Polish language announcements on trains

Del.Monte

Given that Polish now appears to be spoken more widely than Irish in Ireland should it be added to the interminable long winded announcements on Irish Rail?

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-now-the-third-most-spoken-language-in-ireland-after-english-and-polish-145200025-237438651

Do we in fact need all the announcements in any language as they are frequently out of synch with the locations of the train and destroy what little peaceful ambience remaining on todays' CIE rail services?

Markcheese

To be honest the announcements are handy, especially if you're not familiar with the line or are semi dozing... You're right about Irish / Polish in terms of numbers, just call it a legacy thing.. plus the Irish name for many places is totally different to the English, whereas Polish wouldn't be :-)

server down

The answer is no. They are using the two official languages of the State.

Calina

You guys are precious.

Some of the trains in Europe include English in addition to local languages. In Switzerland I got the announcements on a EC train in French, German, Italian and English. I get them in French, German and English on the TGV from Luxembourg to Paris. National language isn't a limitation.

server down

Calina wrote: »

You guys are precious.

Some of the trains in Europe include English in addition to local languages. In Switzerland I got the announcements on a EC train in French, German, Italian and English. I get them in French, German and English on the TGV from Luxembourg to Paris. National language isn't a limitation.

So, the official languages of those countries and english. Sounds like we should add English. Oh...

English is, for better or worse, a lingua Franca. It’s there for English speakers and English as a second language speakers. That includes a lot of people.

I think the announcements should be restricted to the stop names only, like with the DART or the 29000 railcars. The essay before and after every stop is unnecessary.

Hilly Bill

Del.Monte wrote: »

Given that Polish now appears to be spoken more widely than Irish in Ireland should it be added to the interminable long winded announcements on Irish Rail?

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-now-the-third-most-spoken-language-in-ireland-after-english-and-polish-145200025-237438651

Do we in fact need all the announcements in any language as they are frequently out of synch with the locations of the train and destroy what little peaceful ambience remaining on todays' CIE rail services?

No it shouldn't, either learn English or Irish.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Calina

jacksie66 wrote: »

If you move to a different country you should learn the language, not expect the country to change to suit you..

IME the absolute worst and laziest for learning local languages are English native speakers.

AndrewJRenko

Del.Monte wrote: »

destroy what little peaceful ambience remaining on todays' CIE rail services?

People with sight loss might take a different view on the value of audible stop announcements.

liam7831

If they don't understand English tough s hit

flaneur

They should make them less verbose.
There’s a lot of pointless waffle.

Skip unnecessary words like “ladies and gentlemen”

“Welcome to the XX:XX service to DESTINATION - stopping at: A, b, c & d”

“Please do not sit in reserved seats without a reservation - check the electronic signs above each seat”

“Note the location of emergency exits and please stow your luggage carefully - do not block the aisles or doorway.”

“Smoking on board is illegal”

“Thank you for traveling with Iarnrod Éireann”

They also say “stored” when they mean “stowed” and the reserved seating message is long winded and unclear.

When they get to the station : “Mala / Mallow - Mala / Mallow” is enough.

Dyr

The announcements are grand as is

People with little enough to be worrying about obviously

marklazarcovic

they all speak english anyway

cdeb

The OP has a history of these kind of threads/rants I think.

Best ignored at this stage.

Agree the announcements are fine. I like hearing the Irish.

bk

flaneur wrote: »

They should make them less verbose.
There’s a lot of pointless waffle.

Skip unnecessary words like “ladies and gentlemen”

“Welcome to the XX:XX service to DESTINATION - stopping at: A, b, c & d”

“Please do not sit in reserved seats without a reservation - check the electronic signs above each seat”

“Note the location of emergency exits and please stow your luggage carefully - do not block the aisles or doorway.”

“Smoking on board is illegal”

“Thank you for traveling with Iarnrod Éireann”

They also say “stored” when they mean “stowed” and the reserved seating message is long winded and unclear.

When they get to the station : “Mala / Mallow - Mala / Mallow” is enough.

This, big time. It is one of the major reasons why I actually find the intercity coach services to be much quieter and more comfortable then the train. No annoying loud announcements that go on for ever waking you up constantly. Just sit back and relax until you get to Dublin.

flaneur

You don’t want to be getting to the level of Belgian auto announcers - up to 4 languages and as long winded as Irish rail!

Noise canceling headphones a would be useful.

The issue I find with the IE announcements is they’re so verbose they’re confusing. Also while the guy has a great voice and I’m not being sexist here, a higher tone female voice tends to cut through the din of station platforms and low frequency sounds much better.

You need crisp, clear, friendly sounding announcements that get to the point in a few words. Bilingual announcements mean you even have to be more brief still.

Also it’s not an aircraft - a lot of their announcements are required due to the nature of flying - lots of safety procedures and so on that are not needed on trains.

flaneur

This is what happens :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTNSaIhJR-E

And why I wear noise cancelling headphones in Belgium!

Be careful what you wish for !!

cgcsb

Well no, because this is Ireland, not Poland. The announcements are probably a bit much really, I'd be happy with just the stop names. Like do you really need to be told over the tannoy that it's a non-smoking train. Seriously when was the last time you could smoke on a train.

cdeb

There's presumably legal requirements they have to comply with. So yeah, you're right, but it's probably not IÉ's fault.

Obvious Otter

Calina wrote: »

IME the absolute worst and laziest for learning local languages are English native speakers.

Well it’s quite obvuous why that is. You might get by with English in some non-native speaking countries becuase it’s the second language of the majority of the world. You could easily live in numerous non-native counties and easily get by on English so the requirement to learn isn’t as burdensome.

flaneur

Seems it has been banned since 29 March 2004, same day the general smoking in the work place ban came in.

flaneur

flaneur wrote: »

Seems it has been banned since 29 March 2004, same day the general smoking in the work place ban came in.

That’s right. I remember the Cork train having dedicated smoking coaches in the late 90s.

flaneur

I remember as a child being unable to get a seat in the non-smoking coaches and arriving in Cork literally pickled.
You'd wonder how much damage that did to my health.

They used to really stink.

magicbastarder

getting back to the information source quoted, the irish news story:
"The Census found that 82,600 in Ireland speak Irish outside of school"
from the CSO themselves (http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/documents/census2011pdr/Census_2011_Highlights_Part_1_web_72dpi.pdf):
"77,185 said they speak it daily outside the education system. A further 110,642 said they spoke it weekly, while 613,236 said they spoke it less often. "

the figure quoted in the article for people speaking polish at home - 119,726 - matches the figure provided by the CSO.

they're the 2011 figures. 2016 figures seem to show a drop of about 1% in irish being spoken, on a cursory glance.

Del.Monte

cdeb wrote: »

There's presumably legal requirements they have to comply with. So yeah, you're right, but it's probably not IÉ's fault.

Righty, why is it not the same on coaches then? And if you're so precious about people starting threads why come into them? :rolleyes:

Zaph

They should fix the existing announcements first before adding any extra languages. The announcements for Broombridge and occasionally some later stops on the Docklands - M3 Parkway trains sound like Chewbacca is making the announcement. It's been like that for the last few years, why someone in Irish Rail hasn't seen fit to fix it yet is a mystery to me.

Hilly Bill

cdeb wrote: »

The OP has a history of these kind of threads/rants I think.

Best ignored at this stage.

Agree the announcements are fine. I like hearing the Irish.

It's a handy way to pick up a bit of Irish.

jahalpin

The announcements should be in the functional language of the country only, which is English

The scrolling displays and real time information displays should also only be in English

An Riabhach

Del.Monte wrote: »

Given that Polish now appears to be spoken more widely than Irish in Ireland should it be added to the interminable long winded announcements on Irish Rail?

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-now-the-third-most-spoken-language-in-ireland-after-english-and-polish-145200025-237438651


Do we in fact need all the announcements in any language as they are frequently out of synch with the locations of the train and destroy what little peaceful ambience remaining on todays' CIE rail services?

The announcements should be in two languages:
Irish and English.

End of.

cdeb

Del.Monte wrote: »

Righty, why is it not the same on coaches then? And if you're so precious about people starting threads why come into them? :rolleyes:

Don't know why it's not on coaches. I don't think there's any announcements on coaches? Been a long time since I was on a Bus Éireann bus. No such announcements on the DART either - bar the display which does flash up about CCTV at intervals. I could well imagine a CCTV announcement being a legal requirement. You are being filmed.

As to your second point - I think it's a pertinent observation that you only seem to post about Iarnród Éireann to have a silly whine. Too many babies on my carriage; no paper timetables in stations; stuff like that. You've complained about the announcements several times before I think. Am I not allowed make pertinent observations?

Del.Monte

cdeb wrote: »

Don't know why it's not on coaches. I don't think there's any announcements on coaches? Been a long time since I was on a Bus Éireann bus. No such announcements on the DART either - bar the display which does flash up about CCTV at intervals. I could well imagine a CCTV announcement being a legal requirement. You are being filmed.

As to your second point - I think it's a pertinent observation that you only seem to post about Iarnród Éireann to have a silly whine. Too many babies on my carriage; no paper timetables in stations; stuff like that. You've complained about the announcements several times before I think. Am I not allowed make pertinent observations?

One person's silly whine is another's valid complaint. I have been whining/complaining to and about CIE since I left school in 1976 - sometimes with success but mostly not. Perhaps if more people had whined/complained things mightn't be in such a mess today.

cdeb

Del.Monte wrote: »

I have been whining/complaining to and about CIE since I left school in 1976 - sometimes with success but mostly not.

I can well believe it.

Del.Monte wrote: »

Perhaps if more people had whined/complained things mightn't be in such a mess today.

No. More people complaining about babies on trains, the lack of paper timetables and Irish language announcements would not have any impact whatsoever on the current IÉ mess. I don't see how you could possibly think otherwise.

Del.Monte

cdeb wrote: »

I can well believe it.


No. More people complaining about babies on trains, the lack of paper timetables and Irish language announcements would not have any impact whatsoever on the current IÉ mess. I don't see how you could possibly think otherwise.

I don't recall ever complaining about babies on trains - having two myself helps in being more understanding in these matters.

I have posted on far more serious issues within CIE but you choose to harp on about paper timetables and language announcements - says more about your perusal of Boards than my posting. Things such as the lack of printed timetables, annoying announcements etc. are just symptoms of an organisation that doesn't give a damn about its customers.

As for complaints working - they sometimes do - as I know for a fact on one occasion by letter writing and cooperating with a local TD that a timetable change was reversed. But of course if you just sit back and let life wash over you while wringing your hands uselessly....

PS What have you been doing since leaving school - playing chess?

magicbastarder

classy.

Neon_Lights

Why don't we call ourselves little polski and officially add the language to our list of official languages. Ah no wait let's just forget the whole Irish thing altogether sure all it is is diddly eye rubbish anyway, unless there's brits involved then it's up the RA, celtic and Amhrán na bhFiann

Del.Monte

magicbastarder wrote: »

classy.

I didn't start it - sauce for the goose...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105125728&postcount=32

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105126819&postcount=33

cgcsb

jahalpin wrote: »

The announcements should be in the functional language of the country only, which is English

The scrolling displays and real time information displays should also only be in English

In your opinion perhaps. Most would disagree, I suspect. We've actively chosen as a country to make the Irish language a central part of our heritage and culture so arms of the state will continue to use it. I notice now commercial radio stations are now presenting in an English/Irish mix that is very understandable for the non-fluent speaker. More of same should be the norm.

bk

cgcsb wrote: »

In your opinion perhaps. Most would disagree, I suspect. We've actively chosen as a country to make the Irish language a central part of our heritage and culture so arms of the state will continue to use it. I notice now commercial radio stations are now presenting in an English/Irish mix that is very understandable for the non-fluent speaker. More of same should be the norm.

Did we choose? I don't remember ever voting on it?

Our was it hoisted on us post independence and with a lot of other dancing on the roads nationalistic nonsense that extremely damaged our economy for the first few decades.

It is also laughable to say Irish is a central part of our heritage and culture when so few people know more then a few words. X-Factor is now more part of our culture then Irish.

magicbastarder

i know a few gaelgoirs and they resent the way irish is taught in schools. it's taught as a dead language, and until the curriculum gets a total overhaul, it'll continue to die a slow death.

bk

magicbastarder wrote: »

i know a few gaelgoirs and they resent the way irish is taught in schools. it's taught as a dead language, and until the curriculum gets a total overhaul, it'll continue to die a slow death.

Yes, plus a great deal of money wasted on translating government documents that no one reads or place names for signs and transport announcements that no one uses. All the money would be much better spent on better Irish education IMO.

L1011

cgcsb wrote: »

In your opinion perhaps. Most would disagree, I suspect. We've actively chosen as a country to make the Irish language a central part of our heritage and culture so arms of the state will continue to use it. I notice now commercial radio stations are now presenting in an English/Irish mix that is very understandable for the non-fluent speaker. More of same should be the norm.

One show on iradio to meet contract requirements != Commercial stations as a whole

No commercial station carries Irish by choice

Calina

Obvious Otter wrote: »

Well it’s quite obvuous why that is. You might get by with English in some non-native speaking countries becuase it’s the second language of the majority of the world. You could easily live in numerous non-native counties and easily get by on English so the requirement to learn isn’t as burdensome.

In other words, English native speakers can be lazy. My experience is that not all of them are, but in general, the fact that you can get away with English is no reason to get away with English.

Zaph wrote: »

They should fix the existing announcements first before adding any extra languages. The announcements for Broombridge and occasionally some later stops on the Docklands - M3 Parkway trains sound like Chewbacca is making the announcement. It's been like that for the last few years, why someone in Irish Rail hasn't seen fit to fix it yet is a mystery to me.

I would tend to agree with this although it's a while since I've been on that line. The point of announcements is to inform people. That's the underlying objective. If we have enough of a third language using the services, maybe we need to consider their needs as well.

Del.Monte wrote: »

As for complaints working - they sometimes do - as I know for a fact on one occasion by letter writing and cooperating with a local TD that a timetable change was reversed.

As a general note, a key issue with Ireland is that TDs get involved in what are essentially parochial matters like train time tables. This is the sort of thing that should feature a transport authority or the local/regional authority at most. It shouldn't be taking up the time of TDs.

I'm interested in a way in the response here: EN isn't the only functional language in Ireland. It may be the dominant one but it's not alone. And hilariously, by the way I regularly hear Irish in buses and on the streets of Luxembourg.

The point of train announcements is to communicate with people. Typically we need to do this in a useful fashion. I don't have an objection to the announcements coming in English and Irish as national languages. What a modern forward thinking country might also consider is whether they need to address any other language needs. There are various ways of doing this.

Into the future, I'd like to see technology used to enable announcements in additional languages selected on a phone or a watch, and especially, via video in sign language. In the meantime, if there is a specific need in certain areas - I'm thinking Dublin for example - for other languages to be occasionally provided for the purposes of communicating with the customer and keeping them informed, I don't see that the constitution should be used as a sledge hammer to say no.

Irish people are generally bad at foreign language acquisition. I sometimes wonder if the strong reaction against recognising diverse language communities are because it solidly reminds people just how lazy they can be at learning languages. But other countries have to address multilingual needs. I'm in a country with 3 official languages, I've travelled recently enough in one with 4 and I'm regularly in Belgium which defaults to using English specifically to support the needs of foreigners. I don't see why it has to be different here but this is not the first time I've seen this debate come up - I saw some complaints when Dublin Bus started making announcements regarding upcoming stops (and they were decades behind most European cities on that front)

IF your view is "it should just be English" or "it should be just English and Irish" without any consideration of a needs based focus on communication or because that's just the way it should be, that isn't really much of an argument.

Personally I think it's not necessarily something that is required network wide but could be useful in certain parts of the network. It need not just be Polish - it could be other languages in the future and like I said, I'd like to see a technological solution that would make ISL available.

end of the road

jacksie66 wrote: »

If you move to a different country you should learn the language, not expect the country to change to suit you..

looking for extra language announcements on a train isn't "expecting the country to suit you"

But where do you draw the line? Would we have to invent Polish names for each stop in the same way that many Dublin Bus stops had to have Irish names invented when RTPI was converted? I'm with bk on this one, it would just push me more towards private buses which aren't obliged to do any of this.

end of the road

cdeb wrote: »

The OP has a history of these kind of threads/rants I think.

Best ignored at this stage.

no he doesn't.

cdeb wrote: »

As to your second point - I think it's a pertinent observation that you only seem to post about Iarnród Éireann to have a silly whine. Too many babies on my carriage; no paper timetables in stations; stuff like that. You've complained about the announcements several times before I think. Am I not allowed make pertinent observations?

wrong, he posts to make legitimate complaints about the service being provided by irish rail. complaints which as a long term rail user myself, i can verify to be accurate.

Calina wrote: »

As a general note, a key issue with Ireland is that TDs get involved in what are essentially parochial matters like train time tables. This is the sort of thing that should feature a transport authority or the local/regional authority at most. It shouldn't be taking up the time of TDs.

i disagree. having a local td who is willing to deal with such matters can be a lot more effective then relying on a transport authority, who as they aren't elected, don't have as much of an incentive to get the issue sorted.

Karsini wrote: »

But where do you draw the line? Would we have to invent Polish names for each stop in the same way that many Dublin Bus stops had to have Irish names invented when RTPI was converted? I'm with bk on this one, it would just push me more towards private buses which aren't obliged to do any of this.

i'm not for more different language announcements. i'm simply counteracting this playing the victim type nonsense that people are trying to force the country to change to suit them by simply making a suggestion which they know there is no obligation to implement.

Del.Monte

Deedsie wrote: »

I like hearing the Irish announcements on public transport. Hope they continue with them.

So you actually like the stream of announcements that are repeated at every station on a journey - really? Nobody. least of all me is against bilingual announcements - simple ones like next station is x not nonsense like seats are not for feet; a listing of every station on the train's itinerary; thank you for travelling with Iarnrod Eireann; have a pleasant and comfortable journey.....The last one is using words for the sake of it as a pleasant journey is surely a comfortable one? Somebody with a severe case of verbal diarrhea designed these announcements.

How does Luas manage without the nonsense of thanking you for travelling with them and reciting the whole list of stops over and over again?

cdeb

Del.Monte wrote: »

PS What have you been doing since leaving school - playing chess?

Really?

Is that really the standard of debate you're happy bringing to this?

Yes, all I've done since leaving school is play chess. :rolleyes:

Calina wrote: »

Into the future, I'd like to see technology used to enable announcements in additional languages selected on a phone or a watch, and especially, via video in sign language.

I don't think this is a good idea.

If a foreign national, whose first language is other than English (or Irish), moves to Ireland, they need to gain fluency in English - not to understand train messages, but to communicate with everyone else in the country. I've turned down job applicants because their English is barely conversational level. Allowing people like this to use technology to hide within their own language and lessen their exposure to the language everyone else in the country speaks can only lead to more cases where people simply can't speak English at an adequate level.

The key metric here isn't that 5% of the country (or whatever it is) speak Polish - it's that 95% have literally no idea what any of it means. For that reason alone, Polish should not be used as a public language.

Is that a reason to stop bilingual announcements? The argument could be made alright, but when you get beyond the usual whining about Irish, you'll find that way more than 5% of the country have some idea of what's being spoken about.

Dravokivich

Calina wrote: »

Into the future, I'd like to see technology used to enable announcements in additional languages selected on a phone or a watch, and especially, via video in sign language. In the meantime, if there is a specific need in certain areas - I'm thinking Dublin for example - for other languages to be occasionally provided for the purposes of communicating with the customer and keeping them informed, I don't see that the constitution should be used as a sledge hammer to say no.

There's scrolling displays all over the carriages and (when working) a light the blips along the route on a map.

devnull

Dravokivich wrote: »

There's scrolling displays all over the carriages and (when working) a light the blips along the route on a map.

I've never seen those maps working in years and that is from someone who has taken hundreds of DARTs in that time.

Dravokivich

devnull wrote: »

I've never seen those maps working in years and that is from someone who has taken hundreds of DARTs in that time.

I know, I was just saying what's in place, that's already sufficient for people with hearing issues. We don't need to over do technology when there's a solution in there, or somewhat available already.