Irelands biggest bottlenecks

veryangryman

Now that most major bottlenecks are cleared with a road to Dublin or other major city replacing it, it appears to me that our traffic bottlenecks are actually now on the bypasses themselves. In order...

Dunlettle and n40 cork
Naas M7
M50 Ballymun to Tallaght
Lucan and leixlip where M4 begins
After this we hit Adare and Claregalway in actual towns that need a bypass

Any thoughts on priorities here?

Gorgeousgeorge

veryangryman wrote: »

Now that most major bottlenecks are cleared with a road to Dublin or other major city replacing it, it appears to me that our traffic bottlenecks are actually now on the bypasses themselves. In order...

Dunlettle and n40 cork
Naas M7
M50 Ballymun to Tallaght
Lucan and leixlip where M4 begins
After this we hit Adare and Claregalway in actual towns that need a bypass

Any thoughts on priorities here?

Naas north at the big ball. Needs 3 lanes all the way to the junction for the m9.

marno21

veryangryman wrote: »

Now that most major bottlenecks are cleared with a road to Dublin or other major city replacing it, it appears to me that our traffic bottlenecks are actually now on the bypasses themselves. In order...

Dunlettle and n40 cork
Naas M7
M50 Ballymun to Tallaght
Lucan and leixlip where M4 begins
After this we hit Adare and Claregalway in actual towns that need a bypass

Any thoughts on priorities here?

A lot of these are down to operational stupidity.

1. Dunkettle - caused by plonking a roundabout at the junction of 4 dual carriageways, one of which is 3 lane and one of which is the main ring road carrying 100k cars in parts. The result is what you get for that level of stupidity
2. The M7 from J9 to J11 is a 2 lane road in between a 3 lane road and a freeflow motorway-motorway merge. You effectively have 4 lanes - 2 lanes - 3 lanes. No wonder the 2 lanes are a mess.
3. Most M50 traffic at peak times (morning southbound and evening northbound). Removing M1 traffic from the M50 is the next step, e.g. Metro North.
4. Electrified Maynooth line and Metro etc are the solution here. Widening the M4 will have benefits outbound but not inbound.
5. Adare should be solved by 2022 and Claregalway solved when Galway goes back in time and solves its massive planning cockups before they occur. Claregalway is bypassed, if people don't want to use the new road that's their problem.

marno21

With regards to bottlenecks, not extreme volumes of commuters, there are a number that remain unsolved, most of which, surprise surprise, are in Munster.

Munster:

Adare (N21)
Macroom (N22)
Killarney (N22/N71/N72)
Newcastlwest (N21)
Abbeyfeale (N21)
Charleville (N20)
Mallow (N20/N72)
Killeagh (N25)
Castlemartyr (N25)
Cork North (N40)
Limerick North
Inishannon (N71)
Bandon (N71)
Tipperary Town (N24)
Clonmel (N24)
Dungarvan (N25)

Leinster:
New Ross (N25) - bypass under construction
Enniscorthy (N11) - bypass under construction
Wexford (N11/N25)
Mountmellick (N80)
Slane (N2)
Birr (N52/N62)

Connacht:
Galway (N6)
Charlestown (N17)
Moycullen (N59)
Carrick-on-Shannon (N4)
Castlebar (N5)
Ballinrobe (N84)

Ulster:
Letterkenny (N13/N14/N56)
Ballybofey/Stranorlar (N13/N15)
Lifford (N14/N15)
Virginia (N3)
Monaghan Town (N2)
Ardee (N2/N52)

AndyBoBandy

Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »

Naas north at the big ball. Needs 3 lanes all the way to the junction for the m9.

Thankfully it’s finally getting them

the_pen_turner

marno21 wrote: »

With regards to bottlenecks, not extreme volumes of commuters, there are a number that remain unsolved, most of which, surprise surprise, are in Munster.

Munster:

Adare (N21)
Macroom (N22)
Killarney (N22/N71/N72)
Newcastlwest (N21)
Abbeyfeale (N21)
Charleville (N20)
Mallow (N20/N72)
Killeagh (N25)
Castlemartyr (N25)
Cork North (N40)
Limerick North
Inishannon (N71)
Bandon (N71)
Tipperary Town (N24)
Clonmel (N24)
Dungarvan (N25)

Leinster:
New Ross (N25) - bypass under construction
Enniscorthy (N11) - bypass under construction
Wexford (N11/N25)
Mountmellick (N80)
Slane (N2)
Birr (N52/N62)

Connacht:
Galway (N6)
Charlestown (N17)
Moycullen (N59)
Carrick-on-Shannon (N4)
Castlebar (N5)
Ballinrobe (N84)

Ulster:
Letterkenny (N13/N14/N56)
Ballybofey/Stranorlar (N13/N15)
Lifford (N14/N15)
Virginia (N3)
Monaghan Town (N2)
Ardee (N2/N52)

I'm a bit confused by clonmel. there is a ring road around it.
if you compare that to thurles. clonmel is a brease to avoid. no matter where you are going in thurles you have a bottle neck

chicorytip

marno21 wrote:

With regards to bottlenecks, not extreme volumes of commuters, there are a number that remain unsolved, most of which, surprise surprise, are in Munster.

Diverting traffic away would sound the death knell for most of these small towns - in a commercial sense. Mountrath and Borris-in-Ossory post M7 are prime examples. Ireland simply does not have the traffic volumes to justify any further motorway construction.

zetalambda

veryangryman wrote: »

Now that most major bottlenecks are cleared with a road to Dublin or other major city replacing it, it appears to me that our traffic bottlenecks are actually now on the bypasses themselves. In order...

Dunlettle and n40 cork
Naas M7
M50 Ballymun to Tallaght
Lucan and leixlip where M4 begins
After this we hit Adare and Claregalway in actual towns that need a bypass

Any thoughts on priorities here?

If it's going on numbers, then if i'm correct, N40 should take priority?

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

Claregalway is bypassed, if people don't want to use the new road that's their problem.

Sorry but you can't call a road that's 11-12km away as the crow flies, a bypass, no matter how much you repeat that assertion.

The bypass of Claregalway needs to happen, if only for the residents.

Middle Man

chicorytip wrote: »

Diverting traffic away would sound the death knell for most of these small towns - in a commercial sense. Mountrath and Borris-in-Ossory post M7 are prime examples. Ireland simply does not have the traffic volumes to justify any further motorway construction.

I'm not so sure that many here would agree - the following motorways are certainly needed IMO...

M20 Cork to Limerick
M4 Mullingar to Longford
M11 Oilgate Bypass

veryangryman

Some do indeed require motorways but im basically talking about appropriate bypasses here. E.g Thurles would likely be ok with S2 for traffic volumes.

Saying that Claregalway is bypassed is like saying that Slane is.

AugustusMinimus

Douglas flyover is nearly as bad a bottleneck as the Dunkettle interchange. Badly needs to be widened to 3 lanes but the cost will be prohibitive.

pad199207

veryangryman wrote: »

Now that most major bottlenecks are cleared with a road to Dublin or other major city replacing it, it appears to me that our traffic bottlenecks are actually now on the bypasses themselves. In order...

Dunlettle and n40 cork
Naas M7
M50 Ballymun to Tallaght
Lucan and leixlip where M4 begins
After this we hit Adare and Claregalway in actual towns that need a bypass

Any thoughts on priorities here?

Definitely the Naas and Sallins Bypass Scheme is priority. This needs to get done. But in the end I don’t think 3 lanes will be enough.

The J Stands for Jay

pad199207 wrote: »

Definitely the Naas and Sallins Bypass Scheme is priority. This needs to get done. But in the end I don’t think 3 lanes will be enough.

3 lanes will be wasted, with everyone ignoring lane 1.

pad199207

McGaggs wrote: »

3 lanes will be wasted, with everyone ignoring lane 1.

The new interchanges and Sallins Bypass will be of huge benefit to Naas and Sallins. Yeah but your right the stupid driver behavior will still go on and on in this country.

Vittu

I live in Virginia, its bad in am, school runs and evening. Especially Friday.

The J Stands for Jay

pad199207 wrote: »

The new interchanges and Sallins Bypass will be of huge benefit to Naas and Sallins. Yeah but your right the stupid driver behavior will still go on and on in this country.

The design of the transition from 2 to 3 lanes doesn't help. Driving along in lane 1 and it suddenly becomes lane 2, no-one bothers moving to the correct lane.

kravmaga

veryangryman wrote: »

Now that most major bottlenecks are cleared with a road to Dublin or other major city replacing it, it appears to me that our traffic bottlenecks are actually now on the bypasses themselves. In order...

Dunlettle and n40 cork
Naas M7
M50 Ballymun to Tallaght
Lucan and leixlip where M4 begins
After this we hit Adare and Claregalway in actual towns that need a bypass

Any thoughts on priorities here?

I think this proposal of the M45 Dublin/Leinster Outer Orbital Motorway to totally bypass the M50 and link in with M7 needs to be looked at now as M50 is nearing capacity

http://www.irishmotorwayinfo.com/inex/roads/m45/m45.html

CeilingFly

kravmaga wrote: »

I think this proposal of the M45 Dublin/Leinster Outer Orbital Motorway to totally bypass the M50 and link in with M7 needs to be looked at now as M50 is nearing capacity

http://www.irishmotorwayinfo.com/inex/roads/m45/m45.html

100% agree - airport traffic and non Dublin traffic for south, southwest and west could avoid m50.

Doesn't even need a new Road number - simply extend the M9 as a drogheda to Waterford mway

road_high

There's a plethora of towns on National secondaries I'd properly bypass.
Take the N80, Carlow, Portlaoise would greatly benefit. Bunclody is another.
Birr, Roscrea, Thurles, Templemore on the N52.
Athy on the N78.
There's another few on the N25 and N24 crying out for bypasses. If money weren't an object I'd say there must be easily 2 dozen or more towns that benefit hugely from further or new bypasses.

the_pen_turner

if you look at Cashel . it was bypassed by the m8 motorway but has 3 on /off ramps .
people thought it would kill the town and that nobody would pull in .
in reality it does reduce the volume of traffic and I'm sure there are some people that would stop before but wont now.
but overall it is a great set up. there are no trucks or vans etc that are passing through. unfortunily slower tractors still have to go through because its a motorway but that's not a lot.
it allows the town to cater for tourists and people that have business there

what is killing these towns is all the traffic passing through . they aren't bringing in money to the town just cluttering it up.

veryangryman

kravmaga wrote: »

I think this proposal of the M45 Dublin/Leinster Outer Orbital Motorway to totally bypass the M50 and link in with M7 needs to be looked at now as M50 is nearing capacity

http://www.irishmotorwayinfo.com/inex/roads/m45/m45.html

Problem is...

M50 is being used by city dwellers/commuters to city and/or airport/portd.

An outer ring would not be used by many of these. Id be surprised if it took 10% of M50 traffic if built. The M50 gets packed during the commuting hours as people are going to/from where the work is.

Yes an M45 would help a little, but really the city needs to start supporting higher densities with (in this order)

1. High rise building
2. High speed rail (under any name)
3. Improved Motorway ring roads

I love Sean nos

Building more roads isn't going to fix congestion. It never has.

veryangryman

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Building more roads isn't going to fix congestion. It never has.

Moate?
Abbeyleix?

If you mean city congestion, then you may have a point. I would still argue that if enough were built properly and appropriate BRT and rail around them, we'd be laughing.

Cities only build to support today's problem, not tomorrows. The minute anyone sees that there's a faster way to get somewhere they want to go, they flock to that route, making it jammed also. It's still good that more capacity is catered for.

loyatemu

veryangryman wrote: »

Problem is...

M50 is being used by city dwellers/commuters to city and/or airport/portd.

An outer ring would not be used by many of these. Id be surprised if it took 10% of M50 traffic if built. The M50 gets packed during the commuting hours as people are going to/from where the work is.

Yes an M45 would help a little, but really the city needs to start supporting higher densities with (in this order)

1. High rise building
2. High speed rail (under any name)
3. Improved Motorway ring roads

Yes, M9 extension (or M45 or whatever) would be a waste of money - it wouldn't take much traffic off the M50; and anyone going from (say) Munster to the North currently would probably time their journey to avoid the M50 rush anyway.

The same goes for proposals for an outer ring road closer to Dublin - so much of the traffic on the M50 is going to locations around the M50, a new road further out would be of no use, but that new road would be a magnet for further car-dependent development making the whole problem worse in the long run.

marno21

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sorry but you can't call a road that's 11-12km away as the crow flies, a bypass, no matter how much you repeat that assertion.

The bypass of Claregalway needs to happen, if only for the residents.

I drove from Limerick to Ballyhaunis last week.

Seems fairly well bypassed to me

marno21

veryangryman wrote: »

Moate?
Abbeyleix?

If you mean city congestion, then you may have a point. I would still argue that if enough were built properly and appropriate BRT and rail around them, we'd be laughing.

Cities only build to support today's problem, not tomorrows. The minute anyone sees that there's a faster way to get somewhere they want to go, they flock to that route, making it jammed also. It's still good that more capacity is catered for.

Exactly.

Bypasses work great for Moate and Abbeyleix because 90% of the traffic had no business there to begin with. With Dublin, all the traffic is still going to be using the same old roads in the city centre or around the business parks no matter how close you build the motorways. Same with Cork, Limerick, Galway etc

veryangryman

marno21 wrote: »

I drove from Limerick to Ballyhaunis last week.

Seems fairly well bypassed to me

You also bypassed Dublin by that logic...

The majority going through C-G are en route to Galway city. If the current "bypass" was quicker, they would use it.

BillyBobBS

Building more roads for Dublin isn't going work. Invest in public transport and encourage more use of motorbikes. We also need massive investment in school bus transport.

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

Exactly.

Bypasses work great for Moate and Abbeyleix because 90% of the traffic had no business there to begin with. With Dublin, all the traffic is still going to be using the same old roads in the city centre or around the business parks no matter how close you build the motorways. Same with Cork, Limerick, Galway etc

Abbeyleix is still a bit of a bitch though nothing like what it used to be. They converted it over to extend the N77 (Kilkenny - Portlaoise road in effect). It can often take 5-10 mins to get through as the traffic volume is still significant. Plus you get a few toll dodgers on it too. I know it'll never happen, but it could easily justify a simple S2 bypass.

Idbatterim

how long would the outer m50 route have to be? metro north and Du are badly needed, after that an eastern bypass would be far more beneficial than some other outer ring road that will do nothing but create far more sprawl... the cost would be fairly staggering also I assume...

D Trent

marno21 wrote: »

I drove from Limerick to Ballyhaunis last week.

Seems fairly well bypassed to me

Dafuq were you doing in Ballyhaunis

marno21

veryangryman wrote: »

You also bypassed Dublin by that logic...

The majority going through C-G are en route to Galway city. If the current "bypass" was quicker, they would use it.

The legal national route from Limerick to Ballyhaunis (N18-N17-N83) never ran through Dublin. It did run through Claregalway and it no longer does. That seems to be a pretty accurate definition of the term bypass.

I love Sean nos

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Building more roads for Dublin isn't going work. Invest in public transport and encourage more use of motorbikes. We also need massive investment in school bus transport.

I disagree. What we need is bigger cars, carrying one person in each and more and more lanes for them to travel in. There isn't a traffic problem that can't be solved by adding another lane. It works everywhere.

veryangryman

marno21 wrote: »

The legal national route from Limerick to Ballyhaunis (N18-N17-N83) never ran through Dublin. It did run through Claregalway and it no longer does. That seems to be a pretty accurate definition of the term bypass.

One route is bypassed. Others (in current terms the N83 Tuam-Galway) are not. ClareGalway took far more Galway-bound traffic than N18-bound prior to this. Still does.

Reati

No one here pass through the daily carpark that is the M11/N11 merge just north of Bray.

That's a clusterf*ck of bad road design, poor forward planning and even worse drivers. Add in a drop of rain and my 25 minute journey home becomes a miserable hour and half to 2 hours of stop start.

prunudo

I'd add Kilmacanoge on the n11 as a bottle neck too. Okay it's a dual carriageway and not technically going through a village in the original sense but with the reduced speed limits, domestic entrances, on/off ramps and of course the garages there is an awful lot of merging traffic that is effecting the movement of mainline traffic.

seanin4711

Briarhill

Mantis Toboggan

veryangryman wrote: »

Some do indeed require motorways but im basically talking about appropriate bypasses here. E.g Thurles would likely be ok with S2 for traffic volumes.

Saying that Claregalway is bypassed is like saying that Slane is.

Thurles badly needs a second bridge rather than a bypass.

Reati

jvan wrote: »

I'd add Kilmacanoge on the n11 as a bottle neck too. Okay it's a dual carriageway and not technically going through a village in the original sense but with the reduced speed limits, domestic entrances, on/off ramps and of course the garages there is an awful lot of merging traffic that is effecting the movement of mainline traffic.

And they just resurfaced that whole road. They could have sorted that out with a lane divider and forcing traffic coming out of those garages etc up and over the offramp and back down onramp and up'd the speed to 80 or 100.

The way they do on the northbound side.

Corca Baiscinn

marno21 wrote: »

With regards to bottlenecks, not extreme volumes of commuters, there are a number that remain unsolved,

Connacht:
Galway (N6)
Charlestown (N17)
Moycullen (N59)
Carrick-on-Shannon (N4)
Castlebar (N5)
Ballinrobe (N84)

marno21 wrote: »

Bit puzzled by your inclusion of Charlestown in that iist. I've often been delayed in Carrick on Shannon for long periods due to floods and festivals but never in Charlestown. Mind you - have never been passing through when Mayo were playing in Croke Park!
Think Galway situation is similar to what other posters have said re why an outer bypass of the M 50 isn't the solution for Dublin. Most traffic has the city or environs as its destination so P & R and bus lanes/more buses more likely to work imo. Then there would be room on the existing routes for those passing through.

nilescraneo

Newlands Cross N7 to Red Cow and M50 south

Clonmel1000

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I'm a bit confused by clonmel. there is a ring road around it.
if you compare that to thurles. clonmel is a brease to avoid. no matter where you are going in thurles you have a bottle neck

Traffic at rush hour on the “by pass” is a nightmare morning and evening. Today a tailback of a mile at 5.15 pm heading east and west between the carrigeen and cashel road roundabout. Mornings are hectic too.

irishgrover

marno21 wrote:

The legal national route from Limerick to Ballyhaunis (N18-N17-N83) never ran through Dublin. It did run through Claregalway and it no longer does. That seems to be a pretty accurate definition of the term bypass.

In fairness you don't need to be a legal eagle or transport engineer to realise that the majority of people sitting in traffic in Claregalway don't really give a ****e about going to Limerick or ballyhaunis.....

Sorry marno, that bird don't fly.

Claregalway still needs a bypass.

You included Moycullen on your list, which does need to be bypassed.

Moycullen has an AADT of 7-8k

Claregalway, even after the motorway, has double that

You may dislike the idea of it being built, but you can't say it doesn't need to be built.

loyatemu

Reati wrote: »

No one here pass through the daily carpark that is the M11/N11 merge just north of Bray.

That's a clusterf*ck of bad road design, poor forward planning and even worse drivers. Add in a drop of rain and my 25 minute journey home becomes a miserable hour and half to 2 hours of stop start.

that's on the list of next projects. They'll be widening the road to 3 lanes as far as J7 and adding auxiliary feeder roads to allow some of the minor junctions to be closed.

Reati

loyatemu wrote: »

that's on the list of next projects. They'll be widening the road to 3 lanes as far as J7 and adding auxiliary feeder roads to allow some of the minor junctions to be closed.

I know there was a report stating it was needed but didn't know it was actually approved and in planning?

marno21

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry marno, that bird don't fly.

Claregalway still needs a bypass.

You included Moycullen on your list, which does need to be bypassed.

Moycullen has an AADT of 7-8k

Claregalway, even after the motorway, has double that

You may dislike the idea of it being built, but you can't say it doesn't need to be built.

7-8k west of Moycullen that has no option but to go through Moycullen in order to access the rest of the country (bar Westport and Leenaun). That's different to Claregalway traffic, most of which is commuters, which could use the M17 if they wanted. If the bridge in Claregalway collapsed tomorrow what route would they use?

I don't dislike the idea of it being built, it has been built. The M17 in conjunction with the Galway City Ring Road is the Claregalway bypass.

Nothing will solve the fact that:

1. There is no high quality access route to Galway city, which there will never be.
2. There are too many cars commuting at peak times into and out of the business parks in the eastern part of the city.

How will a Claregalway bypass solve anything? At present the traffic at the Tuam Road/N6 junction is almost as far back as Claregalway anyway, the bypass will just move the traffic that little bit closer to the mess further on.

JupiterKid

I'd agree with most of the towns/villages/locations on that list but the absolute priorities must be IMO:

Adare
Dunkettle
Virginia
Carrick On Shannon
Tipperary Town
Castlemartyr
M7 Naas to M9 diverge
Slane
Macroom
Newcastle West
Abbeyfeale

I agree with Marno21 - A Claregalway bypass won't make much of a difference to the atrocious mess that is traffic in Galway city. Poor planning and an utterly car dependent hinterland have been key factors in the current mess the city is in. The only thing that can properly improve the situation is a proper public transport system for the city.

Also, office employment needs to be concentrated in the city centre and not spread out along multiple business parks on the edge of the city. The housing affordability problem needs to be addressed in the city and people need to be told no, they can't build McMansions wherever they like in the city's extended hinterland. They are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

The only solution to Dublin's M50 mess is a proper high capacity metro system -Dart underground interconnector and residential densification within the existing built up area. In fact, all of our cities need this approach.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

JupiterKid

I would have added the towns along the N20 Limerick to Cork but I thought that it was too obvious.

Despite the tremendous progress that's been made in the past 25 years or so, there's still a lot more to do. Our road network was so poor and below par that only billions of euro and several decades of investment are required to bring it up to an acceptable standard.