Man jailed for collecting dead mother's pension

Jon_459

Headline on RTE News website today:

Man jailed for collecting dead mother's pension for 16 years

Jaysus - 16 years in jail - that's harsh I thought - then I read it and saw he was sentenced to 18 months. He'd been collecting the pension for 16 years!

Zebra3

Sure she could hardly collect it herself.

myshirt

Zebra3 wrote: »

Sure she could hardly collect it herself.

Yeah op, discriminate much?

Seems harsh.

Edit, nevermind. It isn't 16 years.

henryporter

OP posts without reading the article - 18 months in the clink for 16 years social welfare fraud - with remission etc, it should be about half that. Not a bad return really, plus he gets to be minded for the time he's in lock up.

edireland

About time something was done.

Jays but she went fierce quick in the end tho

737max

what happens to the 35 euro a week council house for the time that he is in Gaol.

ToddyDoody

How do they know she was dead?

begbysback

Quite sad really, we should have alternative methods of punishment in cases like this. There must have been some previous, if not the jail seems excessive.

granturismo

henryporter wrote: »

OP posts without reading the article
...

Poster posts without reading OP. OP's post isnt edited and correctly lists sentence as 18 months. OP points out misleading headline from RTE.

737max

Jail is not excessive

McMurphy

edireland wrote: »

About time something was done.

Yeah they've only this year got around to punishing people they catch defrauding the system.

endacl

Deleted User wrote: »

Jays but she went fierce quick in the end tho

All she wanted was a bitta cheeeeese. Terrible sad terrible sad.

begbysback

737max wrote: »

Jail is not excessive

Actually it seems he did have precious record, though 67 and half blind, for a crime that ended in 2013 of his own accord - unlikely to offend again, alternative method of punishment would be more suitable

frag420

So who is going to collect it now?

737max

I don't agree that jail is an innapropriate method of punishing him. That money which he took could have gone to oncology services or toward treating members of society with addiction problems or soemthing else. He gained while others dependent on the care of society suffered on without.

737max

frag420 wrote: »

So who is going to collect it now?

I assume the daughter who is a grown adult will continue to reside in the €35 per week council house in Walkistown which was "passed on" from the deceased lady to her son.

begbysback

737max wrote: »

I assume the daughter who is a grown adult will continue to reside in the €35 per week council house in Walkistown which was "passed on" from the deceased lady to her son.

:rolleyes:

sbsquarepants

I suppose I could do it, if he's stuck?

BorneTobyWilde

Will he still have to pay it back now that he got a prison sentence.

737max

737max wrote: »

I assume the daughter who is a grown adult will continue to reside in the €35 per week council house in Walkistown which was "passed on" from the deceased lady to her son.

Where did it say they were social-housing tenants?

NinjaTruncs

Meanwhile a woman who pretty much did something similar gets a suspended sentence.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/pensioner-who-stole-more-than-200k-in-benefits-from-exchequer-avoids-jail-809700.html

Oops69

And still not a single banker in jail .

737max

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Where did it say they were social-housing tenants?

From the report from last week. Do a search in the internet using your seach engine of choice and you'll find it.

SEPT 23 1989

the fool made the mistake of not racking up a few hundred convictions

Sleeper12

begbysback wrote:

Quite sad really, we should have alternative methods of punishment in cases like this. There must have been some previous, if not the jail seems excessive.

He stole 150k euro. How is jail not a suitable punishment?
He only got 18 months & only serves 75 percent of his time. The most he can serve is 13.5 months

It he was pick pocketing every week for 16 years & caught you'd expect him to get a much tougher sentence.

minikin

It’s what she woulda wanted...

He made the mistake of not running a company with the courts service as a client.

Ultimate Seduction

Mad how the dept took 16 years to realise the woman was dead

Agricola

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Mad how the dept took 16 years to realise the woman was dead

Yeah, you'd think when her 113th birthday rolled around, suspicions would have been raised

737max

There is software in the HSE and in other state departments which records when someone dies but because departments/offices don't communicate it doesn't get used.
Although this fraud started 16 years ago so I don't expect it would have caught this situation and most of these old fraudsters will only get caught when their parents are ready to receive a letter of congratulation from the President on reaching their centenary.

A bit ridiculous.. I'm a fan of the idea that prison is there to rehabilitate you.

How many mothers does this guy have?

partyguinness

People,

In a calculated manner he deliberately stole €150k of our tax money. If any of us stole £150k from an employer or shop etc we would do 5-10 years. Women with kids expect a suspended sentence.

No sympathy from Partyguinness.

partyguinness

Oops69 wrote: »

And still not a single banker in jail .

What exactly would you jail a banker for?

partyguinness

Deleted User wrote: »

A bit ridiculous.. I'm a fan of the idea that prison is there to rehabilitate you.

How many mothers does this guy have?

Prisons do not rehabiltiate. Most offenders re offend.

B.A._Baracus

At the risk of getting shouted at on here.... Meh there are worse things that a person can do in life. Note tho: 16 years doing it is too much!

I expect the usual response of "I pay my taxes and that person is frauding the system!" but as an OAP I know says... He worked his life paying taxes and he'd rather his family continue to get it for a while before having to stop.

But for those who can't hit the quote button fast enough it should be noted that you can't do that these days. OAP's are required to go to their local garda station every 6 months to show id and sign a form to say nothing has changed. In actual fact it's a form to see if you're still alive. Also the picture social services card has put a stop to it.

Donnielighto

If he serves 9 months then at a rate of 220 a week over the 16 years then that's over 10k per month of jail, over 20k/m if he gets remission and is out in 9

737max

partyguinness wrote: »

Prisons do not rehabiltiate. Most offenders re offend.

They're very good for making cautionary tales of people who defraud their fellow citizens in the same way as Scolds would be elevated in a cage or thieves put in stocks.
preventing a 150,000 loss to the social welfare systems becoming a 30 billion loss to social welfare ssytem by thousands of fraudsters is important.

I'm more worried about the other clients of the welfare system who can't be served by the welfare system because all the moment has leaked away to fraudsters like this man.

Donnielighto

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

At the risk of getting shouted at on here.... Meh there are worse things that a person can do in life.

I expect the usual response of "I pay my taxes and that person is frauding the system!" but as an OAP I know says... He worked his life paying taxes and he'd rather his family continue to get it for a while before having to stop.

But for those who can't hit the quote button fast enough it should be noted that you can't do that these days. OAP's are required to go to their local garda station every 6 months to show id and sign a form to say nothing has changed. In actual fact it's a form to see if you're still alive. Also the picture social services card has put a stop to it.

Having worked doesn't give you the right to break the laugh and rob off others, whataboutery is not a valid response the lad is morally and legally in the wrong.

partyguinness

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

At the risk of getting shouted at on here.... Meh there are worse things that a person can do in life.

I expect the usual response of "I pay my taxes and that person is frauding the system!" but as an OAP I know says... He worked his life paying taxes and he'd rather his family continue to get it for a while before having to stop.

But for those who can't hit the quote button fast enough it should be noted that you can't do that these days. OAP's are required to go to their local garda station every 6 months to show id and sign a form to say nothing has changed. In actual fact it's a form to see if you're still alive. Also the picture social services card has put a stop to it.

There you go...I'll press the quote button.

That attitude is exactly what is wrong with the country and the older generation. This 'Sure what harm is he doing. It's not like he killed anyone. Sure poor aul Mike worked hard all his life' attitude.

The type of attitude we saw from politicians, planners etc etc for decades. This sense of entitlement- sure steal €150k. It's only a white collar crime- no harm done. No victims.

That is the type of gombeen little me fein attitude we need to excise from the country's mentality.

But the fact he got away with it for 16 years is a damning indictment on the system at the time.

B.A._Baracus

Donnielighto wrote: »

Having worked doesn't give you the right to break the laugh and rob off others, whataboutery is not a valid response the lad is morally and legally in the wrong.

I know and I do agree.
Life isn't fair tho. We could talk about doing the right things, having good morals etc. But there is "the ideal world" and the real world if you get me.

There is a con to most things in life. Some can fraud the system by claiming false rent allowance for example while another business owner can fiddle his books to barely pay any tax.... Same story just different characters.

TheRiverman

Agricola wrote: »

Yeah, you'd think when her 113th birthday rolled around, suspicions would have been raised

You beat me to that reply,I was going to put 110th birthday:)

partyguinness

737max wrote: »

They're very good for making cautionary tales of people who defraud their fellow citizens in the same way as Scolds would be elevated in a cage or thieves put in stocks.
preventing a 150,000 loss to the social welfare systems becoming a 30 billion loss to social welfare ssytem by thousands of fraudsters is important.

I'm more worried about the other clients of the welfare system who can't be served by the welfare system because all the moment has leaked away to fraudsters like this man.

Don't get me wrong. I am glad he is jailed- I was just saying that prisons do not equate re rehabilitation.

Idbatterim

absolute joke. Suspicions werent raised that there was a 113 year old claiming a pension? how doesnt she have to show up herself? furthermore, placing someone who has committed this crime into prison, when there are dangerous scum roaming the streets... :rolleyes:

we have nowhere near enough prison spaces, I wouldnt be locking someone up for this offence, at least not for too long, maybe 1-2 prison sentence, community service and let him pay back a percentage of his income...

737max

For a 64 year old man with an average of about 13 years left in his life I care little about rehabilitation.
If this was a 19 year old with another 60 years in him I'd care about rehabilitiation but only in the interests of society in general.

Prisons do serve a purpose.

partyguinness

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I know and I do agree.
Life isn't fair tho. We could talk about doing the right things, having good morals etc. But there is "the ideal world" and the real world if you get me.

There is a con to most things in life. Some can fraud the system by claiming false rent allowance for example while another business owner can fiddle his books to barely pay any tax.... Same story just different characters.

Yes there is the ideal world and the real world but just resigned acceptance should not be the response or attitude.

B.A._Baracus

partyguinness wrote: »

There you go...I'll press the quote button.

That attitude is exactly what is wrong with the country and the older generation. This 'Sure what harm is he doing. It's not like he killed anyone. Sure poor aul Mike worked hard all his life' attitude.

The type of attitude we saw from politicians, planners etc etc for decades. This sense of entitlement- sure steal €150k. It's only a white collar crime- no harm done. No victims.

That is the type of gombeen little me fein attitude we need to excise from the country's mentality.

But the fact he got away with it for 16 years is a damning indictment on the system at the time.

I know you won't agree with this... But spoiler warning: all that stuff that happened "before" is gonna happen time and time again.

valoren

Just shows the respect he has for his own mother and her memory for me.
Exploited her death to line his own pocket fraudulently. Grade A asshole.

rangler1

Again the Public (dis)Service has let down the tax payers.....we deserve better.
Was nobody policing it.....sure it's only taxpayers money..I know who I'd put in Jail

Masala

Some huge inconsistencies in the application of sentences....maybe his council should cite this case from yesterday in their appeal

http://www.thejournal.ie/pensioner-stole-avoids-jail-3643797-Oct2017/

partyguinness

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I know you won't agree with this... But spoiler warning: all that stuff that happened "before" is gonna happen time and time again.

I am not entirely sure what you are saying I won't agree with but yes social welfare fraud happens all the time and will continue as long as people can get away with it. But my point is that we as a society should not just turn a blind eye and accept it as part of everyday life. Yes it goes on all the time but it should be rightly punished.

It's called corruption.