Recommend a tractor please

B Rabbit

Hi,

As stated above, what tractor would you recommend if a lad were to buy one.

Thinking of going for a new Tumosan for around 35k but that maybe daft when it'll be used very little (200 hours per year maybe!)

Ideally looking for something around the 85-100 hp mark , 4 wheel drive. Neat enough to be able to get around the yard easily.

Usual duties would be some topping, transport box work, drawing turf, pulling a 14 foot stock trailer (decks with sheep aboard) No baling or anything too strenuous.

Would it be better go with a better brand that has a few years on it? MF, John deere or the likes.

Not well up on tractors so advice appreciated. Reliability would be a key factor.

MF4370

That Tumosan will be worth about 5k less the second you drive it out the dealers yard. Any tractor would do you. Pick up a good Massey/New Holland/Deere for around 20k.

Snowfire

How bout a Massey 4370...!😂

B Rabbit

Yes, that's why I'm thinking go with an established make second hand.
4370 maybe bit big? I was thinking 4355 , what would the equivalent JD or New Holland be? 4 cyclinder.

Would also like a 40k box in it.

lakill Farm

B Rabbit wrote: »

Yes, that's why I'm thinking go with an established make second hand.
4370 maybe bit big? I was thinking 4355 , what would the equivalent JD or New Holland be? 4 cyclinder.

Would also like a 40k box in it.

Key question how are you financing the purchase

Older tractors are difficult to obtain finance for except a personal /Business Loan

Where new ones you have hire purchase or leasing

charolais0153

Stay away from tumosan . loudest yokes you'll come across. Get a kubota if buying new

B Rabbit

Thanks folks, financing wouldn't be an issue.

Will look into kubota

Icelandicseige

lakill Farm wrote: »

Key question how are you financing the purchase

Older tractors are difficult to obtain finance for except a personal /Business Loan

Where new ones you have hire purchase or leasing

What are the pros and cons of buying something new on Hire purchase and What would repayments be like on something for €35,000. And what would you have paid overall when finished?..

farawaygrass

charolais0153 wrote: »

Stay away from tumosan . loudest yokes you'll come across. Get a kubota if buying new

Would have to disagree completely with you on this one. Not the quietest but definitely not the loudest imo.

charolais0153

farawaygrass wrote: »

Would have to disagree completely with you on this one. Not the quietest but definitely not the loudest imo.

For a 171 tractor . it was very loud

CloughCasey1

charolais0153 wrote: »

For a 171 tractor . it was very loud

Does someone up around ye have a Kubota?

Bass Reeves

Op for the amount of work you are doing a second hand tractor will suffice. Would not overly worry about brand but look for a good clean tractor. saw this on DD an ex council tractor in NI. Only disadvantage no shuttle.

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/98-case-4230/17066371

Usually NI tractor are advertised ex-vat so she cost you about 13K in the yard. You should be able to pick up a mid noughties zetor 6441 or 8441 without a loader for about 20K in general these would only have 3kish hours on them. Lots of New hollands imported from Ni and UK at present an 85-100HP one should be able to be get a late 90's low hour one for sub 20k. Late 90's masseys 4255/4355 trade for around the same money. Loads of options out there for sub 20K tractors a lot depends on what you want in the line of shuttle, 40K box etc.

B Rabbit

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Op for the amount of work you are doing a second hand tractor will suffice. Would not overly worry about brand but look for a good clean tractor. saw this on DD an ex council tractor in NI. Only disadvantage no shuttle.

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/98-case-4230/17066371

Usually NI tractor are advertised ex-vat so she cost you about 13K in the yard. You should be able to pick up a mid noughties zetor 6441 or 8441 without a loader for about 20K in general these would only have 3kish hours on them. Lots of New hollands imported from Ni and UK at present an 85-100HP one should be able to be get a late 90's low hour one for sub 20k. Late 90's masseys 4255/4355 trade for around the same money. Loads of options out there for sub 20K tractors a lot depends on what you want in the line of shuttle, 40K box etc.

Thank you

twin_beacon

I would not advice any new tractor of any make, as you are really not doing enough hours. A Tumosan or any of the newer makes to the Irish market won't hold their value like one of the established brands will.

For the price you have mentioned, Id consider, New Holland TL90 / Case JXU 90 (basically the same tractor), or a Massey 5445.

lakill Farm

B Rabbit wrote: »

Thanks folks, financing wouldn't be an issue.

Will look into kubota

well spend 50k on a new branded name tractor so if money isn't an object and it will hold its value a lot better

lakill Farm

Icelandicseige wrote: »

What are the pros and cons of buying something new on Hire purchase and What would repayments be like on something for €35,000. And what would you have paid overall when finished?..

maybe 40k after 5 years

HP you can claim the vat back up front (if vat registered) and you claim the price over 8 years ( capital allowances)

Leasing you don't own the tractor and you claim the lease amounts in the year they occur. so could be a few years. most common is 3 / 5 years.

So 40k tractor - H.P = €5000 Capital allowance per year (12.5%)

Leasing (3 years) (35k would be maybe 38k) €12,666 expense for lease
(5 years) (40k like above) €8,000 expense for lease
with leasing you pay a small secondary lease per annum or a final lease arrangement. normally small amount maybe €70 - 250

kowtow

lakill Farm wrote: »

maybe 40k after 5 years

HP you can claim the vat back up front (if vat registered) and you claim the price over 8 years ( capital allowances)

Leasing you don't own the tractor and you claim the lease amounts in the year they occur. so could be a few years. most common is 3 / 5 years.

So 40k tractor - H.P = €5000 Capital allowance per year (12.5%)

Leasing (3 years) (35k would be maybe 38k) €12,666 expense for lease
(5 years) (40k like above) €8,000 expense for lease
with leasing you pay a small secondary lease per annum or a final lease arrangement. normally small amount maybe €70 - 250

What are the comparable levels of deposits etc. ... toying with the idea of buying a comfortable tractor to cover go ten miles and back to an out-farm most days of the week... it's a choice between a spare jeep to drive 20 miles a day and buy a cheaper tractor for cash that will sit at the outfarm or buy something really comfortable and sod the extra jeep.

Have a company we could lease it through as well so looking for the most efficient option.

B Rabbit

twin_beacon wrote: »

I would not advice any new tractor of any make, as you are really not doing enough hours. A Tumosan or any of the newer makes to the Irish market won't hold their value like one of the established brands will.

For the price you have mentioned, Id consider, New Holland TL90 / Case JXU 90 (basically the same tractor), or a Massey 5445.

Thanks

lakill Farm wrote: »

well spend 50k on a new branded name tractor so if money isn't an object and it will hold its value a lot better

Would rather not, could be better spent elsewhere with the amount of work the tractor will get.

Bass Reeves

kowtow wrote: »

What are the comparable levels of deposits etc. ... toying with the idea of buying a comfortable tractor to cover go ten miles and back to an out-farm most days of the week... it's a choice between a spare jeep to drive 20 miles a day and buy a cheaper tractor for cash that will sit at the outfarm or buy something really comfortable and sod the extra jeep.

Have a company we could lease it through as well so looking for the most efficient option.

A lots depends on what type of second cheaper tractor you need. By the sound of it you require a tractor to go down the fields to do little bits such as feed cattle etc. In that case a 2WD tractor may suffice. Lots of good value in such tractors pops up now and again. Such a tractor has the added benifit when it is needed elsewhere in the farm maybe during the winter to put on a feed wagon or scraper. Having a cheap topper on the outfarm for the summer etc etc. Such a tractor would last 20-30 years.

Reggie.

kowtow wrote: »

What are the comparable levels of deposits etc. ... toying with the idea of buying a comfortable tractor to cover go ten miles and back to an out-farm most days of the week... it's a choice between a spare jeep to drive 20 miles a day and buy a cheaper tractor for cash that will sit at the outfarm or buy something really comfortable and sod the extra jeep.

Have a company we could lease it through as well so looking for the most efficient option.

A lot of machinery now do 0% finance over 3 years with 50% of cost up front. This is usually your trade in. The landini is costing me 5k over 6 years on finance. As in €7500 annual payment over 6 years and the original cost was 40k so at end of 6 years the cost is 45k. Was worth it for me for the comfort alone really and the 40k box

kowtow

Reggie. wrote: »

A lot of machinery now do 0% finance over 3 years with 50% of cost up front. This is usually your trade in. The landini is costing me 5k over 6 years on finance. As in €7500 annual payment over 6 years and the original cost was 40k so at end of 6 years the cost is 45k. Was worth it for me for the comfort alone really and the 40k box

Yup - I can see the attraction of the interest free although if it's always new machinery and you don't have anything to trade in you then have a relatively large chunk of cash tied up in a shinier machine than you might otherwise have wanted. You have to set that against the interest saving which is tax deductible in any case.

A 2wd tractor is not much use for us on either farm as our ground is steep.

I'm persuaded that it is worth going to 110-130hp rather than looking at 100hp to give the boy a little flexibility when he is out working for others in the summer. Also for a year at least it ought to be able to do the feeding on one farm or the other until the time comes when I replace the 50b with something more respectable.

Relative comfort is the big factor though - how much difference does axle suspension make?

Bass Reeves

Reggie. wrote: »

A lot of machinery now do 0% finance over 3 years with 50% of cost up front. This is usually your trade in. The landini is costing me 5k over 6 years on finance. As in €7500 annual payment over 6 years and the original cost was 40k so at end of 6 years the cost is 45k. Was worth it for me for the comfort alone really and the 40k box

There is no such thing as 0% interest. All this advertisiment means is that they will not discount you and that traded in's will have limited value. Only advantage is that usually finance by Machinery Manufacturer's is easy to get as opposed to finance from credit intitutions who may do more detailed checks.

In Reggies example above finance was at about 4%/year most machinery loans at present from intitutions is costing 6% unless you have a very good relationship with your bank manager. But you really need to sit down and calculate your different options.

lakill Farm

Every leasing /hp company are different. Can be 10% or could be 25%

kowtow wrote: »

What are the comparable levels of deposits etc. ... toying with the idea of buying a comfortable tractor to cover go ten miles and back to an out-farm most days of the week... it's a choice between a spare jeep to drive 20 miles a day and buy a cheaper tractor for cash that will sit at the outfarm or buy something really comfortable and sod the extra jeep.

Have a company we could lease it through as well so looking for the most efficient option.

lakill Farm

B Rabbit wrote: »

Thanks



Would rather not, could be better spent elsewhere with the amount of work the tractor will get.

Well I’d rather spend 50k now and in 10 years with 2000hrs your tractor will be worth 35k and have got 50k capital allowances

Than spend 35k and in 10 years have a tractor worth 10k and 35k capital allowance.

That 15k isn’t expensive then considering s392

lakill Farm

I say reggie got a good trade in for the 398.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is no such thing as 0% interest. All this advertisiment means is that they will not discount you and that traded in's will have limited value. Only advantage is that usually finance by Machinery Manufacturer's is easy to get as opposed to finance from credit intitutions who may do more detailed checks.

In Reggies example above finance was at about 4%/year most machinery loans at present from intitutions is costing 6% unless you have a very good relationship with your bank manager. But you really need to sit down and calculate your different options.

lakill Farm

I say reggie got a good trade in for the 398.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is no such thing as 0% interest. All this advertisiment means is that they will not discount you and that traded in's will have limited value. Only advantage is that usually finance by Machinery Manufacturer's is easy to get as opposed to finance from credit intitutions who may do more detailed checks.

In Reggies example above finance was at about 4%/year most machinery loans at present from intitutions is costing 6% unless you have a very good relationship with your bank manager. But you really need to sit down and calculate your different options.

Icelandicseige

lakill Farm wrote: »

maybe 40k after 5 years

HP you can claim the vat back up front (if vat registered) and you claim the price over 8 years ( capital allowances)

Leasing you don't own the tractor and you claim the lease amounts in the year they occur. so could be a few years. most common is 3 / 5 years.

So 40k tractor - H.P = €5000 Capital allowance per year (12.5%)

Leasing (3 years) (35k would be maybe 38k) €12,666 expense for lease
(5 years) (40k like above) €8,000 expense for lease
with leasing you pay a small secondary lease per annum or a final lease arrangement. normally small amount maybe €70 - 250

Thanks lakill. Very helpful. So capital allowance In dummy terms(For me obviously) is basically what you can write off against your profit.. So I could right off say 5,000 on a 40k tractor every year for 8 years of hire purchase on a tractor? Or is that wrong.
Is there only so much capital allowance one is aloud though?

PeterCasey

A zetor proxima is not bad value of a tractor for what work you have to do with it . It would last you a life time my brother bought one for yard work he is very happy with it.

Bass Reeves

lakill Farm wrote: »

I say reggie got a good trade in for the 398.

]

On and off over the last 5+ years there has been massive export valve for older tractors especially those in the 60-90hp bracket. MF's in particular have traded very well in this market. Neighbour got 10k of a trade for an MF 290 against a secondhand tractor about 3 years ago. There was exceptional chances to go from 70's and 80's older model tractors to late 90's tractors.

These older tractors were just put in containers and shipped first to eastern Europe. At present the trade is not as lively but still exists but the market is Africa and most trading is through sterling.

lakill Farm

Icelandicseige wrote: »

Thanks lakill. Very helpful. So capital allowance In dummy terms(For me obviously) is basically what you can write off against your profit.. So I could right off say 5,000 on a 40k tractor every year for 8 years of hire purchase on a tractor? Or is that wrong.
Is there only so much capital allowance one is aloud though?

Now you have it

No you can carry unused ones into the next year