Sirens

Stephen15

Why are the sirens used by gardai, ambulance and fire engines so inadequate and un fit for purpose compared to what is used on the continent? Seriously it was only last week I was on the N11 heading inbound and not one but two ambulances caught completely off guard as they only stuck on the sirens as they approached the traffic.

If it is an emergency then an emmergency vehicle should its lights and sirens on at all times not just when approaching putting sirens on at the last minute could cause an accident as it would give drivers a fright similar to a sudden horn. A siren is meant to warn drivers not frighten them. Two tone sirens are far more appropriate to the waily last minutes currently in use.

Heres a few examples of sirens being used correctly

https://youtu.be/rCVTVIPJgyw

https://youtu.be/40clQeSIH98

https://youtu.be/mAsMh6SV49M

https://youtu.be/Wwlv0QQ2THc

If used like in the above videos then it would avoid incidents like this which was somewhat similar to what I encountered

https://youtu.be/DF8lUS0DGoA

Seth Brundle

If you were paying attention on the dual carriageway then surely you would have seen it approach and moved out of its way so no siren would have been required?

punisher5112

I find some vehicles have a better two tone system then others.

Some drivers leave sire till late I believe there are times they should sound them sooner.

jimbis

Try living near one of the major junctions along the N11, Particularly the ones close to St Vincents hospital and you may think differently.

If its life and death situation you can be sure the sirens will be wailing long before they hit traffic. But in less serious situations some emergency drivers tend to keep the noise to a minimum.
As said already, the big blue flashing lights in your mirror should be more than enough.

RandomAccess

jimbis wrote: »

...
As said already, the big blue flashing lights in your mirror should be more than enough.

Many times when I've signalled and pulled over because of an Ambulance or fire truck approaching from behind the ignoramus behind me starts an overtake.

And I will have seen it approach quite a long time earlier.

RandomAccess

Went to dig up an example from my DashCam archive,

Look at this imbecile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMrzS6YjyEk

Toyotafanboi

kbannon wrote: »

If you were paying attention on the dual carriageway then surely you would have seen it approach and moved out of its way so no siren would have been required?

I'd agree. It's hard to miss the 12x12' luminous yellow box covered in pulsing blue LED's in your rear view.

Seen a few disappointing instances myself early morning on the M11/ M50 towards the city where the ambulance is viable in your rear view for a good 60 seconds or more beating through thick traffic and yet people aren't prepared to get the **** out of its way by the time it gets to them.

As soon as you see the lights, which you should be able to see if your rear view is set up correctly you should get into the left lane until it passes you.

I seen one instance around 3 months ago where I was in the inside lane and the ambulance was in the outside lane doing a fair whack more than me and the car ahead of me in the outside lane didn't see the ambulance in its rear view at all, despite it sitting on his rear bumper for a good long time, so the ambulance driver gave the sirens a blast and what did the car driver do? Stopped the car in the ****ing outside lane and the ambulance had to slow down and undertake :rolleyes:

Stephen15

jimbis wrote: »

Try living near one of the major junctions along the N11, Particularly the ones close to St Vincents hospital and you may think differently.

If its life and death situation you can be sure the sirens will be wailing long before they hit traffic. But in less serious situations some emergency drivers tend to keep the noise to a minimum.
As said already, the big blue flashing lights in your mirror should be more than enough.

Try living in London or Paris all you'll hear is sirens well into the night its part and parcel of living in a city.

Stephen15

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I'd agree. It's hard to miss the 12x12' luminous yellow box covered in pulsing blue LED's in your rear view.

Seen a few disappointing instances myself early morning on the M11/ M50 towards the city where the ambulance is viable in your rear view for a good 60 seconds or more beating through thick traffic and yet people aren't prepared to get the **** out of its way by the time it gets to them.

As soon as you see the lights, which you should be able to see if your rear view is set up correctly you should get into the left lane until it passes you.

I seen one instance around 3 months ago where I was in the inside lane and the ambulance was in the outside lane doing a fair whack more than me and the car ahead of me in the outside lane didn't see the ambulance in its rear view at all, despite it sitting on his rear bumper for a good long time, so the ambulance driver gave the sirens a blast and what did the car driver do? Stopped the car in the ****ing outside lane and the ambulance had to slow down and undertake :rolleyes:

What I forgot to mention the junction that this happened was on a bend here to be exact. I can't see around corners however I can hear. If they had really loud sirens that like the ones you hear on the continent you'd be well warned.

StereoSound

I love the sirens on the Australian police cars.... Very mad max but its been 10 years since I've been in OZ so I don't know if they have adopted newer sounding ones.

Stephen15

jimbis wrote: »

If its life and death situation you can be sure the sirens will be wailing long before they hit traffic. But in less serious situations some emergency drivers tend to keep the noise to a minimum.
As said already, the big blue flashing lights in your mirror should be more than enough.

Whats the point on using the sirens then if its not life and death. Its either an emergency or it isin't.

McCrack

Stephen15 wrote: »

Whats the point on using the sirens then if its not life and death. Its either an emergency or it isin't.

It's rarely "life or death" in the back of ambulances however most calls require prompt transfer hence lights and sirens.

Clearly there will be extremes on both ends but most calls only require prompt transfer to hospital.

Stephen15

McCrack wrote: »

It's rarely "life or death" in the back of ambulances however most calls require prompt transfer hence lights and sirens.

Clearly there will be extremes on both ends but most calls only require prompt transfer to hospital.

So it is an emergency then so therefore lights and sirens should be sounded at all times both on route to the hospital and to the case itself.

McCrack

No

return guide

Stephen15 wrote: »

What I forgot to mention the junction that this happened was on a bend here to be exact. I can't see around corners however I can hear. If they had really loud sirens that like the ones you hear on the continent you'd be well warned.

I would imagine the ambulance driver would use the bus lane in an emergency. He/she would lights to make other road users aware of the presence of the emergency vehicle and where required use the siren at junctions to give added warning.

The residents in adjoining roads are no doubt appreciative of the restrained use of the siren.

TBH the N11 is relatively straight so an ambulance on lights should be observed fairly quickly ( unmarked Garda cars less so, but these tend to travel to the emergency on lights and sirens for this reason ).

Stephen15

return guide wrote: »

I would imagine the ambulance driver would use the bus lane in an emergency. He/she would lights to make other road users aware of the presence of the emergency vehicle and where required use the siren at junctions to give added warning.

The residents in adjoining roads are no doubt appreciative of the restrained use of the siren.

TBH the N11 is relatively straight so an ambulance on lights should be observed fairly quickly ( unmarked Garda cars less so, but these tend to travel to the emergency on lights and sirens for this reason ).

I have also seen ambulances with sirens push cars into the bus lane despite there was no buses there when they could have just used the bus lane in the first place, but thats a story for another day. Say they had sirens that could heard from a mile or so away I'm no expert on these thing but that IMO would give motorists perfect time to be prepared for the approach of an emergency vehicle.

I am a resident of one of the ajoining road that you mentioned and it wouldn't annoy me that much as I said if you lived in any major European city you would have to deal with sirens constantly.

A question could be asked when should an emregency use full lights and sirens. Obivously any vehicle needs to go as fast as possible when to an RTA, an ambulance might need to go to a cardiac arrest asap, a garda car needs to go an armed robbery asap and fire engine needs to go to a huge multiple building fire asap but does an ambulance even need lights and/or sirens when going or bringing some to hospital with a simple case like a broken finger, a garda car need to go to a straightforward case like a minor burgulary asap or a fire go to the old cat stuck in tree case asap.

Tbh I think the fire brigade out of all three emergency services are best at using the sirens you can generally them coming well in advance however why they use have sirens like this anymore far more effective than the xurrent one. They do the odd time but its rare all emmergency vehicle should sound like this.

https://youtu.be/TpUyoaMVXn8

source

Emergency services try not to use bus lanes, because most of the unaware idiots on our roads hear sirens and automatically pull left. It's safer to force cars into the bus lane.

Paulzx

Stephen15 wrote: »

I have also seen ambulances with sirens push cars into the bus lane despite there was no buses there when they could have just used the bus lane in the first place, but thats a story for another day.

https://youtu.be/TpUyoaMVXn8

If an emergency vehicle goes up the inside in the bus lane it will generally leave them boxed in when they reach the red traffic lights at the next junction. The bus lane generally ends before the junction to allow traffic turn left. The emergency vehicle is now stuck behind stationary traffic at a red light with more stationary traffic in the outside lane blocking it in.

It is much easier to force the traffic to turn left into the bus lane and overtake it on the outside. When you reach the next junction you are not then boxed in.

Believe it or not there is method to making other drivers do what you need them to do to make the optimum progress safely

Stephen15

Paulzx wrote: »

If an emergency vehicle goes up the inside in the bus lane it will generally leave them boxed in when they reach the red traffic lights at the next junction. The bus lane generally ends before the junction to allow traffic turn left. The emergency vehicle is now stuck behind stationary traffic at a red light with more stationary traffic in the outside lane blocking it in.

It is much easier to force the traffic to turn left into the bus lane and overtake it on the outside. When you reach the next junction you are not then boxed in.

Believe it or not there is method to making other drivers do what you need them to do to make the optimum progress safely

Yes but anyone who knows the n11 knows that the bus lane continues until the city centre so that wouldn't be much of a worry there.

Paulzx

Stephen15 wrote: »

Yes but anyone who knows the n11 knows that the bus lane continues until the city centre so that wouldn't be much of a worry there.

The N11 is not the only road in the country

Stephen15

Paulzx wrote: »

The N11 is not the only road in the country

I do that but anyone who knows it knows it has a continous bus lane

Seth Brundle

Stephen15 wrote: »

I have also seen ambulances with sirens push cars into the bus lane despite there was no buses there when they could have just used the bus lane in the first place, but thats a story for another day. Say they had sirens that could heard from a mile or so away I'm no expert on these thing but that IMO would give motorists perfect time to be prepared for the approach of an emergency vehicle.
...
Blah blah blah

You keep going on but the problem is not with the ambulances, their lights or sirens or the ambulance drivers.
It is with drivers who are so engrossed with other things that they are oblivious until the ambulance is right on top of them.
Like you in your OP!

Del2005

Stephen15 wrote: »

Yes but anyone who knows the n11 knows that the bus lane continues until the city centre so that wouldn't be much of a worry there.

They might be turning right at the next junction so fighting across several lanes of traffic is more difficult than risking people pulling across them.

Unlike our law enforcement officers who can drive emergency vehicles without training the ambulance drivers are all trained, they know what they are doing when driving you don't.

bladespin

Stephen15 wrote:

Say they had sirens that could heard from a mile or so away I'm no expert on these thing but that IMO would give motorists perfect time to be prepared for the approach of an emergency vehicle.

Doppler effect on a moving vehicle, that would have to be one hell of a siren, I'm sure the cars ahead would appreciate it, not sure about the people behind with perforated eardrums.

Stephen15

Now this is how to properly deal with an approaching ambulance with an excellent siren.

https://youtu.be/02Ak1eIyj3M