Wider electrification of rail around Dublin

bk

Sam Russell wrote: »

Like I said elsewhere, Frequency, Reliability, and Speed are the important issues with train transport. Not sure how many goody points Dart get on each of those.

As a mass transit system?

Very poor on frequency, really not mass transit like at all, really needs to be at least every 10 minutes.

Reliability, ok to poor, could be improved.

Speed, ok, pretty normal for a service like this.

Sam Russell

bk wrote: »

As a mass transit system?

Very poor on frequency, really not mass transit like at all, really needs to be at least every 10 minutes.

Until they stop running multiple diesels behind each other south of GCD, there will be delays. If they start a ten minute service, the diesels will hold up the Darts unacceptably.

Reliability, ok to poor, could be improved.

Delays, delays, delays.

Speed, ok, pretty normal for a service like this.

They are now slower than when first introduced. There are delays in the GCD to Clontarf regularly. Northbound trains sitting outside GCD waiting, waiting.

Improvements.
They should have fast trains that skip stations. They should run shorter trains off peak. Most off peak trains would not be crowded with two coaches, but comfortably full with four coaches.

They could do live splitting of trains as they do in the UK 'Front four coaches are for Howth, last four coaches are for Malahide'. Or at Dun Laoghaire - 'Front four coaches next stop Bray and then Greystone - Last four coaches all stations to Bray'. That kind of thing.

They could also improve the revenue protection measures. There are a lot of people who do not pay.

bk

Sam Russell wrote: »

They are now slower than when first introduced. There are delays in the GCD to Clontarf regularly. Northbound trains sitting outside GCD waiting, waiting.

In fairness though, they also have FAR more capacity and carry far more people then they have ever in their history. Capacity is more important then speed.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Improvements.
They should have fast trains that skip stations. They should run shorter trains off peak. Most off peak trains would not be crowded with two coaches, but comfortably full with four coaches.

Maybe, but then your fast trains run into the back of the stopping service and everything ends up going no where.

After all this is why we have issues between non-stop Diesel commuters and DARTS and why is is proving so hard to get the 10 minute DARTS going.

Unless you are talking about full quad tracking of the lines so that stopping and non-stopping services can run side by side. That of course would be great, that is how the u and s-bahn work in Berlin, fully segregated. Unfortunately it would also be horribly expensive to do.

Sam Russell wrote: »

They should run shorter trains off peak. Most off peak trains would not be crowded with two coaches, but comfortably full with four coaches.

No benefit at all to doing this. It just makes things more complicated and expensive as you have to have staff to de/couple the trains. It is only a bit of extra electricity to run the longer trains, less then the staff costs involved and would likely just make things even less reliable.

Sam Russell wrote: »

They could do live splitting of trains as they do in the UK 'Front four coaches are for Howth, last four coaches are for Malahide'. Or at Dun Laoghaire - 'Front four coaches next stop Bray and then Greystone - Last four coaches all stations to Bray'. That kind of thing.

You could, but the thing is you are sort of complicating things, which is the opposite of what you want to do with a mass transit type of service. Generally you want to keep things nice and simple with mass transit.

Howth should simply be a shuttle service, same with Greystones frankly.

Sam Russell wrote: »

They could also improve the revenue protection measures. There are a lot of people who do not pay.

Sure, same across all public transport here. I've always said we should have a dedicated Transport Police service.

L1011

The biggest issue with intercity electrification herr, after all the stock being quite new or just refurbished, is that 1500v DC is less than ideal for long distances and has been retired from non commuter use most places.

Dual system locos are quite dear

loyatemu

Sam Russell wrote: »

They are now slower than when first introduced. There are delays in the GCD to Clontarf regularly. Northbound trains sitting outside GCD waiting, waiting.

Bray-Pearse was 30 mins when the Dart started, it's now 40 (with one extra stop) and will be longer again when the 10 minute frequency is introduced. Dwell times are terrible and the timetable is really padded.

LeinsterDub

loyatemu wrote: »

Bray-Pearse was 30 mins when the Dart started, it's now 40 (with one extra stop) and will be longer again when the 10 minute frequency is introduced. Dwell times are terrible and the timetable is really padded.

How much of that is down to congestion from mainline trains and how much is caused by level crossings?

loyatemu

LeinsterDub wrote: »

How much of that is down to congestion from mainline trains and how much is caused by level crossings?

the number of level crossings hasn't changed since 1983, the actual gates and signalling have presumably been upgraded.

as for mainline trains, there are a couple of extra Rosslare line trains per day, but there's no freight anymore so they probably cancel each other out. There are only 5 intercity trains each way per day anyway.

Sam Russell

It is the motorist that waits at level crossings - not trains. The gates close 2 mins before the train arrives - longer for some.

CatInABox

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is the motorist that waits at level crossings - not trains. The gates close 2 mins before the train arrives - longer for some.

Do trains have to slow down at all going through? I'd imagine it doesn't matter too much in Dublin anyway, but if all the level crossings were removed, would trains be able to travel faster?

L1011

CatInABox wrote: »

Do trains have to slow down at all going through? I'd imagine it doesn't matter too much in Dublin anyway, but if all the level crossings were removed, would trains be able to travel faster?

Many of them are directly beside stations so there can't be any speed impact.

LeinsterDub

Sam Russell wrote: »

It is the motorist that waits at level crossings - not trains. The gates close 2 mins before the train arrives - longer for some.

So why is this run 33% longer now?

CreativeSen

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So why is this run 33% longer now?

Because its one line that passes through Connolly/Tara/GCD that also caters for commuters to Maynooth, Drogheda and intercity to Sligo, Belfast and Rosslare. There are more Commuter and Intercity trains that need to be accommodated on the one dart line

roadmaster

If you diverted the commuter trains from longford,Maynooth, Drogheda to Docklands instead of them going to Connolly/Pearse would that help ease conjestion in Connolly to allow more darts on the mainline or would it just upset a lot of people

CreativeSen

roadmaster wrote: »

If you diverted the commuter trains from longford,Maynooth, Drogheda to Docklands instead of them going to Connolly/Pearse would that help ease conjestion in Connolly to allow more darts on the mainline or would it just upset a lot of people

They would be upset and with good reason, it would not be an integrated network. The point of stopping in Connolly/Tara/Pearse/GCD is that they integrate with the Dart and Luas (at Connolly only) allowing for movement around the city. Skipping Connolly and going to the Docklands just abandons people in a location with minimal bus routes and zero light rail/rail connections. It would only suit a small percentage of a huge population that happen to live in Longford, Drogheda, Maynooth and work on Sheriff St......

Stephen15

donvito99 wrote: »

Iarnrod Eireann have talked about wider electrification once the present fleet needs replacing post 2030.

Not good IMO if electrication was to take place existing diesel stock could be used elsewhere on the network to replace the older trains in operation around Cork and Limerick. Ireland and Albania are currently the only countries with any large scale electrication just goes to show you how far we lag behind.

beauf

The Connolly Train is 15 mins slower and its takes a good 5+ to get to the LUAS from the Connolly platform. Even when its not delayed waiting to enter Connolly which it is usually. Getting the Docklands train and walking back to Connolly is only 10 mins walk and will almost always be faster. Most people wouldn't realize this. You'll get to a Luas stop in about 3 mins from the docklands. The only exception is your train is going straight through to Pearse or GCD and you're getting off there. Even then you could get a Dublin Bike to Pearse and similar, in much the same time from the Docklands. I don't think the Drogheda trains can go into Docklands. I'm open to correction. But the direction of the lines would suggest they can't.

I think people think the Docklands is much further out than it actually is. But don't ruin it for the rest of us with further overcrowding.

roadmaster

beauf wrote: »

The Connolly Train is 15 mins slower and its takes a good 5+ to get to the LUAS from the Connolly platform. Even when its not delayed waiting to enter Connolly which it is usually. Getting the Docklands train and walking back to Connolly is only 10 mins walk and will almost always be faster. Most people wouldn't realize this. You'll get to a Luas stop in about 3 mins from the docklands. The only exception is your train is going straight through to Pearse or GCD and you're getting off there. Even then you could get a Dublin Bike to Pearse and similar, in much the same time from the Docklands. I don't think the Drogheda trains can go into Docklands. I'm open to correction. But the direction of the lines would suggest they can't.

I think people think the Docklands is much further out than it actually is. But don't ruin it for the rest of us with further overcrowding.

I think docklands is brilliant when I have to go in to the city for meeting I dump the car in dunboyne and I am in 30mins and just have to walk across the Liffey or I get the luas in to the city. In time dunboyne docklands I think would be a good dart route especially If they keep the park and ride free

MayoSalmon

CreativeSen wrote:

Skipping Connolly and going to the Docklands just abandons people in a location with minimal bus routes and zero light rail/rail connections

Luas is right outside the station in fairness