Unable to maintain heat in home

km991148

Hi,

Currently renting a studio approx 30sq meters. Place is fine, if not bloody expensive (but my choice for location etc). But one issue I am facing now winter is here is that I cannot maintain a heat. There is a fixed 2kw electric heater, but it is not quite adequate enough for the size of the room. Additionally it is fitted right under a large bay single pane glass window - hence the problem - all the heat is instantly escaping through the windows.

Before I engage with the landlord, what can I reasonably expect?

Ideally I am sure a proper double glazed window would fix the issues (other units by same landlord got this) but I doubt I can force this under my rights?

I should at least get a better heater, but it will mean burning more money, quicker, on electricity - for the heat to instantly escape.

I am already spending a small fortune on the rent, but I won't allow my electricity to jump from ~50 per month to ?150 per month just the keep the place barely warm (not even close to comfortable!)

Useful replies on how I can improve this situation only please. I know I made the choice in the rental and seen the single pane glass in the summer. I also know I could move out too etc.

Jb1989

Heavy curtain might stop the heat going through

km991148

I guess that could work, currently only crappy basic roller blinds - but right now even the floor is cold - I mean freezing (and I am not over sensitive for cold!)

Kind on annoying tho - as I guess it would be minimum of 200 euro

elperello

You could get a 2kw oil filled radiator and place it where you want the heat ie. near your chair.
Also a good rug on the floor might help.

An advantage of these plus the curtains is that they will be your property to take with you when you move.

mel123

km991148 wrote: »

I guess that could work, currently only crappy basic roller blinds - but right now even the floor is cold - I mean freezing (and I am not over sensitive for cold!)

Kind on annoying tho - as I guess it would be minimum of 200 euro

€200 for a curtain pole and heavy duty curtains? Certainly not. If you are in Dublin try the likes of Arnotts bargain basement for both, and you would get an even cheaper curtain pole in Ikea if you really wanted to.

coffeyt

You can also purchase a product called window insulation kit, I got it before for a house I was in with single pane Windows. It's basically a plastic sheet you tape over the window and use a hair dryer to to heat the plastic to tighten it.
It can bit a bit fiddly to fit but will stop some of your heat loss and its very cheap to purchase.

km991148

mel123 wrote: »

€200 for a curtain pole and heavy duty curtains? Certainly not. If you are in Dublin try the likes of Arnotts bargain basement for both, and you would get an even cheaper curtain pole in Ikea if you really wanted to.

Problem is - its a bay window - and quite big - prob at least 90" drop X 3 poles plus curtains. I mean - even at 200euro I would save money.

I also got rid of a lot of my tools - so would need to buy a drill etc. Plus get permission form the landlord.

Finally - the damn existing heater is right under the first window, making it awkward to get a curtain to hang sufficiently to block the heat escaping, but also let the heat from the heater radiate into the room/

km991148

coffeyt wrote: »

You can also purchase a product called window insulation kit, I got it before for a house I was in with single pane Windows. It's basically a plastic sheet you tape over the window and use a hair dryer to to heat the plastic to tighten it.
It can bit a bit fiddly to fit but will stop some of your heat loss and its very cheap to purchase.

I covered the windows in stuff like this for privacy - very little thermal insulation. The real issue is tho all the gabs around the window letting the draughts in.

km991148

The real question is - dont I have any rights with regards to having a home that can be sufficiently heated? I mean - given the windows and existing heater, on some days I can barely get the room to the stage where I can stop seeing my breath - and that is with hairdryer being used to get some warmth into the room (along with existing electric 2kw heater) - and at a cost of 5 euro per night on heat alone!

coffeyt

km991148 wrote: »

I covered the windows in stuff like this for privacy - very little thermal insulation. The real issue is tho all the gabs around the window letting the drafts in.

Do you mean the window isn't sealed properly as in gaps between the window and wall? Would be worth resealing if that's the case.
Also the product I mean is clear so would not provide any privacy, Google window insulation kit and see, should be available on amazon.

km991148

coffeyt wrote: »

Do you mean the window isn't sealed properly as in gaps between the window and wall? Would be worth revealing if that's the case.

not between the glass and wall, but the windows are surrounded in period wood work, and its gappy - I also think the windows have been designed with some channels build in that allows the condensation to run off as the outside sills are often wet.

I looked up your suggestion there - it seems a different product from what I used and might be a better fit - at least to stop the draughts.

Danbo!

Is it an older building? If so, the landlord may not be allowed to replace it with a double glazed unit but should be able to modify it to get properly sealed, or at least help with providing curtains.

Believe it or not, the most effective place for a radiator is in fact under a window. I don’t understand why, but it’s recommended.

coffeyt

I would definitely mention to landlord if that's the case with the surrounding wall, sounds like there isn't much you can do to rectify it.

km991148

Danbo! wrote: »

Is it an older building? If so, the landlord may not be allowed to replace it with a double glazed unit but should be able to modify it to get properly sealed, or at least help with providing curtains.

Believe it or not, the most effective place for a radiator is in fact under a window. I don’t understand why, but it’s recommended.

When I bought a place before I read a lot on radiator placement - for every person that said yest to under the window others said no - I think a lot depends on local factors - where the doors are, size of windows, size of heat source etc - a lot of the time people say under the window as its a "Wasted wall" anyway - i.e. for furniture - but this is a side topic - right now - I am cold!!

Danbo!

km991148 wrote: »

When I bought a place before I read a lot on radiator placement - for every person that said yest to under the window others said no - I think a lot depends on local factors - where the doors are, size of windows, size of heat source etc - a lot of the time people say under the window as its a "Wasted wall" anyway - i.e. for furniture - but this is a side topic - right now - I am cold!!

haha of course. The argument has 2 stances - the window takes up part of the wall, therefore is somewhat wasted, so putting the radiator there leaves other walls free. The other argument is around heat flow and how the radiator counteracts the cold surface of the window and generates more airflow around the room - thats the bit I don't fully understand but anyway.

The only thing is that if it is a protected structure, replacing or maintaining sash windows isn't cheap at all so you may have a battle with the landlord. Have you a thermometer? Can you show that even with the heater on its still too cold? You should reasonably be able to keep the room at 18-20C. Depends on the landlord of course but I'd keep pushing.

Gumbo

Danbo! wrote: »

The only thing is that if it is a protected structure, replacing or maintaining sash windows isn't cheap at all so you may have a battle with the landlord. Have you a thermometer? Can you show that even with the heater on its still too cold? You should reasonably be able to keep the room at 18-20C. Depends on the landlord of course but I'd keep pushing.

The bolded part is the key here. If this building is on the RPS then the landlord cannot touch the windows, or indeed maybe the fittings and fixtures inside the windows.

km991148

Its an old building alright, but he owns 4 in the same street and has put double glazing in the others (but not bay windows). However other houses (different owners) have double glazing.

I think it was down to money saving. I wouldn't mind too much about spending some money myself but between the time the properties were advertised and me letting them (a difference on 5 months - as the renovations never completed) the price went up 200 euro pcm!

So it sticks in my throat* a bit to have to spend more to be comfortable.


(*I know there is no legal basis for higher rents being annoying to me.. caveat emptor etc)

Gumbo

km991148 wrote: »

Its an old building alright, but he owns 4 in the same street and has put double glazing in the others (but not bay windows). However other houses (different owners) have double glazing.

I think it was down to money saving. I wouldn't mind too much about spending some money myself but between the time the properties were advertised and me letting them (a difference on 5 months - as the renovations never completed) the price went up 200 euro pcm!

So it sticks in my throat* a bit to have to spend more to be comfortable.


(*I know there is no legal basis for higher rents being annoying to me.. caveat emptor etc)

Abuilding may be protected, and the immediate building next door may not.
The first thing to do is search for your address on the Record of Protected Structures.

km991148

Danbo! wrote: »

Have you a thermometer? Can you show that even with the heater on its still too cold? You should reasonably be able to keep the room at 18-20C. Depends on the landlord of course but I'd keep pushing.

Ye I have one in work, taking it home tonight to get some number - try and work out if I am being ridiculous, or if it really is cold as fu(k..

It doesnt help the building is north facing, so not even any sunlight int he day adding a touch of heat.

Havent engaged the landlords agent yet - trying to workout my options first.

km991148

kceire wrote: »

Abuilding may be protected, and the immediate building next door may not.
The first thing to do is search for your address on the Record of Protected Structures.

Thanks for that - its not on the register - so that means the windows could have been replaced, but weren't?

Sorry - I dont know Irelands laws on planning etc

Jim 77

Reminds me of staying in bedsits in old Georgian and Victorian houses. Usually dressed like an artic explorer and kept warm with lots of porridge and tea. Heaters were often power hungry but inefficient bar heaters.

I'd echo a lot of the suggestions here:
- Use heavy curtains but you've got to be careful if you have an electric heater at the window as normally one cannot cover or impede airflow around an electric heater. You could consider placing the curtain inside the window reveal with the curtain dropping to the window sill. This would also ensure no hot air goes up behind the curtain.

-Floor mats are great and have the added benefit of providing sound insulation.

-Seal all air gaps in the window frame bar the condensation drains

km991148

Jim 77 wrote: »

Reminds me of staying in bedsits in old Georgian and Victorian houses. Usually dressed like an artic explorer and kept warm with lots of porridge and tea. Heaters were often power hungry but inefficient bar heaters.

This is it exactly - except the inside was fitted out with new units, appliances etc and seemed well - I thought in the winter it may be a bit chilly alright - but not this bad!

Plus as it is 2017 I am pay a fu(kin fortune for the privilege.

Alf Veedersane

is it draughty?

As has been said, heavy curtains will help.

I would also check for draughts under the window board and around the frame. You can use something like a candle to slowly trace around to see if there's any flickering that may be caused by a draught

km991148

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

is it draughty?

As has been said, heavy curtains will help.

I would also check for draughts under the window board and around the frame. You can use something like a candle to slowly trace around to see if there's any flickering that may be caused by a draught

Its draughty as hell, plus the current heater is not strong enough to build up heat. I can just about get it up to heat with the use of a hair dryer and some cooker rings on, but it doesn't last long!

I will speak with the landlord, but wanted to find out what options (if any) I had.

Gumbo

km991148 wrote: »

Thanks for that - its not on the register - so that means the windows could have been replaced, but weren't?

Sorry - I dont know Irelands laws on planning etc

If its not on the register, then in theory, the landlord should be able to change the windows.

First port of call is to contact them and express your concerns.

Mrs OBumble

Portable oil-filled radiators are far better heaters too (and less fire risk than bar heaters).

I'm surprised that your power bill is so low (50 per month) - or do you have gas for cooking and water heating?

miamee

OP you might find the attached document useful from Threshold. It is the improved guide to minimum standards for landlords 2017 :

From 1st July 2017 the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2017 replaces the previous minimum standards for rental accommodation.

The new measures include:
[...]
• All habitable rooms, and any bathroom shall contain a permanently fixed heat emitter, heat distribution system, or heat producing appliance, capable of providing effective heating. Where required there will be adequate facilities for the safe and effective removal of fumes. The heating will be controlled by the tenant.
[...]
How soon must the landlord carry out repairs?
Emergency:
Should be carried out immediately as there is a danger to human life. Examples of emergency repairs are: faulty electricity supply or wiring, flooding in the property due to faulty plumbing, tiles falling off the roof.
Suggested timeframe for the carrying out of emergency repairs: Emergency repairs should be dealt with immediately.

Urgent:
These are repairs that need to be carried out quickly to allow the tenant to enjoy their tenancy and to avoid damage to the house. Examples of urgent repairs are: broken fridge, cooker or shower; heating system not working (particularly in winter), build-up of mould.
Suggested timeframe for urgent repairs: 3-5 days.

Routine:
These are medium priority repairs, which do not have significant effect on the day to day enjoyment of the tenancy by the tenant. Examples of routine repairs are: condensation due to insufficient ventilation, furniture needs to be repaired or replaced.
Suggested timeframe for routine repairs: 14 days.

From Threshold here.

The heater needs to provide effective heating, which it doesn't and it is classed as an urgent repair particularly in winter (i.e. now) so should be fixed within 3-5 days. That is only a Threshold guideline, not a hard and fast rule but something to work off when speaking with the landlord. If the room never heats up there is the potential for damp and mould also.

MSVforever

Get something like this. It will keep your studio nice and toasty:

http://shop.calorgas.ie/bartolini-black-pullover-i-portable-gas-heater.html

caviardreams

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Portable oil-filled radiators are far better heaters too (and less fire risk than bar heaters).

I'm surprised that your power bill is so low (50 per month) - or do you have gas for cooking and water heating?

I was going to say that - I think expecting an electricity bill of €50 per month during winter when electricity is also your heat source is very unrealistic. Perhaps it is a case that if the heater was on all/most of the time the temperature would be habitable, in which case technically the landlord could argue an adequate source of heating is provided (it's just the tenant won't use it enough). Just playing devil's advocate here, and not suggesting this is the case!

the_pen_turner

MSVforever wrote: »

Get something like this. It will keep your studio nice and toasty:

http://shop.calorgas.ie/bartolini-black-pullover-i-portable-gas-heater.html

These are terrible. They cause fierce dampness. And eat gas for sport.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

Try to eliminate as many draughts as possible, but you must keep some ventilation.

You will perceive coldness more in a room at the same temperature if there are draughts. So e.g. 15deg with no draughts will feel ok. 15deg with draughts will feel colder, despite the air temperature being the same.

Ask the LL to draughtstrip around doors and windows. Even cover your keyhole on the inside if you can. If you have a suspended wooden floor downstairs, floorboards can be draughtstripped with lengths of a proprietary product - can't think of the name - you squeeze it into the gaps between boards. All of this is cheap.

The_Conductor

km991148 wrote: »

The real question is - dont I have any rights with regards to having a home that can be sufficiently heated? I mean - given the windows and existing heater, on some days I can barely get the room to the stage where I can stop seeing my breath - and that is with hairdryer being used to get some warmth into the room (along with existing electric 2kw heater) - and at a cost of 5 euro per night on heat alone!

You did have the right to a BER certificate when renting the property- which will normally give a reasonable indication of the thermal efficiency (among other factors) of a property.

You are not entitled to double glazed windows- and indeed, the landlord may be specifically prohibited from putting double glazed windows into the alcove (my brother is in this situation).

If the landlord does put in double glazing- he is not entitled to claim any of the costs- as it is viewed by Revenue as an 'improvement' (and no improvements to a property are tax deductible).

The very best solution- would be the suggestion (above) to get good thermal curtains- they're spectacularly good at retaining heat in a property. You could talk to the landlord about this- and see if you could come to a conclusion- good thermal curtains given the size and dimensions of the bay window that you've given- might easily be 300-400 Euro (the person who thinks they can get them for 200- good luck with that..........)

chicorytip

km991148 wrote:

Its an old building alright, but he owns 4 in the same street and has put double glazing in the others (but not bay windows). However other houses (different owners) have double glazing.

Many older houses in Ireland were constructed using solid block which retain far less heat than the more modern cavity type. This could be relevant in your case but, yes, you certainly need a new window.

km991148

Thanks for the suggestions - I wasn't expecting my summer electricity bill of 50 per month, but going at the current rate - heating on all night I will be closer or over 200 per month and the warmest I can maintain is around 16 deg (and that is using a hairdryer + bathroom fan heater to get it there!)

Being shafted for expensive rent I can handle - but not getting any comfort at all is takin the p!ss!

The_Conductor

km991148 wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestions - I wasn't expecting my summer electricity bill of 50 per month, but going at the current rate - heating on all night I will be closer or over 200 per month and the warmest I can maintain is around 16 deg (and that is using a hairdryer + bathroom fan heater to get it there!)

Being shafted for expensive rent I can handle - but not getting any comfort at all is takin the p!ss!

Did you get a BER certificate when you rented the property?
It normally includes a list of suggestions relevant to a particular property- which you use as a shopping list for making it more energy efficient.

km991148

The_Conductor wrote: »

Did you get a BER certificate when you rented the property?
It normally includes a list of suggestions relevant to a particular property- which you use as a shopping list for making it more energy efficient.

The place was barely renovated and I barely looked at it when I went to see it (I know.. my fu(k up..)!

exaisle

Danbo! wrote: »

<snip>

Believe it or not, the most effective place for a radiator is in fact under a window. I don’t understand why, but it’s recommended.

I've always wondered about that...seems to me that the place to put it would be as far away from the lossy area, ie the window, as possible...but I'd like to hear the views of people who really know....possibly engineers...

CIARAN_BOYLE

not an engineer bit if you place your radiator away from the heat loser you will end up with an uneven amount of heat. you will be warm near the radiator and cold near the window. if you put the rad next to the window the overall heat will be more even.

the_syco

Put a plastic sheeting at the window.

Consider something like this; https://purchase.ie/product/all-products/insulating-window-film

NicsM

I lived in a very draughty, single glazed Georgian building for a few years and they are really hard to heat but some things did help.

If the landlord can't sort things for you, get an oil filled radiator from Argos – I picked up one for less than €100. Combined with either a wifi plug or a plug on a timer, you can switch it on before you get home to add to the heat from your existing radiator. As others have said, heavy curtains or insulation for the windows will help somewhat but if they're as tall as mine were, it's really hard to get the top of the window covered with the insulation material.

I bought a soft movable draught excluder in TK Maxx to add to the existing one on the door and it made a huge (if surprising) improvement. Additionally, if you have a fireplace in your apartment and it's not in use, check if there's an internal cover you can close in the fireplace – older buildings usually have those and closing it over stops draughts coming down the chimney. Unfortunately one of the downsides of older buildings is much higher bills in winter, ours were often triple the cost of summer.

An electric blanket for bed (super cheap to run) and a small heater fan beside the bed which you can switch on just before you go asleep/wake up will take the worst of the chill out of the air. Aside from that, warm jumpers, good socks and slippers are your best bets!

the_syco

NicsM wrote: »

Additionally, if you have a fireplace in your apartment and it's not in use, check if there's an internal cover you can close in the fireplace – older buildings usually have those and closing it over stops draughts coming down the chimney.

If you have a chimney, but not the above, look for a chimney balloon.

geecee

Another (Very!) inelegant thing you could do is pick up a 13.5 tog Super King Duvet and use it to completely block off the bay window from the rest of the room...

i.e. Nail or screw it to the wall outside the bay window. Then stop using the existing heater and buy the oil heater mentioned above or:
http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/7199646.htm

Its a lot cheaper than curtains... but would look ugly as hell and block your natural daylight!

km991148

geecee wrote: »

Another (Very!) inelegant thing you could do is pick up a 13.5 tog Super King Duvet and use it to completely block off the bay window from the rest of the room...

i.e. Nail or screw it to the wall outside the bay window. Then stop using the existing heater and buy the oil heater mentioned above or:
http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/7199646.htm

Its a lot cheaper than curtains... but would look ugly as hell and block your natural daylight!

heh - well I dont really get natural light - the windows are on the street so the crappy blinds are always closed! If I could lay bricks I would block the whole thing up lol!

Are oil filled heaters more efficient? Or are they just better for holding a heat longer?

davindub

km991148 wrote: »

heh - well I dont really get natural light - the windows are on the street so the crappy blinds are always closed! If I could lay bricks I would block the whole thing up lol!

Are oil filled heaters more efficient? Or are they just better for holding a heat longer?

no bricks needed these days...couple of these with a wooden frame https://www.build4less.ie/insulation-materials/wall-insulation/xtratherm-thin-r-80mm-insulation.html

You would probably find the heat escapes through everywhere else except where the boards are though...

bertsmom

I know it's not a big fix or anything but I have a heated OVER blanket/throw and it's brilliant! I got it last winter just as a throw for when up very late over the Xmas hols watching TV or early Saturday mornings on the sofa when you might not want to turn the heating on and I have found it so useful and it's really comfortable and warm. It's also suitable to put on your bed overnight. The only thing that is important is its for over or around you NOT under you like a conventional electrical blanket. My one was advertised as about 3p sterling an hrs to use and I really don't notice it at all on my ESB bill but my oil bill was much smaller with using it. Mine is a faux fur type and was around sixty euro.

jimmycrackcorm

Danbo! wrote:

Believe it or not, the most effective place for a radiator is in fact under a window. I don’t understand why, but it’s recommended.

I do understand as I once wrote software for piping layouts in buildings. The specs called for easy matching of radiators to windows. I was curious why and was told that it was efficient for heating the whole room due to the convection effect from the cold air transfer from the window.

Lumen

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I do understand as I once wrote software for piping layouts in buildings. The specs called for easy matching of radiators to windows. I was curious why and was told that it was efficient for heating the whole room due to the convection effect from the cold air transfer from the window.

Whatever about efficiency, it's good for preventing condensation.