COW Cows Own Worth

alps

Had a look through our own profile earlier today. No definitive correlation between EBI and COW but must do up a graph to see if we can see more clarity on this.

I rang to ask, but of course no one qualified in office today to answer some queries(launch today). For accuracy of this profile, I would think it very important that ICBF would use your own coops milk payment formula when applying lactation values to the cows. There is quiet a difference in the way the payment formula is made up by each processor in terms of fat, protein and volume subtraction, and would be vital when making cull decisions that the proper values are attributed. I fearvtheybwill use some kind of standard national formula.

It becomes more important because the value is not only made up of the value of this year's milk, but the value of all possible future lactations, so for instance an inaccuracy of 5percent on one lactation could be huge over six to ten lacerations.

I also see that older cows, while they may still be delivering quiet well, have a low future lactation figure, which is obvious, however, these are the ladies that we strive to keep replacements from so we are going to be scratching the head a little on this. With us these older cows are still delivering more than a heifer that would replace them, and it is difficult to come to terms with getting rid of them.

This could be a useful tool of the figures and assumptions used are very accurate and specific to your farm, the only place where these figures will have any relevance.

charolais0153

Theres going to be a big input from beef farmers from this icbf venture

Timmaay

What does it mean if the COW is negative ha? The cow will cost more to keep than she will give in milk ha?

whelan2

Only for spring calving herds....

mf240

Just a warning. We put in cctv in the dairy and caught two low ebi cows taking milk out of the tank.

blue5000

charolais0153 wrote: »

Theres going to be a big input from beef farmers from this icbf venture

I think this might be what you're talking about https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/icbf-beef-bull-ratings-are-flawed-and-breeders-demand-answers-36276636.html

Highest ebi bull has only carcase weights from 4 calves?

White Clover

mf240 wrote: »

Just a warning. We put in cctv in the dairy and caught two low ebi cows taking milk out of the tank.

I'm assuming that you got rid of them pronto and replaced them with high ebi cows that you bought over the phone without going to see them ??

charolais0153

blue5000 wrote: »

I think this might be what you're talking about https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/icbf-beef-bull-ratings-are-flawed-and-breeders-demand-answers-36276636.html

Highest ebi bull has only carcase weights from 4 calves?

That and that icbf prioritise dairy farmers once again

whelan2

charolais0153 wrote: »

That and that icbf prioritise dairy farmers once again

I pay each year herdplus fee, icbf tag levy, icbf levy of 50 cent on each ai serve done through the handheld device- which is them all- 87c icbf levy on milk recording. I assume there's alot of other dairy farmers paying for the same. How do beef farmers contribute to icbf? I assume dairy farmers get more information as they put more information in and pay more towards icbf.

Never wrestle with pigs

whelan2 wrote: »

I pay each year herdplus fee, icbf tag levy, icbf levy of 50 cent on each ai serve done through the handheld device- which is them all- 87c icbf levy on milk recording. I assume there's alot of other dairy farmers paying for the same. How do beef farmers contribute to icbf? I assume dairy farmers get more information as they put more information in and pay more towards icbf.

Same except for milk recordings, I think they are taking a cut of the genomics scheme too.

charolais0153

whelan2 wrote: »

I pay each year herdplus fee, icbf tag levy, icbf levy of 50 cent on each ai serve done through the handheld device- which is them all- 87c icbf levy on milk recording. I assume there's alot of other dairy farmers paying for the same. How do beef farmers contribute to icbf? I assume dairy farmers get more information as they put more information in and pay more towards icbf.

If i give them 87c per head so ,will they do it for me?

whelan2

charolais0153 wrote: »

If i give them 87c per head so ,will they do it for me?

I assume they know their income is coming from the volume in the,dairy sector. Have you ever complained to them? I didn't know of the levy on milk recording or ai serves until I was told last year

kowtow

Are they calculating an actual figure or a notional figure to rank the herd on? If it's an actual figure I wonder what discount rate they are using to value the future cashflows.

I can't get the figure on herd-plus because more than 10% of my herd were born the wrong side of the blanket - I've explained to icbf that they are victims of their own hyper-fertility but it doesn't get me anywhere.

alps

kowtow wrote: »

Are they calculating an actual figure or a notional figure to rank the herd on? If it's an actual figure I wonder what discount rate they are using to value the future cashflows.

I can't get the figure on herd-plus because more than 10% of my herd were born the wrong side of the blanket - I've explained to icbf that they are victims of their own hyper-fertility but it doesn't get me anywhere.

I rang this morning, but no one I spoke to knew the answers..they are to ring back..

You'll introduce a whole new concept with having to discount the value of future cashflows....go on,,dare you to ring with that one...

GiantPencil

blue5000 wrote: »

charolais0153 wrote: »

Theres going to be a big input from beef farmers from this icbf venture

I think this might be what you're talking about https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/icbf-beef-bull-ratings-are-flawed-and-breeders-demand-answers-36276636.html

Highest ebi bull has only carcase weights from 4 calves?

Wouldn't believe all you read in that article, that bulls figures are high beacause data has been imported from France....look that bull up on the french system and you'll see his doing the business over there. the # in the prev eval tab in icbf means that data was imported. That article was just ICBF bashing without doing any investigation as to why the numbers are the way they are

alps

Graph of EBI v COW on our herd....consistent to be fair with about 4 outliers...

yewtree

alps wrote: »

Graph of EBI v COW on our herd....consistent to be fair with about 4 outliers...

Thats a really nice piece of work.
Had a look for my herd, its picking out the rubbish here anyway.
I think it will be a useful tool for culling anyway.

kowtow

alps wrote: »

Graph of EBI v COW on our herd....consistent to be fair with about 4 outliers...

Now if you were to add another set of dots in a different colour for milk solids across the lactation.....

alps

kowtow wrote: »

Now if you were to add another set of dots in a different colour for milk solids across the lactation.....

My mind is only 2 dimensional.....what axis would i run the milk solids on?..and scale? Even that question is mixed up...

Should you go milk solids v COW

kowtow

alps wrote: »

My mind is only 2 dimensional.....what axis would i run the milk solids on?..and scale? Even that question is mixed up...

Should you go milk solids v COW

You could put a second horizontal scale on it for milk solids but you'd have to find a way of normalising the figure a bit - so that your median or average milk solids was in the same spot as the median or mean COW if you see what I mean (no pun intended) and the high and low of the range occupy about the same space as the high and low of the COW. Not sure if that makes sense!

Edit: another way of looking at it is to put the EBI and the COW on the same scale (or rather axis) if you can re-scale them because you have already established that they seem to be quite linear. Then see how the both of them compare to what the girls are producing in the present lactation.

It would be easier if they were in a spreadsheet, then you'd just get a figure for the correlation.

Timmaay

You can usually export icbf data in excel or csv format, and work away to your hearts content then.