jobpath letter.

Icyseanfitz

Hi, just trying to figure out how i got stuck with this letter in my door this morning. I am on jobseekers allowence while studying part time in a springboard course (2-3 days a week). I also work part time (generally 2-3 days a week as well but it can vary from week to week). On top of this i recently moved home to help my father take care of the farm on a daily basis, zero income for me on this, he is after getting diagnosed with a heart condition so i am trying to help out.

I dont know how i am expected to take part in this scheme unless they want me to give up either work or college. I rang tuas nua up today and said as much. I got a " jesus arnt you a busy man :mad:" and told that a note would be made and id probably get another letter again in a few weeks.

Will my jobseekers get cut off if i dont go to these bloody things?

Pronto63

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Hi, just trying to figure out how i got stuck with this letter in my door this morning. I am on jobseekers allowence while studying part time in a springboard course (2-3 days a week). I also work part time (generally 2-3 days a week as well but it can vary from week to week). On top of this i recently moved home to help my father take care of the farm on a daily basis, zero income for me on this, he is after getting diagnosed with a heart condition so i am trying to help out.

I dont know how i am expected to take part in this scheme unless they want me to give up either work or college. I rang tuas nua up today and said as much. I got a " jesus arnt you a busy man :mad:" and told that a note would be made and id probably get another letter again in a few weeks.

Will my jobseekers get cut off if i dont go to these bloody things?

There are 3 underlying conditions that you must satisfy to qualify for any jobseekers payment.

You must be:
1. Fit for work.
2. Available for work.
3. Genuinely seeking work.

When I say work, that's full time work!

I don't know if you are looking for work but it sounds like you're not available for full time work.

Maybe look at applying for carers allowance as you're looking after your dad.

Icyseanfitz

So theve had no bother with me working at my current part time job for the last 11 years but if some mickey mouse CE scheme is thrown at me I have to take it and give up my current "secure" job? I was also made fill up a part time btea form (whats the point in that if im just on standard jobseekers allowance) for my springboard course which i just started but I should also be expected to throw that out the window now that the great opportunity of jobpath has come to me?

Carers won't work, my father isn't in need of a carer, he just can't do the heavy lifting/pulling expected on a farm.

Cactusmania

It's silly the way they have set up some of these schemes. As far as I know, the time you spend on Springboard doesn't count as a break in your claim.
Same for BTEA. So, in theory, a person could do a 4 year honors degree through BTEA and if you got a record of their social welfare payments, those
4 years would show up as being on jobseeker's. Then, after they finish this, there's nothing to stop them receiving a letter to do JobPath. It makes no sense.

Nobody seems to have a good word to say about JobPath. I wish you all the best

I did a springboard course a few years ago and if I recall I had to let the DSP know and it was basically like being a mature student with the form I had to fill in. I'd get on to the DSP if I were you and try not to engage Seetec at all.

An anecdotal conversation I had with someone a while a ago about seetec needing a constant stream of people through the doors to be viable and them likely pressuring the department to send them more and the current unemployment rate how they can can justify their operation here still. I'd love to know how long they have a contract with the DSP. Likely 5-10 years longer than needs be at a price 10 times what it should be :mad:

NinetyTwoTeam

Jobpath isn't a CE scheme, it's a thing where you go in and they basically assess your CV, make you do silly questionnaires to make sure you have a positive attitude,then give you sheets to fill in what jobs you looked for and you meet with a useless 'employment advisor' for about 20-30 mins to discuss how your jobseeking is going. I go once a month but some places do once a fortnight. They're supposed to link you into full time jobs as well, so they say, but they haven't done that for me yet in 5 months because there are no jobs in this town!

They don't give a monkeys about part time work or farms, they want you off the dole 100%. But they do have to work around your part time job schedule and make your appointment on non work days.

Not surprised they said 'Aren't you a busy man?' they have a really crappy attitude towards their 'clients', they basically treat you like a kid being kept after school, make you do tedious tasks as your 'punishment' for being on the dole. The only ones who get a job out of Jobpath are the ones running it as far as I can see. It'll probably get scrapped eventually just like Jobbridge did. And then we'll get Jobladder or some other daft thing.

NinetyTwoTeam

Also just adding: you'll still have to do Jobpath if you're on a Springboard course, unfortunately it will not exclude you from it. Nothing can save you from it if you are in receipt of dole at all.

Interestingly, if you are on Jobpath, you are then excluded from doing a CE scheme for the 12 months you are on Jobpath. Because they can't get the 10k commission they get for placing you in a job from you doing a CE scheme because it's not full time, permanent, private employer, etc.

Basically you are now their product, and they sell you to employers who want to only pay minimum wage.

Icyseanfitz

What an absolute sham! So is there anyway to not deal with them, I have a plan, I know what I want, what courses i need done to get where I want to work in 2 years and I'm working hard towards it.

Icyseanfitz

Deleted User wrote: »

I did a springboard course a few years ago and if I recall I had to let the DSP know and it was basically like being a mature student with the form I had to fill in. I'd get on to the DSP if I were you and try not to engage Seetec at all.

An anecdotal conversation I had with someone a while a ago about seetec needing a constant stream of people through the doors to be viable and them likely pressuring the department to send them more and the current unemployment rate how they can can justify their operation here still. I'd love to know how long they have a contract with the DSP. Likely 5-10 years longer than needs be at a price 10 times what it should be :mad:

yeah i let the DSP know i had started this course, brought them in proof of my course and filled out a part time education form inside with them only 2 weeks ago. That why this is baffling to me, they know i am trying to better myself while working part time and yet i get this crap (that is clearly what jobpath is) in the door.

Icyseanfitz

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

yeah i let the DSP know i had started this course, brought them in proof of my course and filled out a part time education form inside with them only 2 weeks ago. That why this is baffling to me, they know i am trying to better myself while working part time and yet i get this crap (that is clearly what jobpath is) in the door.

I did springboard in 2012 I think I was 2 nights a week , then ... obviously no Seetec vampires in them days but basically the springboard coarse would have exempted you from the being available for work criteria like being a mature student would, you had to tell DSP you had accpeted a place than that was that for the duration of the course.

What did DPS say regards your participation in both Seetec and Springboard? I have a vague nation in the back of my mind that once you are with seetec it bars you from any other scheme be it CE , Springboard or third level. You signed up for springboard first so I'd be telling seetec to do one if possible with the advice of a welfare officer first.

Icyseanfitz

i was told the spring board course would be no problem and that my jobseekers payment would go ahead as always. I even have a letter stating as much. Im heading into the DSP tomorrow to see what they have to say about jobpath. Another text today with another appointment for a different time tomorrow. Rang them up to be told as this will be my third missed appointment my payment will be cut! the date for the first letter i got last week is tomorrow! I explained that the only day i can attend is on a thursday so "Kevin" rang my local turas nua and has me in this thursday at 4pm. They really seem to be in a rush to get me all signed up dont they!

Whats worse is i have two big assignments to get done by the end of the week so the last thing i want to be doing is wasting time arsing around with turas nua.

wmpdd3

Once your sign up, you are theirs. Avoid if at all possible.

Icyseanfitz

I'm trying just don't know how

Sephiroth_dude

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Once your sign up, you are theirs. Avoid if at all possible.

How do you do that? I'm currently doing a course I love and before I started it in september my old case worker informed me when it was finished I would be with this crowd when its finished in December, I want too do another course that starts middle of January, is there anything I can do?

Icyseanfitz

also whats the legality re data protection and the fact that they have my private information (pps number, DoB, address etc.), i havnt signed anything with them yet, and they are a private company.

wmpdd3

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

How do you do that? I'm currently doing a course I love and before I started it in september my old case worker informed me when it was finished I would be with this crowd when its finished in December, I want too do another course that starts middle of January, is there anything I can do?

No, in my experience, once you sign with them, that's it for 12 months. The key is not to sign with them. I've even seen one person sign of for 2 weeks (working part time) , but as soon as they signed back on, they returned to jobpath.... And lost their chance to do a course.

Icyseanfitz

wmpdd3 wrote: »

No, in my experience, once you sign with them, that's it for 12 months. The key is not to sign with them. I've even seen one person sign of for 2 weeks (working part time) , but as soon as they signed back on, they returned to jobpath.... And lost their chance to do a course.

but its not like we are really given a choice is it, sign with them or lose your payment.

I've my first meeting this evening and il be trying my hardest to avoid them, ive a follow on course (certificate level 7 springboard) that starts next September. Im pretty sure being on jobpath will stop me from being able to do it :mad:.

Icyseanfitz

had the meeting yesterday anyway. Went to the DSP first and was told that its basically out of their hands the second jobpath are on the scene. Went to Turas Nua and got a lady called Katie. First thing i asked was whether being on Jobpath would affect me taking on any courses (in particular the follow on to the course im on) next September, She told me that it certainly wouldnt. I think the fact that i have a plan and i know what im doing and where the jobs will be helped the situation a lot. I still have to turn up for a meeting every 2 weeks, which she explained will be basically a small chat to see how i am doing, most of the stuff they would do wont have any bearing on me considering i am in education.
all in all it went ok, its a pity someone who might need the service didnt get my place tbh though! ive no need of help with cv's or interview skills (told her as much) and that could benefit someone i suppose. Hopefully it stays painless!

wmpdd3

So you did end up signing up with them?

I agree that you are stuck, as long as you are receiving a payment you have no choice but to sign with them.

Try get in writing that you will still be able to do the springboard course.

Sephiroth_dude

Finished a programming course I loved on the 5th so had to sign back on but have signed up for another course (android apps) that starts on the 29th of January, got a letter from turas nua today, so rang them up and explained the situation and that I have a letter saying the course is going ahead on the 29th, she agreed reluctantly to send me another appointment for the following week as I'll be signing back off next week provided the course date isnt pushed out again, hopefully it will all work out.

Cactusmania

Are the programming and android apps courses both full-time?
Reason I ask is that your claim is closed on full-time courses, but not
on part-time ones, which in theory should make it less likely that you
will be called up to Turas Nua :cool:

Sephiroth_dude

Cactusmania wrote: »

Are the programming and android apps courses both full-time?
Reason I ask is that your claim is closed on full-time courses, but not
on part-time ones, which in theory should make it less likely that you
will be called up to Turas Nua :cool:

Full time, I signed back on last week until I start the new one which is why they got in contact I guess.

Cactusmania

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Full time, I signed back on last week until I start the new one which is why they got in contact I guess.

How long were these courses? It seems strange that you
are actively doing something and they are targeting you
to join them.Maybe people really are picked on a random
basis for it. I'm sure there is plenty of people who have
done nothing for years, and they haven't been contacted.

Stonedpilot

All you need to know on Seetec, I very through Report I have to say.
Don't mind folk whinging about UnitedPeople it's all factual and backed up


http://www.unitedpeople.ie/download/jobpath-a-unitedpeople-report/

Stonedpilot

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

Also just adding: you'll still have to do Jobpath if you're on a Springboard course, unfortunately it will not exclude you from it. Nothing can save you from it if you are in receipt of dole at all.

Interestingly, if you are on Jobpath, you are then excluded from doing a CE scheme for the 12 months you are on Jobpath. Because they can't get the 10k commission they get for placing you in a job from you doing a CE scheme because it's not full time, permanent, private employer, etc.

Basically you are now their product, and they sell you to employers who want to only pay minimum wage.

This is all true, all to get the unemployment rate 'Down' Ie forcing people into minimum wage numbers with a British private company that has a multi million euro contract so the shower like Varadkar and it's brainwashing machine RTE tell naive folk that unemployment has "cough" gone down.

I have worked on a report on the extraordinary corruption within jobpath. People interested in speaking to me re Seetec/Jobpath/Turas Nua PM me

Happy to help.

Sephiroth_dude

Cactusmania wrote: »

How long were these courses? It seems strange that you
are actively doing something and they are targeting you
to join them.Maybe people really are picked on a random
basis for it. I'm sure there is plenty of people who have
done nothing for years, and they haven't been contacted.

September to January and this new one is end of January to July, got a new appointment date today for Feb 6th, hopefully my course will have started by then and won't be delayed again.

whippet

Stonedpilot wrote: »

I have worked on a report on the extraordinary corruption within jobpath. People interested in speaking to me re Seetec/Jobpath/Turas Nua PM me

Happy to help.

Is this a report by Unitedpeople.ie by any chance?

whippet

Stonedpilot wrote: »

All you need to know on Seetec, I very through Report I have to say.
Don't mind folk whinging about UnitedPeople it's all factual and backed up


http://www.unitedpeople.ie/download/jobpath-a-unitedpeople-report/

written by a walter mitty type individual who has zero intention of ever being gainfully employed. Written with a massive amount of bias and impossible to decipher English !

jmcgill16

The advice in it to attend meetings but refuse to sign anything is by all accounts 100% accurate though. I've heard multiple reports of people doing that and them just being dropped from Seetac/Turas Nua with no penalty. By attending any meetings, but just not signing over any rights to Seetac, its not refusing to engage so your JSA can't be penalized. But at the same time Seetac can't deal with you.

Stonedpilot

whippet wrote: »

written by a walter mitty type individual who has zero intention of ever being gainfully employed. Written with a massive amount of bias and impossible to decipher English !

Utter garbage. It's written in plain English a 12 year old could read and it is very well researched. Your reading capabilities are alarming if you can't even read it!. Can you show the parts you were incapable of reading?.
Apologies if you are dyslexic.

How do you know the person who wrote it doesn't want to be gainfully employed?. I have yet to meet someone EVER who would choose the dole over a decent job despite the incessant crap on this forum of dole lifers and people on the dole going on 10 holidays a year. It's nauseating all this nonsense.

Why the ad hominem attacks, they are kinda pathetic and derailing of a thread when someone genuinely wants advice.

splinter65

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Utter garbage. It's written in plain English a 12 year old could read and it is very well researched. Your reading capabilities are alarming if you can't even read it!. Can you show the parts you were incapable of reading?.
Apologies if you are dyslexic.

How do you know the person who wrote it doesn't want to be gainfully employed?. I have yet to meet someone EVER who would choose the dole over a decent job despite the incessant crap on this forum of dole lifers and people on the dole going on 10 holidays a year. It's nauseating all this nonsense.

Why the ad hominem attacks, they are kinda pathetic and derailing of a thread when someone genuinely wants advice.

100% Walter Mitty.
I’ve met him and his grip on reality disappeared long ago.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057766783/1/#post104166259

whippet

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Utter garbage. It's written in plain English a 12 year old could read and it is very well researched. Your reading capabilities are alarming if you can't even read it!. Can you show the parts you were incapable of reading?.
Apologies if you are dyslexic.

How do you know the person who wrote it doesn't want to be gainfully employed?. I have yet to meet someone EVER who would choose the dole over a decent job despite the incessant crap on this forum of dole lifers and people on the dole going on 10 holidays a year. It's nauseating all this nonsense.

Why the ad hominem attacks, they are kinda pathetic and derailing of a thread when someone genuinely wants advice.

It is relevant to this thread ... the author of that ‘report’ has dedicated a huge portion of his life to maintaining his welfare lifestyle. He chooses unemployment as social welfare will provide for his six children better than he can despite all the qualifications and experience he claims to have. He fails to engage in any form of debate .. he will delete and block anyone who does not agree with him.

Job path isn’t ideal but when you have a cohort of people who will refuse to look for work something needs to be done

Stonedpilot

whippet wrote: »

It is relevant to this thread ... the author of that ‘report’ has dedicated a huge portion of his life to maintaining his welfare lifestyle. He chooses unemployment as social welfare will provide for his six children better than he can despite all the qualifications and experience he claims to have. He fails to engage in any form of debate .. he will delete and block anyone who does not agree with him.

Job path isn’t ideal but when you have a cohort of people who will refuse to look for work something needs to be done

Dya know what's amazing about posts like this? Is the irony when you quote he won't debate. Neither will you!.

You just play the man and not the ball. Point blank refuse to acknowledge the finding of the report!.

Incessantly play the man. I couldn't care less about his lifestyle. None of my business and of yours either.
I mean half the inventors who created the luxuries of the western World were madmen, do you refuse to use electricity because some of it's earliest inventors like Otto von Guericke were nuts or you didn't agree with their lifestyles?. Of course not.
So why ignore the report?. It's findings are sound.



His report is good, and well researched. Why not debate that instead of personal attacks on a total stranger to you?????

splinter65

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Dya know what's amazing about posts like this? Is the irony when you quote he won't debate. Neither will you!.

You just play the man and not the ball. Point blank refuse to acknowledge the finding of the report!.

Incessantly play the man. I couldn't care less about his lifestyle. None of my business and of yours either.
I mean half the inventors who created the luxuries of the western World were madmen, do you refuse to use electricity because some of it's earliest inventors like Otto von Guericke were nuts or you didn't agree with their lifestyles?. Of course not.
So why ignore the report?. It's findings are sound.



His report is good, and well researched. Why not debate that instead of personal attacks on a total stranger to you?????

I’ll debate his report with you.

humberklog

That report by Jeff Rudd may well be right, it might be well written, it might help people who are having problems dealing with jobpath/Seetec/taurus nua(?).

But because of the author's history it should come with a hefty warning for any reader unfamiliar with Jeff Rudd. The author has a long history of spreading mis-information, outright lies and defamations in order to advance his own personal political agenda.

If the report helps then fair enough but do take the information in it with a large pinch of salt. The author is not to be trusted.

whippet

When reading any report you need to consider the author and any possible bias ...

The reality is that we are coming close to what is universally accepted as ‘Full Employment’ in the economy and we need some mechanics to separate the ‘can’t work’ from the ‘won’t work’. Job path is far from perfect but better than nothing.

Many examples give by this reports author in social media about people having issues with JobPath are examples of people who are not actively looking for work - for many reasons and are aggrieved when Job Seekers allowance may be cut. The irony in this is nuts.

Stonedpilot

humberklog wrote: »

That report by Jeff Rudd may well be right, it might be well written, it might help people who are having problems dealing with jobpath/Seetec/taurus nua(?).

But because of the author's history it should come with a hefty warning for any reader unfamiliar with Jeff Rudd. The author has a long history of spreading mis-information, outright lies and defamations in order to advance his own personal political agenda.

If the report helps then fair enough but do take the information in it with a large pinch of salt. The author is not to be trusted.

Political agenda eh?. Ah yes I thought I seen him on TV the other day in the Dail claiming €40,000 expenses.:pac:

If that's his motive Hasn't done him a whole lot of good has it?.

Max Prophet

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

How do you do that? I'm currently doing a course I love and before I started it in september my old case worker informed me when it was finished I would be with this crowd when its finished in December, I want too do another course that starts middle of January, is there anything I can do?

Eh maybe try and get a job and pay your own way? Unemployment is at historic lows....

humberklog

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Political agenda eh?. Ah yes I thought I seen him on TV the other day in the Dail claiming €40,000 expenses.:pac:

If that's his motive Hasn't done him a whole lot of good has it?.

No Stonedpilot it hasn't done him a whole lot of good.
But more importantly it has done many people who have been duped by his antics harm.

And that's all I'm saying- the author is not to be trusted. He has fooled many decent people over the years.
So anything he writes that gets public attention should come with a warning.

Owryan

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Political agenda eh?. Ah yes I thought I seen him on TV the other day in the Dail claiming €40,000 expenses.:pac:

If that's his motive Hasn't done him a whole lot of good has it?.

He may not be claiming expenses in the dail but they at least are doing something and are not simply sitting at home and posting crap online all day.
Jeff is living in a state supplied home, with subsidised rent, is claiming welfare for himself, wife and children, has been accessing state funded education and is highly insulted at the idea he might get a job. What he wants is to continue on his lifestyle while making no contribution to society.

He is a parasite who exploits the vulnerable to score cheap points off the government and to justify his miserable existance. He decided to run for election, made an ass of himself so threw a hissy and went home. Even his own party had enough of him!!!!.

As for the report being well written and coherent, its so full of crap even a toilet wouldnt swallow it.

Oranage2

humberklog wrote: »

No Stonedpilot it hasn't done him a whole lot of good.
But more importantly it has done many people who have been duped by his antics harm.

And that's all I'm saying- the author is not to be trusted. He has fooled many decent people over the years.
So anything he writes that gets public attention should come with a warning.

400 downloads, I wouldn't be shaking in my boots quite yet. Also what is the fascination with this Paul Rudd guy.

Owryan

Oranage2 wrote: »

400 downloads, I wouldn't be shaking in my boots quite yet. Also what it the fascination with this Paul Rudd guy.

Assume you mean Jeff Rudd, he is a reminder that there are people in society who shouldn't be let play with knives or have access to he internet.

Sephiroth_dude

Max Prophet wrote: »

Eh maybe try and get a job and pay your own way? Unemployment is at historic lows....

Good input , well done

Rumpy Pumpy

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Utter garbage. It's written in plain English a 12 year old could read and it is very well researched. Your reading capabilities are alarming if you can't even read it!. Can you show the parts you were incapable of reading?.
Apologies if you are dyslexic.

How do you know the person who wrote it doesn't want to be gainfully employed?. I have yet to meet someone EVER who would choose the dole over a decent job despite the incessant crap on this forum of dole lifers and people on the dole going on 10 holidays a year. It's nauseating all this nonsense.

Why the ad hominem attacks, they are kinda pathetic and derailing of a thread when someone genuinely wants advice.

It’s written in a bizarre form of the English language known as Ruddish, and is full of waffle, hysteria, and bizarre interpretations of law.

It’s about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Oranage2

Owryan wrote: »

Assume you mean Jeff Rudd, he is a reminder that there are people in society who shouldn't be let play with knives or have access to he internet.

I don't think he's hurting anyone banging away on his keyboard all day, I get the hypocrisy of complaining about a back to work scheme when that person has 6 kids being supported because their father doesn't want to work or at least find a job that will pay him more than his welfare payments. But saying things like his children will be eating the cheap chicken nuggets is a bit low.

splinter65

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Good input , well done

There’s only so much state supported education and training you can avail of before they expect you to put the training/education to use in an actual paid position. I think that’s fair.

Owryan

Oranage2 wrote: »

I don't think he's hurting anyone banging away on his keyboard all day, I get the hypocrisy of complaining about a back to work scheme when that person has 6 kids being supported because their father doesn't want to work or at least find a job that will pay him more than his welfare payments. But saying things like his children will be eating the cheap chicken nuggets is a bit low.

He has taken people's private stories of hurt or grief and twisted them to suit his own agenda.

As for the chicken nuggets, how much of the welfare he received to support his family has he used to push his private agenda and ego trip?

Sephiroth_dude

splinter65 wrote: »

There’s only so much state supported education and training you can avail of before they expect you to put the training/education to use in an actual paid position. I think that’s fair.

Em well that's the plan ya know, the course I'm waiting to do now continues on more or less from the first one.

Stonedpilot

Anyways to the OP contact me have met many who have been hounded with these private blood thristy companies like Seetec in my previous work DM me if you wish.There is folk out there will offer nothing but derision and vitriol to anyone who questions Jobpath or finds themselves unemployed.
It can be depressing and they don't care less about how isolating and depressing it can be. Same folk will hound someone over unemployment will post shyte supporting Pieta House on Facebook. The hypocrisy is staggering. Never have they looked at themselves for a second. Keep in mind.


Never mind the Jeremy Kyle wannabe's here.

whippet

@stonepilot are you offering advice on jobpath ? Legal or support ? If so it would be nice if you let people know what your organization / qualifications are to offer people advice are

Army_of_One

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Anyways to the OP contact me have met many who have been hounded with these private blood thristy companies like Seetec in my previous work DM me if you wish.There is folk out there will offer nothing but derision and vitriol to anyone who questions Jobpath or finds themselves unemployed.
It can be depressing and they don't care less about how isolating and depressing it can be. Same folk will hound someone over unemployment will post shyte supporting Pieta House on Facebook. The hypocrisy is staggering. Never have they looked at themselves for a second. Keep in mind.

Jeff Ruud/Biggins is a deluded fool and you're a bigger idiot for swallowing his bolloxology , let alone peddling it.

He sits on his hole using resources and contributes to nothing.