econmics of organic without prices

lalababa

Am interested in hearing from organic farmers of any hue, who have either gone organic or seriously recherched going organic.
Whether it is as financially rewarding as conventional farming if you STILL ONLY get convention prices?
If less inputs and less production is as good as more inputs and more production?
Many thanks.

blue5000

Any particular enterprises? Tillage yields in organic would be fairly poor I reckon, look up John Pawsey on youtube. I can't see it adding up on average sized Irish farms anyway at conventional prices.

Don't know about milk, but beef from an extensive suckler system would work IMO.

lalababa

quote="blue5000;105022871"]Any particular enterprises? Tillage yields in organic would be fairly poor I reckon, look up John Pawsey on youtube. I can't see it adding up on average sized Irish farms anyway at conventional prices.

Don't know about milk, but beef from an extensive suckler system would work IMO.[/quote]

Any type of farming. Why do you think a suckler system would work? What do you mean by extensive.

blue5000

Extensive=low stocking rate.

PeterCasey

lalababa wrote: »

Am interested in hearing from organic farmers of any hue, who have either gone organic or seriously recherched going organic.
Whether it is as financially rewarding as conventional farming if you STILL ONLY get convention prices?
If less inputs and less production is as good as more inputs and more production?
Many thanks.

I would not go there with the tillage I do a lot of contracting I was called in this year to look after one hundred acres of organic crops with an in law of mine it takes years to build up your cover crops etc he had none of this done I spent a lot of man hours every month until harvest time towards my own crops got a very bad return.

orchard farm

Organic here in north west over 200acres 30 sucklers,extencive system good dept payment very little differance to way i was farming or could farm due to marginal hill land etc so its a goer here

eoinmk2

Seriously considering it here, but the last time I enquired about it with the department I was told that it was fully subscribed and it wouldn't open to new applicants for a while. on decent land here in kilkenny, recently got out of sucklers, now rear calves and buy stores to finish. was still considering converting even though we wouldnt get any payments, but decided it wouldnt be worth the extra work, and we were unsure as to what system to work (and was kind of hoping it might open soon anyway). to be honest with how little return there is in beef i dont think it would be too far away in terms of returns (but haven't done actual figures). a problem we have here is very little clover in the grass (a lot older grass) so was thinking if we could get some clover in and get rid of some weeds before we converted it would help a lot.

I feel like you have to buy into farming in general to do it and enjoy it. If you are the kind of person who hates weeds, and likes getting out with the ferto spreader then it might not suit, you'd just be frustrated all the time. You have to accept you are going to be less productive.

Haven't enquired about it opening to new entrants in a while, anyone hear anything?

blue5000

eoinmk2 wrote: »

Seriously considering it here, but the last time I enquired about it with the department I was told that it was fully subscribed and it wouldn't open to new applicants for a while. on decent land here in kilkenny, recently got out of sucklers, now rear calves and buy stores to finish. was still considering converting even though we wouldnt get any payments, but decided it wouldnt be worth the extra work, and we were unsure as to what system to work (and was kind of hoping it might open soon anyway). to be honest with how little return there is in beef i dont think it would be too far away in terms of returns (but haven't done actual figures). a problem we have here is very little clover in the grass (a lot older grass) so was thinking if we could get some clover in and get rid of some weeds before we converted it would help a lot.

I feel like you have to buy into farming in general to do it and enjoy it. If you are the kind of person who hates weeds, and likes getting out with the ferto spreader then it might not suit, you'd just be frustrated all the time. You have to accept you are going to be less productive.

Haven't enquired about it opening to new entrants in a while, anyone hear anything?

I was asking at the ploughing match. It won't be 2018 anyway. Possibly 2020, you will have lots of time to get some re-seeding done. But there is a form you can sign to testify you haven't used any pesticides etc. in I think, the previous 3 years, this would fastrack your organic status.

tractorporn

blue5000 wrote:

Any particular enterprises? Tillage yields in organic would be fairly poor I reckon, look up John Pawsey on youtube. I can't see it adding up on average sized Irish farms anyway at conventional prices.

Blue is right it wouldn't add up accepting conventional prices after following organic principles except for live sales of livestock as there is no price premiums. Weanlings generally are the same price it's only finished cattle that get a premium.

blue5000 wrote:

But there is a form you can sign to testify you haven't used any pesticides etc. in I think, the previous 3 years, this would fastrack your organic status.

There is an affidavit you sign to get a reduced conversion period but that only applies to hort, pigs and poultry for cattle, sheep and tillage It's a mandatory two year conversion.

kk.man

I know a guy who converted to beef and some tillage a few years back. The place was in an awful state with weeds etc. He poured a lot of money into it. He farmed AA sucklers.

He gave up. Be very careful it's all good in theory but not in practice.

orchard farm

Funny thing about it,people talk bout less stock but i and my organic neighbours had to increase stock,farm has never been as productive,sell weanings same price as conventinal but mh stock wouldnt be creep fed like before so takin bit less but ofs makes up