Disillusioned

ooter

I'd appreciate any pearls of wisdom from the good people on here, basically I don't feel my last few marathon times are reflecting the training I'm doing and it's really frustrating.
First half of this year I followed the hansons advanced plan for my spring Marathon (6 days a week) and honestly worked my arse off, genuinely thought I was in pb shape (3:14) but I ended up almost 30 mins slower than that.
Ditched hansons for DCM and went back to the plan that got me my PB, the P&D 55 mile (5 days a week) plan. For the first few weeks I had a PB in mind but as the weeks went on I was changing to sub 3:20, sub 3:25 and eventually settled on 3:30, genuinely thought I was in 3:30 shape. I ran the Dublin HM in 1:40 a few weeks ago but didn't go full tilt if I'm being honest so thought 3:30 for the full was doable.
Stuck on the tail of the 3:30 pacers yesterday but by half way I knew it wasn't to be, lost interest after that if I'm being honest and came home a few mins under 4 hours.
Can't get my head around how my times can be so different having followed the same plan but it is what it is.
I've trained only 3 days a week for a marathon in the past and ran a faster time than I did yesterday. I've trained 4 days a week in the past and ran sub 3:30.
Suppose I'm wondering where to go from here, I enjoy running and would love to do a few more marathons but only if my times are going to improve, anyone any suggestions on what changes I could make to help me achieve that?
Is it possible that too much training just doesn't suit me or should more miles/days running always give better results/times?
Both Marathons I've run this year my breathing has been comfortable the whole way around and my head clear, it's just my legs are feeling shot.
I've ran more miles this year and more days than any other year but I'm going backwards.

El Caballo

First thing I'd do if I was in your shoes would be to get a full check up and bloods done. Not just for iron but everything like thyroid, testosterone and whatever else they test for. This is just to clear everything medically first, then it may be time to look at your training. You've had a fairly large regression in times despite training so that would be my first concern.

kerrylad1

ooter wrote: »

I'd appreciate any pearls of wisdom from the good people on here, basically I don't feel my last few marathon times are reflecting the training I'm doing and it's really frustrating.
First half of this year I followed the hansons advanced plan for my spring Marathon (6 days a week) and honestly worked my arse off, genuinely thought I was in pb shape (3:14) but I ended up almost 30 mins slower than that.
Ditched hansons for DCM and went back to the plan that got me my PB, the P&D 55 mile (5 days a week) plan. For the first few weeks I had a PB in mind but as the weeks went on I was changing to sub 3:20, sub 3:25 and eventually settled on 3:30, genuinely thought I was in 3:30 shape. I ran the Dublin HM in 1:40 a few weeks ago but didn't go full tilt if I'm being honest so thought 3:30 for the full was doable.
Stuck on the tail of the 3:30 pacers yesterday but by half way I knew it wasn't to be, lost interest after that if I'm being honest and came home a few mins under 4 hours.
Can't get my head around how my times can be so different having followed the same plan but it is what it is.
I've trained only 3 days a week for a marathon in the past and ran a faster time than I did yesterday. I've trained 4 days a week in the past and ran sub 3:30.
Suppose I'm wondering where to go from here, I enjoy running and would love to do a few more marathons but only if my times are going to improve, anyone any suggestions on what changes I could make to help me achieve that?
Is it possible that too much training just doesn't suit me or should more miles/days running always give better results/times?
Both Marathons I've run this year my breathing has been comfortable the whole way around and my head clear, it's just my legs are feeling shot.
I've ran more miles this year and more days than any other year but I'm going backwards.

A mate of my dad's told me.you are training for a marathon,just keep doing lots of m.p miles,They had no internet back in early 80,s to follow,so this is what he used to do.I took his advice and it's payed off.I think at our level,lots of easy miles,and a long m.p run every 2nd week does the trick.I tried the p&d plan a few years ago,going for 3:15,blew up and came home in 3:21.Stick with it,you will find what works for you.Everyone has bad days.I had a rotten day in Dublin last year,bye the way.

RuMan

Would you consider stepping away from the marathon for a while ?
It doesn't seem like ur enjoying them currently.

Stick to shorter distances and see if you can improve times there, maybe try X country. Marathon training can be all consuming and while its each to their own doing 2 a year would destroy the magic for me. Are you in a club or just training by urself ?

ooter

RuMan wrote: »

Would you consider stepping away from the marathon for a while ?
It doesn't seem like ur enjoying them currently.

Stick to shorter distances and see if you can improve times there, maybe try X country. Marathon training can be all consuming and while its each to their own doing 2 a year would destroy the magic for me. Are you in a club or just training by urself ?

Yeah I do a bit of cross country/bhaa, I definitely need to work on my shorter distances because those times have suffered over the last few years.
Current 5k time would be around 2 mins off my PB,
Current 10k time would be around 4 mins off,
Current HM would be around 10 mins off.
I'd hate to lose the base I've built this year and was planning on doing a spring Marathon but maybe changing focus for the next 6 months might be the way to go, jump back in to DCM mode next may/June.
Not in a club, I've always trained by myself. I prefer to get my midweek runs in as soon as I get in from work at 5pm, the later club start (7pm?) just doesn't suit me and Saturday mornings don't suit me either.
Thanks for the replies lads.

adrian522

No need to lose your base, keep mileage at a moderately high level and train for a target race over a shorter distance, then look to go into a marathon plan in the summer.

kaymin

Sounds like you are over training. You need to listen to your body. Training 6 days a week is tough on the body and doesn't suit everyone. Rest is very important.

As long as you get one long run and one interval session in per week then I'd be reasonably relaxed about your other runs - run another medium run or another interval session per week if you feel up to it but don't force it. If you don't feel up to it then keep it easy running.

Personally I've struggled with structured training programmes and tend to run better after following an unstructured programme as I tend to listen to my body more and run according to how I feel.

Ceepo

ooter wrote: »

I'd appreciate any pearls of wisdom from the good people on here, basically I don't feel my last few marathon times are reflecting the training I'm doing and it's really frustrating.
First half of this year I followed the hansons advanced plan for my spring Marathon (6 days a week) and honestly worked my arse off, genuinely thought I was in pb shape (3:14) but I ended up almost 30 mins slower than that.
Ditched hansons for DCM and went back to the plan that got me my PB, the P&D 55 mile (5 days a week) plan. For the first few weeks I had a PB in mind but as the weeks went on I was changing to sub 3:20, sub 3:25 and eventually settled on 3:30, genuinely thought I was in 3:30 shape. I ran the Dublin HM in 1:40 a few weeks ago but didn't go full tilt if I'm being honest so thought 3:30 for the full was doable.
Stuck on the tail of the 3:30 pacers yesterday but by half way I knew it wasn't to be, lost interest after that if I'm being honest and came home a few mins under 4 hours.
Can't get my head around how my times can be so different having followed the same plan but it is what it is.
I've trained only 3 days a week for a marathon in the past and ran a faster time than I did yesterday. I've trained 4 days a week in the past and ran sub 3:30.
Suppose I'm wondering where to go from here, I enjoy running and would love to do a few more marathons but only if my times are going to improve, anyone any suggestions on what changes I could make to help me achieve that?
Is it possible that too much training just doesn't suit me or should more miles/days running always give better results/times?
Both Marathons I've run this year my breathing has been comfortable the whole way around and my head clear, it's just my legs are feeling shot.
I've ran more miles this year and more days than any other year but I'm going backwards.

You should consider sitting down and having a chat with a coach.
They might be able to give you a subjective view of your training, and suggest how you might be able to make improvements.
Training plans from th internet and/or a book are fine but don't take a lot of things into consideration such as work, sleep etc.

It's not always about logging in more miles but more about getting the balance right

RacoonQueen

Hard to tell based on information given here tbh.
Would need to see what times you're doing in training, what your HRs are (if you train by HR, if you don't I'd recommend it).
Did you do any other build up races besides the HM? What times did you do in them? What brought you to pick your goal time for Dublin this year - you seemed to keep changing it, what was this constant change based on?

ooter

Did the race series, 5 mile was 34 mins, 10k was 42 mins, 10 mile was 1 hr 15 and the half was 1 hr 40. I suppose as the weeks went on I was struggling to hold the marathon pace I thought I was capable of in my long runs so that's why I readjusted a few times.
Pretty much all of my intervals were done at 20 min 5k pace, a few at 21 min pace but certainly no slower.

Swashbuckler

What pace were your long runs at in training?

average_runner

For me there is a few things here:
1. Get the bloods checked.
2. Have kids come into your life lately?
3. Are you stressed over something?
4. Is your training cycle too long? May be p&d 12 week one be better.
5. Are you mentally tired?
6. Do you take a month off from running each year to recharge or do you just start another training cycle?
7. Are you time focus instead of enjoying the running? This is definitely one.

I wouldn't go straight into cross country, instead take time off from now till st Stephens day. Relax and recharge and look back at things.

Then aim for 5k to 10k for the first 6 months and see how you feel. Find the enjoyment again and forget the times.

RacoonQueen

ooter wrote: »

Did the race series, 5 mile was 34 mins, 10k was 42 mins, 10 mile was 1 hr 15 and the half was 1 hr 40. I suppose as the weeks went on I was struggling to hold the marathon pace I thought I was capable of in my long runs so that's why I readjusted a few times.
Pretty much all of my intervals were done at 20 min 5k pace, a few at 21 min pace but certainly no slower.

I'm not familiar with the training plan you did. Based off the above race times though, I would say 3:30 would have been a tight goal for you.

Does Hanson's plan tell you how to decide on your training paces?

Getting bloods done is never a bad idea. I suspect you need to overhaul your training as a whole..and if really struggling find a way to fit training with a club in even for a few months. I train as soon as I get home too and I'm washed and fed by the time my club would be just starting now. But 100% if I was struggling I'd be down running with them.

average_runners questions there are good ones to piece things together. No idea what this 'time off' malarky he is talking about is though!

ooter

average_runner wrote: »

For me there is a few things here:
1. Get the bloods checked.
2. Have kids come into your life lately?
3. Are you stressed over something?
4. Is your training cycle too long? May be p&d 12 week one be better.
5. Are you mentally tired?
6. Do you take a month off from running each year to recharge or do you just start another training cycle?
7. Are you time focus instead of enjoying the running? This is definitely one.

I wouldn't go straight into cross country, instead take time off from now till st Stephens day. Relax and recharge and look back at things.

Then aim for 5k to 10k for the first 6 months and see how you feel. Find the enjoyment again and forget the times.

2. Definitely not.
3. Certainly don't feel stressed, I've started doing meditation this year and probably feel more relaxed than ever.
4. Could be, I've only ever followed 18 week plans.
5. Again I don't think so, meditation has helped a lot with this too.
6. After my spring Marathon I took a week off and then for the next 3 weeks all I did was 3 x 5 mile runs a week fairly easy and then started P&D for Dublin, the only fast run I did all that month was the Irish runner 5 mile.
Doing nothing this week, might go out for a short/slow run next Sunday. Not sure if I'd be able to do nothing for the next 2 months, I'd have to get out and do a bit.
7. Yeah I probably am, I probably follow these plans too literally.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

What pace were your long runs at in training?

Week 5 14 miles w 10 @ 7:40 pace,
Week 6 18 miles @ 9:00 pace,
Week 9 15 miles w 10 @ 7:30 pace,
Week 10 14 miles @ 9:20 pace,
Week 11 20 miles @ 9:00 pace,
Week 12 17 miles @ 8:23 pace,
Week 14 17 miles @ 8:44 pace,
Week 15 20 miles @ 9:23 pace.

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Does Hanson's plan tell you how to decide on your training paces?

There's a pace equivalency chart and you work out your training paces from that. I based my paces off a recent 5 mile race (33:50) and pretty much nailed all the paces required through the plan. Sub 3:15 was probably a bit optimistic, maybe even 3:20 but there's no way I should've ran 3:40+.

average_runner

ooter wrote: »

2. Definitely not.
3. Certainly don't feel stressed, I've started doing meditation this year and probably feel more relaxed than ever.
4. Could be, I've only ever followed 18 week plans.
5. Again I don't think so, meditation has helped a lot with this too.
6. After my spring Marathon I took a week off and then for the next 3 weeks all I did was 3 x 5 mile runs a week fairly easy and then started P&D for Dublin, the only fast run I did all that month was the Irish runner 5 mile.
Doing nothing this week, might go out for a short/slow run next Sunday. Not sure if I'd be able to do nothing for the next 2 months, I'd have to get out and do a bit.
7. Yeah I probably am, I probably follow these plans too literally.

Week 5 14 miles w 10 @ 7:40 pace,
Week 6 18 miles @ 9:00 pace,
Week 9 15 miles w 10 @ 7:30 pace,
Week 10 14 miles @ 9:20 pace,
Week 11 20 miles @ 9:00 pace,
Week 12 17 miles @ 8:23 pace,
Week 14 17 miles @ 8:44 pace,
Week 15 20 miles @ 9:23 pace.

There's a pace equivalency chart and you work out your training paces from that. I based my paces off a recent 5 mile race (33:50) and pretty much nailed all the paces required through the plan. Sub 3:15 was probably a bit optimistic, maybe even 3:20 but there's no way I should've ran 3:40+.

To be honest, my pb for 5 miles is 33:08, but i wouldn't be able to hit 3:15. Not everything can be translated into another distance sadly. We have strengths in different areas of running.

ooter

Would anyone have any recommendations on where in Dublin to get my bloods done?

Van.Bosch

ooter wrote: »

Would anyone have any recommendations on where in Dublin to get my bloods done?

I use my GP in the Hanover medical centre near grand Canal and find them excellent.

cullenswood

ooter wrote: »

Would anyone have any recommendations on where in Dublin to get my bloods done?

Any doctor should be happy take your bloods for you, and get them checked over.

average_runner

ooter wrote: »

Would anyone have any recommendations on where in Dublin to get my bloods done?

Don't get stressed or worried when waiting for the results.

ThePiedPiper

I know lots of people will say long slow runs should be slow, but in my experience, running the long runs more than a minute per mile off target pace is going to leave you undercooked. When looking at an aggressive time target, I'd work towards running 14 miles of a 20niler at MP.

I was where you are a for a couple of years there, was flogging a dead horse and getting nowhere near PB shape. I stepped back a bit, and mentally and physically, feel completely refreshed. Focusing on times can be mentally tiring. There's no one right answer here, but hopefully, given time, you'll get your mojo back.

ooter

ThePiedPiper wrote: »

When looking at an aggressive time target, I'd work towards running 14 miles of a 20niler at MP.

Thanks TPP, how many of those 20 milers would you think is required when preparing for a marathon?

Chivito550

Get a coach. There's a reason why most of the best athletes have coaches. Self-coaching is a very difficult art. Many experienced athletes can't manage it, so imagine how hard it would be for a relative novice.

ThePiedPiper

ooter wrote: »

Thanks TPP, how many of those 20 milers would you think is required when preparing for a marathon?

In my better structured training cycles, I'd have done maybe 4 or 5 20 mile runs, increasing the MP miles from about 4, 7, 10, 14. I've never missed a target when I managed those sessions. But, as said above, everyone is different, and what works for one might not work for another

VO2Max

Take some time off from marathon racing and focus on getting faster on shorter races. Keep a good base doing this if the body can handle the milage, in a year or so maybe look at marathon training again. If possible join a club ideally with a good coach or with good experienced runners or get a private coach if the club isn't working. Look at your diet too it plays a massive roll.

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

Get a coach. There's a reason why most of the best athletes have coaches. Self-coaching is a very difficult art. Many experienced athletes can't manage it, so imagine how hard it would be for a relative novice.

Are we talking one on one coaching or just a general coach ?

What's the cost of this? More curious than anything else.

RacoonQueen

average_runner wrote: »

Are we talking one on one coaching or just a general coach ?

What's the cost of this? More curious than anything else.

Depends on the coach. Some don't charge, some do. I got one when I was losing the love and couldn't get to club sessions. Pain 80 a month, I'm sure I could have got one from a pool of people I know, cheaper or free but I was happy with what I went with. 'Coach' myself now but I wouldn't be in a position to be able to do that properly if it wasn't for the work I did with him.

I don't think being coached is for everyone. I'm close to uncoachable would be hard to find someone who really works for me and I just got frustrated myself at the time with not always being able to follow the plan for various reasons.

ooter

VO2Max wrote: »

Take some time off from marathon racing and focus on getting faster on shorter races. Keep a good base doing this if the body can handle the milage, in a year or so maybe look at marathon training again. If possible join a club ideally with a good coach or with good experienced runners or get a private coach if the club isn't working. Look at your diet too it plays a massive roll.

Thanks V, I definitely need to work on my shorter distances, what sort of weekly mileage would be considered a good base?

average_runner

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Depends on the coach. Some don't charge, some do. I got one when I was losing the love and couldn't get to club sessions. Pain 80 a month, I'm sure I could have got one from a pool of people I know, cheaper or free but I was happy with what I went with. 'Coach' myself now but I wouldn't be in a position to be able to do that properly if it wasn't for the work I did with him.

I don't think being coached is for everyone. I'm close to uncoachable would be hard to find someone who really works for me and I just got frustrated myself at the time with not always being able to follow the plan for various reasons.

Where do you go to find a coach?

VO2Max

ooter wrote: »

Thanks V, I definitely need to work on my shorter distances, what sort of weekly mileage would be considered a good base?

Without known much about you it will depend on your running history, injuries, average weekly milage over that past few years, etc as everyone is different. You were following a 55mile or nearly 90 km plan so I would aim to reach that kind of milage consistently in the long term (years not months) but it's going to take time to build up to that while avoiding injury.

RacoonQueen

average_runner wrote: »

Where do you go to find a coach?

I used Robert Denmead. Heard good things and had a website. I wouldn't have known how otherwise.
I know others have simply approached other runners they know.

Emmet Dunleavy also has a website
http://www.perfectpacing.com/

Others, some of who are regular posters on here and have other full time jobs mostly don't so probably harder to link up with (likes of ecoli and TRR for example who have coached boardsies).
Jackyback coaches triathlon and running - https://ascentsportscoaching.com/

edit: I would suspect it is easier to find the right coach for you through your peers and approaching coaches whose approach to running suits you. Logging on here has probably landed a few people with coaches as its a good way to see how someone approaches their own training.

Murph_D

When you ran 3:40 instead of a planned 3:15-20, what were your splits? Did you have a big fade at the end or did you suffer all the way through? If it's a big fade you're probably looking at an endurance issue, which could be a result of low mileage or training at inappropriate paces. There's also the mental side, and all sorts of other issues around hydration and nutrition (although nutrition is less an issue for most of us mid-packers as long as you're reasonable). There's also conditioning, race strategy, etc. P&D, Hanson etc talk a lot about this side but many people just get hold of the running schedule and think that's enough. It isn't. How closely did you study the books (as that's an important element for those of us who are self-coached)?

ThisRegard

average_runner wrote: »

2. Have kids come into your life lately?

The time my kids came into the world I was never fitter!

ooter

Murph_D wrote: »

When you ran 3:40 instead of a planned 3:15-20, what were your splits? Did you have a big fade at the end or did you suffer all the way through?

I would say I suffered the whole way through but moreso as the race went on. I found my legs just didn't recover during taper and even while doing a light jog the day before the race I knew something was very wrong so decided to have a go at 3:30 instead. Splits were 48 mins for 10k, 1:44 for half way, 2:45 for 20m and 3:43 finish.
Splits for last Sunday were similar for the first half but even worse for the 2nd half but I felt i tapered better and felt much better before the race, legs didn't feel tired and I honestly thought 3:30 was on.
I read both books and feel I carried out the plans as prescribed, I probably put the bad performance following hansons down mainly to the 16 mile longest run and probably trained too hard but I'm at a loss as to why I ran so poorly following P&D.

Murph_D

ooter wrote: »

I would say I suffered the whole way through but moreso as the race went on. I found my legs just didn't recover during taper and even while doing a light jog the day before the race I knew something was very wrong so decided to have a go at 3:30 instead. Splits were 48 mins for 10k, 1:44 for half way, 2:45 for 20m and 3:43 finish.
Splits for last Sunday were similar for the first half but even worse for the 2nd half but I felt i tapered better and felt much better before the race, legs didn't feel tired and I honestly thought 3:30 was on.
I read both books and feel I carried out the plans as prescribed, I probably put the bad performance following hansons down mainly to the 16 mile longest run and probably trained too hard but I'm at a loss as to why I ran so poorly following P&D.

Interesting. Why do you put the performance down to the 16m longest run, as a matter of interest?

I ask because I have had the opposite experience, big PBs at HM and M using Hanson plans for first time.

The splits you've posted suggest your problems are in the second half, and that you've tended to go out a little fast.

ooter

Murph_D wrote: »

Interesting. Why do you put the performance down to the 16m longest run, as a matter of interest?

I ask because I have had the opposite experience, big PBs at HM and M using Hanson plans for first time.

The splits you've posted suggest your problems are in the second half, and that you've tended to go out a little fast.

I suppose it was the only thing I could pin such a bad performance on, I had always run up to 20 mile long runs in all my other Marathons.
Loads of people seem to have success with hansons, I'm not knocking the plan, just didn't work for me.
That would've been my opinion up to last weekend but I'm not so sure now following an even worse result using a plan I had great results with in the past. I'm obviously not as fast over the shorter distances now as I was then but a 40 minutes difference in marathon times is baffling.

El Caballo

I think the issue here is that a guy who used to run 1:26/7 for the half and 3:14 for the marathon can't break 1:40 or 3:30 anymore despite never dropping training substantially in that time. As a guy whose Pb's are fairly similar, I could probably run those times after a year off which tells me something is seriously wrong and that more volume or intensity may not be the way to go, this seems a lot more significant than a lack of training based endurance. Either he is mentally/physically overcooking it and hasn't recovered or something is medically off.

Adding more mileage or increasing the intensity is not something I'd recommend here, dropping mileage and intensity would probably be a better option right now as the results are going downhill as it is so there should not be much to lose but the recovery might help.

El Caballo

What is your diet like ooter? How many meals a day are you eating and calories are you taking in? Has your weight changed much since you ran 3:14? Marathon training takes up a lot of energy, if you aren't getting enough in, you will have dead legs and not recover properly.

Murph_D

Ah, I missed the 3:14 previous PB.

OP, how long ago was that?

What I DO see is a runner choosing a marathon target based on times identical to my own at 10k and 5m, but choosing 3:15 instead of 3:20 (a big difference in my book). The struggle was therefore maybe not unusual as it was too ambitious, possibly based on a former PB that is no longer realistic?

Still a lot of unknown info here (for me).

ooter

Pb was in 2014.
I would consider my diet to be very good to be honest, I eat mostly plant based (fresh fruit and veg and steamed veg) and loads of healthy grains (buckwheat/quinoa etc) but I'd also have eggs at least once a week, fish maybe once a week and other meats occasionally.
Very little dairy apart from the odd bit of cheese, I'd eat more sheep/goats cheese than dairy cheese. I'd eat 4/5 times a day. Very little processed foods, I prepare most of my own meals.
When I ran my PB i would've been 100% plant based diet.
Never really one for keeping tabs on my weight but I'd say I'm no more that 7lbs heavier now than I was for my PB if even that.

El Caballo

ooter wrote: »

Pb was in 2014.
I would consider my diet to be very good to be honest, I eat mostly plant based (fresh fruit and veg and steamed veg) and loads of healthy grains (buckwheat/quinoa etc) but I'd also have eggs at least once a week, fish maybe once a week and other meats occasionally.
Very little dairy apart from the odd bit of cheese, I'd eat more sheep/goats cheese than dairy cheese.
When I ran my PB i would've been 100% plant based diet.
Never really one for keeping tabs on my weight but I'd say I'm no more that 7lbs heavier now than I was for my PB if even that.

If you get the bloods done, make sure to ask for a B12 test as well. it doesn't come with routine bloods but could be important as someone who eats a plant based diet. B12 is needed to absorb iron so even if you are getting enough iron from your diet, it is also entirely possible that you could still become anaemic due to a B12 deficiency.

As you are probably aware too, it's hard to get in a lot of calories from a plant based diet and plant based-protein is not as rich as animal based which means you have to eat more to get the same effects. Someone doing the training you do would need to be consuming in excess of 3000 calories a day to perform well. Might be something to keep an eye on just to see as well.

ooter

Yeah I have b12 drops in my fridge, probably don't take them as often as I should though.

Murph_D

ooter wrote: »

Pb was in 2014.

What about 2015-2016? What kind of running/performances - was there a sudden drop off or a gradual decline to the disappointing 2017 spring/autumn marathons?

Swashbuckler

Was just going ask what Murph asked. Seems like the P&D worked well for you previously but what was the previous years training like prior to that pb? And same for this year. What was this year's p&d off the back of?

Given the legs were the problem and not the lungs (assuming it's not diet related) you would think it's endurance related. Have you a good years running behind you before starting the most recent plan?

Your long runs don't look too fast so that can be ruled out.

ooter

Murph_D wrote: »

What about 2015-2016? What kind of running/performances - was there a sudden drop off or a gradual decline to the disappointing 2017 spring/autumn marathons?

Picked up a shin injury in the build up to Dublin 2015 that ruled me out, by the time that cleared up enough to get back on the road London was on the horizon, minded myself all through that build up and only trained 3 days a week cos I didn't want the injury to come back and end up missing out, think I ran 3:50 @ London but went out from the start @ 9 mins per mile so it was to be expected. Injured again in the build up to Dublin last year and only got 8 weeks (4 days a week) decent training in, trotted around in 4:10.
The last 12 months I've had no injury problems and have been training solid 5/6 days a week.

Murph_D

Well I think you've just revealed something there.

You don't say how much running you missed but assumably quite a bit, followed than by a three-day regime for London 2016 then further injury. Under those circumstances, I think many of us would have struggled with a 2017 spring and then autumn marathon schedule.

You haven't revealed age, but I believe you have mentioned elsewhere that you 'are not getting any younger', which may also be a factor. Those of us who are a little older recover more slowly, and can find it harder to get back to where we were after some time off. Not saying you are in that category - you are coy with the details - but if so, that might also apply.

ooter

Murph_D wrote: »

Well I think you've just revealed something there.

You don't say how much running you missed but assumably quite a bit, followed than by a three-day regime for London 2016 then further injury. Under those circumstances, I think many of us would have struggled with a 2017 spring and then autumn marathon schedule.

I'd say I missed 4 weeks tops with the shin injury but it came 3/4 weeks out from the dublin marathon so just terrible timing. After London I missed about 7 weeks between July and August.
I'm 44 by the way, probably should've mentioned that earlier.

Murph_D

Well that rules age out as a factor too.

ger664

Average_runners point 6. Take a month off no running bug the the other half for a few weeks in the evening. Get the blood work done as well just to rule out anything medical.

RacoonQueen

ger664 wrote: »

Take a month off no running.

This sounds like hell.

average_runner

RacoonQueen wrote: »

This sounds like hell.

Its tough but its amazing what it can do for you. You can do some swimming or cycling etc, but no intensity.

But for you, you have to stop cycling, swimming and running, so maybe some draughts

Clearlier

Hey ooter, others have said this but it may have gotten lost amongst the training advice.  While your training probably isn't optimal, it sounds pretty reasonable and it doesn't come close to explaining the drop off in performance.  You have to go to great lengths to blame your training for this and it's just not a likely explanation.

I can't recommend one but I'd get to a good GP and while there's a good chance that you will turn out to have something that readily explains this via a blood test I'd be expecting a wider examination of  your health than just blood tests.

Hope you get an answer that gives you a quick and easy solution.