Perfect Swing ?

FixdePitchmark

Watching Spanish Masters

Garcia a major champion now, has a very unconventional swing.

Then you have a few other top golfer who didn't fit the perfect idea either.

Any swings you have loved - I think for me I always loved Faldo at his best but the game changer for me was the raw speed and power of Tiger as a young lad

Anyway - I was self taught and have struggled to accept that the swing I have is the one I have - I've tried to change it with some success (most guys above have changed too) , I've still a long swing , a bit disconnected, over the top and too fast.

But there is hope in that - you can hit the ball ok with a swing that isn't perfect. Better than ok - some have won majors .

ShivasIrons

You’re mistaking form with function. The perfect swing is the most functional one not the one that looks the best.

Your swing also can’t be too fast unless you’re hitting the ball too far. Fast means speed. Your swing maybe too quick but it’s rarely too fast.

By over the top, how much over the top? A swing path that’s 2 degrees out to in is over the top but that swing path would be very desirable.

FixdePitchmark

ShivasIrons wrote: »

You’re mistaking form with function. The perfect swing is the most functional one not the one that looks the best.

Your swing also can’t be too fast unless you’re hitting the ball too far. Fast means speed. Your swing maybe too quick but it’s rarely too fast.

By over the top, how much over the top? A swing path that’s 2 degrees out to in is over the top but that swing path would be very desirable.

A good swing is - 1.7 degree Club Path - but when I have bad days or lazy days, I'm - 6 - 7 . It is a constant battle to reduce that.

I didn't say anything about function and I'm saying it is interesting that people get results with all sorts of swings. Even at the top of the game.

I don't get the distinction of fast - speed - quick. I know you do a bit of work in this area - but they seems poor words as technically similar ?

By too fast - I have a high swing speed of 112 mph with driver - yes I accept this speed/fast is useful - but my tempo over the full swing makes the action very inconsistent and lacking repeat-ability. This combined with a disconnection of arms with body is a combination of anything can happen from a score of 72 to a 90+.

I still live with it and love it. But bloody frustrating.

fred funk }{

Tigers swing for me was just incredible. Like a coiled spring unwinding.

FixdePitchmark

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Tigers swing for me was just incredible. Like a coiled spring unwinding.

Love it.

So much speed - but looks in total control.

PARlance

Raphael Jaquelin probably has the most "perfect"ly smooth swing I've ever seen. It has made him a nice living but hasn't really done an awful lot. However, it's the type of swing that could earn him a fortune on the Senior Tour.

Keano

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

A good swing is - 1.7 degree Club Path - but when I have bad days or lazy days, I'm - 6 - 7 . It is a constant battle to reduce that.

I didn't say anything about function and I'm saying it is interesting that people get results with all sorts of swings. Even at the top of the game.

I don't get the distinction of fast - speed - quick. I know you do a bit of work in this area - but they seems poor words as technically similar ?

By too fast - I have a high swing speed of 112 mph with driver - yes I accept this speed/fast is useful - but my tempo over the full swing makes the action very inconsistent and lacking repeat-ability. This combined with a disconnection of arms with body is a combination of anything can happen from a score of 72 to a 90+.

I still live with it and love it. But bloody frustrating.

Read and article many years ago go that argued that all the speed in the world is fine and you in essence can never swing fast enough. However, it’s tempo that’s the killer for most ametuers. That’s the hardest part to get consistent.

tommypepper

A few years back i 'decided' i would be a better golfer if my swing 'looked' better and was more 'similar' to a modern conventional swing. What followed was a few wasted years as I really didn't have a clue what I wanted to achieve or how to achieve it.

For the past year my only focus has been tempo and strike and my long isn't as long but my average is better and straighter. ie one 260 yard carry every 10 drives vs 240 yard carries every 6/10 drives.

I'm a better golfer since I restrained my urge to take a 'big swipe' at it. I've also learned a bit more about where i should be striking it on the driver face as opposed to assuming if I take a monstrous hit at it it will go further no matter where i impact the face.

mike12

If you wound all those swings on they well be very close to identical at impact.

Swing speed is something that you either have or haven't to add additional speed is one of the hardest things.
When learning you should be hitting it as hard as possible without loosing posture or balance.

As amateurs the most we do is make tweaks to what we first learned, I see the juniors in my club and they have had great coaching and all have a almost picture perfect swing.

Most are now into single figures as well.

cellosid

Voted the best swing on the European Tour by his peers.

He is a keen student of swing mechanics, .......has a largely self taught swing and is now Coach to some Tour Pros when not competing.

Rikand

Freddy Couples.

Just so smooth - a joy to watch

fred funk }{

Freddie's swing is nice. Not overly impressed with Rock's.

rooney30

Rock the best swing on tour , really ? If it is then his short game must really stink the joint out

Montgolfier

Are swings supposed to be perfect? Thought impact is all that matters. It's not a feckin fashion show!

valoren

Adam Scott's swing is considered the most admired one on tour I believe. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, he modeled that swing on Woods' swing from 2000.
For me I've always been an admirer of Oosthuizen's swing.

ThunderCat

I've always liked Justin Rose's swing. And going way back, Byron Nelson had a lovely swing too.

PARlance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnT8iY4Xqoo

rooney30

The esthetics of the swing is what draws most people.
Mcilroys does it for me . Scott a close second
I like Luke Donald's from a timing perspective , beautiful rhythm
I like the simplicity of spieths swing
Ernie els , what can you say

Ugliest swing Jim furyk hands down

backspin.

I like Adam Scott's and Justin Rose's swings. Justin makes it look very simple.

BigChap1759

I’d agree Scott and Rose probably have the best looking swings on tour but impact is king as was mentioned above - just look at Furyk, one of the best drivers and ballstrikers in the last 30 years

Rikand

I love Jim furyks swing. Keeps club head outside the hands right to the top and when he begins his descent he's right *in the slot* the whole way down.

Peter kostas does an analysis of his posture on a slowmo up on youtube and its magic to see just how perfect his spine angle stays right through the shot.

Check it out. Furyks swing is a great lesson in mechanics

prawnsambo

Rikand wrote: »

I love Jim furyks swing. Keeps club head outside the hands right to the top and when he begins his descent he's right *in the slot* the whole way down.

Peter kostas does an analysis of his posture on a slowmo up on youtube and its magic to see just how perfect his spine angle stays right through the shot.

Check it out. Furyks swing is a great lesson in mechanics

This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHDGq8os1GQ

Edit: Actually this one is also very good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTuTrpWCZhU

Dublin Spur

Freddy Couples - end of debate

valoren

I love Furyk's swing as well. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Notice that from hip level through impact all pro swings , Furyk's included, are practically the same. They have to be to square the club face consistently.

Sure it isn't as aesthetically pleasing as some swings but Furyk is an example of what golf is actually all about in the final summation, your score. He has enjoyed a very lucrative career and has a major to his name with that swing.

If I could have a swing that I could trust that helped me score but made me look like 'an octopus trying to chop wood inside a phone booth'* I'd take it 10 times out of 10.

*Gary McCord and Feherty describing Furyk's swing.

FixdePitchmark

lads. I get the whole impact thing.

But Furyks swing is rotten.

benny79

Agree totally.. how it works is beyond me!

Rikand

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

lads. I get the whole impact thing.

But Furyks swing is rotten.

People say he has an awful swing, but his swing is textbook. Its his body movement which makes it look so wierd.

Lets take a look at the back swing first of all.



First of all, top screenshot - As he takes his hands back, when the head of the club and his hands are in parallel, they represent a "perfect" line straight down his target line. Look at his feet. If you draw two lines out, one along his toes and one down the shaft of the club and point them into the distance, they will point to the same target always, no matter how far into the distance you are looking.

Second screenshot then shoes his club position at the top of his backswing and once again toes/club head, completely perpendicular to each other and once again, the toes and the shaft are paralell, so you can imagine the shaft as an infinite line into the distance and his toes, they are heading to the same place.

So many people, myself included, take the club back way inside or way outside and when we get to the top, the shaft is pointing way right or way left and then there's a whole lot of making up that needs to be done. Not so with Furyk, everything is perfectly on plane!



Now lets look at the down swing - Once he begins his descent looking at the bottom screenshot, if you take a line out from the top of the shaft and point it at the ground, it will point directly at the ball. Moving to the top screenshot, a little further down in the swing, again take the same line and again it will point straight at the ball. textbook!

Why his swing looks so horrific, his body turn - you can see how much he has already thrown his body forward. When he makes contact with the ball, his belt buckle is already pointing straight at the target. Thats where he generates his power. His body is like a coiled spring and the coiling moves laterally rather than vertically as with most other golfers. Golfers with *beautiful* swings.

I wouldnt want to move my body in the same was as Furyk, but I definitely wouldnt mind my swing to look like his

ShivasIrons

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

lads.  I get the whole impact thing.

But Furyks swing is rotten.

If you think Furyk's swing is rotten, you don't get the whole impact thing at all.

FixdePitchmark

ShivasIrons wrote: »

If you think Furyk's swing is rotten, you don't get the whole impact thing at all.

Your the one who said there is form and function - I agree. Jim has a legend career - but from thread above you can see aesthetics of a golfer is something people enjoy - the same names come up.

I do understand the impact thing.

Dayor Knight

I think David Feherty compared Fury's swing to an octopus in a phone box. Funny man. (no doubt I'll be corrected shortly by someone saying "nah what actually said was....")! :-)

The Rape of Lucretia

Nobody knows what a good swing is.
All they discuss is cosmetics and style.

Furyk and Boom Boom are virtually identical in their ranking of how well they have played golf compared to the general golf playing population, and even among a very tiny subset of worlds best golfers. Yet people can say Freddy has a great swing and Jim's is faulty. It is nonsense.
As if people were saying Hamilton is going to win the F1 because his car is painted silver, and silver is faster than red.

The search for the perfect swing is a very interesting topic - but the surface hasnt even been scratched in truly inderstanding it. Instead, people talk cosmetics at best, and bullshît otherwise.

mike12

Even DJ's bowed wrist, every teaching Pro in the world would have said it was a no-no, now they think it's fine.
There are good looking and ugly swing rather than perfect swings.
A good putting stroke is more important, Rory is the perfect example.

backspin.

Some horrible swings coming on stream now in the PGA. Daniel Berger's swing is one of them.

valoren

I would define a perfect swing as a repeating one that produces an incredibly consistent ball flight. It is the result (the ball flight) that defines the process (the swing). The flight on the ball is the feedback you need to work with.

Hogan and Moe Norman are regarded as being the best ball strikers of their era. Even Hogan himself admitted that in any tournament he would only produce 4 or 5 'perfect' swings, that he won because his misses were more manageable than the rest of the field as he developed, refined and repeated a power fade swing to rid himself of a big missing gremlin hook that almost made him quit the game for good. Standing on the 18th fairway at Augusta for example Hogan would simply know he would fade the ball into the green. There was simply no way he was going left. The saying is that you eliminate one side of the course with a repeating ball flight. Moe Norman was regarded as a freakishly straight hitter. His swing certainly didn't look great but it was brutally effective and more importantly repeated for him under pressure.

So it's down to a consistent ball flight. Colin Montgomerie played a fade. He would aim down the left and right as rain he would curve his drives back into the fairway time after time. He didn't faff around trying to hit draws. He won all those money titles because of that consistency. Lee Trevino simply tried to hit the damn ball as straight as possible figuring that if he happened to go a bit left or right he would be ok. If you can stand over the ball in a pressure situation and be 100% confident of where it will go (although it might not!), then you have a perfect swing for you.

So a perfect swing is one that you are confident will repeat for you with a consistent ball flight.