfield, going off your above logic? Similarly you are finding fault with the mayo defenders, yet barrett was the best player on the pitch in the final, in the same way you are arguing in favour of mccarthy. You are contradicting yourself completely man.

    I'l be the one to get back to the topic

    I dont think cluxton had all that good a year this year and that clarke was actually well ahead of him


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    You explained because Mayo played more games against inferior opposition to who Dublin faced. Again if they went man to man how come their opponents scored lots of goals and forced Clarke into lots of saves. I would deem that poor defending.

    If you were going into the final again and had a choice of clarke or cluxton. Hands down you would pick Cluxton


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    kilns wrote: »
    You explained because Mayo played more games against inferior opposition to who Dublin faced. Again if they went man to man how come their opponents scored lots of goals and forced Clarke into lots of saves. I would deem that poor defending.

    If you were going into the final again and had a choice of clarke or cluxton. Hands down you would pick Cluxton

    Why do you feel the need to reword my explanation?

    If i was going into the final again id choose clarke tbh, because he had a better game. Mayo would probably have lost by a hatful had we kicked away as much as cluxton did in that first half.

    Anyway, back to the topic


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    kilns wrote: »
    You explained because Mayo played more games against inferior opposition to who Dublin faced. Again if they went man to man how come their opponents scored lots of goals and forced Clarke into lots of saves. I would deem that poor defending.

    If you were going into the final again and had a choice of clarke or cluxton. Hands down you would pick Cluxton

    Why do you feel the need to reword my explanation?

    If i was going into the final again id choose clarke tbh, because he had a better game. Mayo would probably have lost by a hatful had we kicked away as much as cluxton did in that first half.

    Anyway, back to the topic
    Fact is Cluxton would not have kicked that ball over the sideline he would have found a Dublin player. Its called clutch

    By the way. Going into the final what Dublin player would you pick ahead of Mayo player if you could?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    kilns wrote: »
    Fact is Cluxton would not have kicked that ball over the sideline he would have found a Dublin player. Its called clutch

    By the way. Going into the final what Dublin player would you pick ahead of Mayo player if you could?



    Video shows three Mayo players making intelligent runs to the left and in front of Clarke but he chose to fire the ball towards the sideline where there were two Dublin players.

    The Greg Norman of goalkeeping :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    kilns wrote: »
    Fact is Cluxton would not have kicked that ball over the sideline he would have found a Dublin player. Its called clutch

    By the way. Going into the final what Dublin player would you pick ahead of Mayo player if you could?

    But surely all the kickouts in the first half were equally as 'clutch'? I dont really rate that kind of after the fact critiquing to be honest with you. Like if mayo rattle two goals off those kicks in the first, do they now become clutch kicks?

    If you look at the thing objectively you will see that there was a common thread on the day - the wind into the davin end. It held up cluxtons kickouts and gave rock trouble in the first half, and it got under clarkes kickout and gave o'connor similar issues to rock in the second half.

    Re the dublin players mccarthy, fenton, kilkenny, connolly mannion.
    Not realy the place for this discussion though.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Jaden


    Unpopular Opinion?

    The biggest issue with funding in the GAA, is that the organisation itself can't trust the vast majority of requesters not to piss anything they get away. Financial mismanagement is endemic to the point where it is considered the norm. This is one of, if not the primary hindrance to development of our national games.


  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭TrueGael


    Jaden wrote: »
    Unpopular Opinion?

    The biggest issue with funding in the GAA, is that the organisation itself can't trust the vast majority of requesters not to piss anything they get away. Financial mismanagement is endemic to the point where it is considered the norm. This is one of, if not the primary hindrance to development of our national games.

    You're right, should just give Dublin 99% of the funding and create a Globetrotters type Juggernaut team winning the next 50 AI's , can't trust those thick culchies


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Mehapoy wrote: »
    Gaelic football is a made up bastardised version of soccer and rugby, made up only to entice the rural soccer and rugby teams into gaelic games...was a pity it was ever invented as we may have had decent soccer and rugby teams...hurling is an actual games with solid roots in the country


    I agree that football is a made up game to differentiate itself from soccer and rugby.

    One of the oldest clubs in the country is Laune Rangers in Killorglin Co. Kerry.

    Football was brought to Killorglin by two Dublin school teachers.
    The best athletes in the town at the time played rugby but converted to football.

    It does not bother me if Gaelic games have lessened our ability to compete internationally at other sports, just because a sport is local does not mean it is a lesser sport.

    Rugby, soccer and cricket are popular internationally because the British were the most influential nation on earth at the time they were becoming codeified


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭ArielAtom


    kilns wrote: »
    Ha ha you are hiliarous. Again if Mayo man for man in defence were so good how come Clarke got so much action?
    An All star should be considered over a whole season and you highlight one half of football for James McCarthy but neglect to mention the rest of his season and the fact he was the best player on the pitch in the second half.

    I just explained the first part.
    Re mccarthy, he had a great second half alright, but he did so from wing back... Again, how can he get an all star in midfield, going off your above logic? Similarly you are finding fault with the mayo defenders, yet barrett was the best player on the pitch in the final, in the same way you are arguing in favour of mccarthy. You are contradicting yourself completely man.

    I'l be the one to get back to the topic

    I dont think cluxton had all that good a year this year and that clarke was actually well ahead of him

    As someone who gets it wrong occasionally, where did Barrett play, was it corner back or centre half back? I can't remember


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Jaden


    TrueGael wrote: »
    You're right, should just give Dublin 99% of the funding and create a Globetrotters type Juggernaut team winning the next 50 AI's , can't trust those thick culchies

    No mention made of location or level of the endemic issue, yet you have made it a Dublin Vs Culchie thing (your words).

    100% Troll with a chip on his shoulder confirmed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭cms88


    I agree that football is a made up game to differentiate itself from soccer and rugby.

    One of the oldest clubs in the country is Laune Rangers in Killorglin Co. Kerry.

    Football was brought to Killorglin by two Dublin school teachers.
    The best athletes in the town at the time played rugby but converted to football.

    It does not bother me if Gaelic games have lessened our ability to compete internationally at other sports, just because a sport is local does not mean it is a lesser sport.

    Rugby, soccer and cricket are popular internationally because the British were the most influential nation on earth at the time they were becoming codeified

    Surely every sport is ''made up'' no? Then again most hurling fans probably think hurling just appeared


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,238 ✭✭✭✭Diabhal Beag


    The sideline cut over the bar should still be worth two points. It's a fantastic skill and I believe we'd see less wides from a sideline if it was given more value. There's no better point than a sideline over the bar.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,070 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    cms88 wrote: »
    Surely every sport is ''made up'' no? Then again most hurling fans probably think hurling just appeared

    That is of course true, but in relation to football I have heard that the game was "invented" as a Irish football game.

    What infulence "caid" had on it's early rules and playing style I don't know, and I'd love to find some sources about that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    I agree that football is a made up game to differentiate itself from soccer and rugby.


    Yes, but it is not you see.

    Codified rugby and the wendyball only date to the 1870s. Didn't exist here outside of Brit garrisons until 1880s, after the GAA was formed. Gaelic football is based on much older game, cáid.

    That game was strong in Kerry, north county Dublin, Meath ...... didn't lick it off the stones!

    There are lots of sources about the origin of the game. Only ones who claim it to be bastardization of wendyball are bitter oul FAI heads who cant cope with failure :-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,267 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Why do you feel the need to reword my explanation?

    If i was going into the final again id choose clarke tbh, because he had a better game. Mayo would probably have lost by a hatful had we kicked away as much as cluxton did in that first half.

    Anyway, back to the topic

    This shows how little you understand how the All-Ireland was actually won.

    Cluxton's kick-out success over the whole game was higher than Clarke's. Throughout the game, Clarke handed over possession to Dublin, making sure that Mayo could never get a run on them.

    When it came to the crucial kick-out in injury time, Clarke choked and kicked it over the sideline when there were five Mayo men free with one Dublin marker between them. Cluxton was coolness personified when Dublin played keepball.

    The fact that my unpopular opinion that Clarke will always choke has generated such a response only proves that it hits a nerve and is therefore more true than you think.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,393 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    OK lads let's not rehash this for the millionth time in the millionth thread. It's been done to death.
    This can be an interesting thread without it descending into another argument about this year's All-Ireland final.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    But its great crack!

    OK, point taken. I have never rubbed anyone's defeat in their face. I hope!


  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭TrueGael


    Jaden wrote: »
    No mention made of location or level of the endemic issue, yet you have made it a Dublin Vs Culchie thing (your words).

    100% Troll with a chip on his shoulder confirmed.

    Own up to your opinion you implied the thicko muck savages from the country wouldn't know what to do with the money, don't hide from what you were trying to say we thickos understand loud and clear


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    TrueGael wrote: »
    Own up to your opinion you implied the thicko muck savages from the country wouldn't know what to do with the money, don't hide from what you were trying to say we thickos understand loud and clear

    Or maybe he was thinking about reports like those commissioned by the Leinster Council in the article below.

    https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/revealed-damning-report-exposes-glaring-inadequacies-in-gaa-spending-and-player-development-34844507.html

    It doesn't exactly paint the financial governance of certain counties in a good light, when they got their hands on serious amounts of dosh.

    But if that massive chip on your shoulder makes you want to turn this into something about thicko muck savages, knock yourself out.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    Cork GAA supporters secretly like football. The game is suppressed there because two counties that they have a significant rivalry with, Kerry and The Capital win a lot of titles.

    On top of that Kerry and Dublin are not successful in hurling. So my unpopular opinion is that in part, Cork people suppress football and discount it as a game because they hate being beaten by Kerry and the odd time when they play Dublin. When beaten they say sure it's all about the hurling anyway, very little mention if that in 2010 when they won the AI.
    They are still good Hurlers all the same, but they've had great footballers and football teams fed from a great tradition of football that is sadly dying.


  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭independent11


    Stop providing support to weaker hurling counties, financial or otherwise. They’ve been weak for 100+ years and will be in 100 years time as well.

    All Ireland hurling should be a Super 8 of the elite hurling counties only. Play all games in Croke Park. County hurlers should no longer play for clubs as too much conflict. Let the club championships go ahead during the summer into the All Ireland club championship and play that final as a curtain raiser to the PGA* World Series Senior Hurling Final.

    * Professional Gaelic Association


  • Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭pmurphy00


    1. Too many scores from frees greatly reduce both hurling and football as a spectacle. particularly hurling as they can be scored from so far out.

    2. they'll need a shot clock like basketball(maybe 2 mins) otherwise football is just a boring hand passing game played in a big field with 15 runners.

    3. too much emphasis is on winning in GAA.
    The kerry v mayo semi final was a very poor spectacle to drive 200 odd miles to, even allowing for a kery defeat. Eventually as the spectacle diminishes it'll effect attendances and even interest.

    4. allowing the game to flow.
    the game has rules, the ref should apply them to the best of his ability.
    if the rules are wrong congress should change them.

    5. the entire rte panel should be ovehauled


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Full house at league final last year, 54,000 this year..... hardly a sign of diminishing attendances!


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,252 ✭✭✭✭gammygils


    There should be a fairer system for All-Ireland ticket allocation.
    They should be made available to those who support their County all season long & not to the "Croke Park only" brigade
    And most definitely not to neutrals who just want a day out!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    gammygils wrote: »
    There should be a fairer system for All-Ireland ticket allocation.
    They should be made available to those who support their County all season long & not to the "Croke Park only" brigade
    And most definitely not to neutrals who just want a day out!


    https://www.seasontickets.ie/

    THEY ARE!


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