Why so many diesel-engined cars for sale?

colbarr

I'm looking to upgrade my car in the new year and I've been looking up used car websites for the past few weeks on and off to get an idea of whats out there. (I know it'll more than likely be different cars come the new year.) I've been filtering the search to only include saloon cars, 2010 and newer and under €10000. What I've noticed is, is that there seems to be an majority in favour of diesel cars for sale in that bracket. Is there any particular reason for this?

HonalD

They are currently banned from some urban areas and the UK is moving towards banning them so there's a glut of them on the market.

colbarr

Good to know, I'll add a new filter for fuel type then so!

colm_mcm

HonalD wrote: »

They are currently banned from some urban areas and the UK is moving towards banning them so there's a glut of them on the market.

That's a tad misleading.

Ash.J.Williams

Irish tax system has forced people to buy diesel cars and now the first generation are up for sale?

Ash.J.Williams

colbarr wrote: »

Good to know, I'll add a new filter for fuel type then so!

I'd look into that statement first

elperello

In the sector you are looking at the majority of sales new were diesels therefore the second hand market reflects that.

Nonoperational

HonalD wrote: »

They are currently banned from some urban areas and the UK is moving towards banning them so there's a glut of them on the market.

It’s gas how people post complete nonsense here as fact.

Kenny Logins

"Cheap tax" from 2008 and everybody went mad for daysel.

CiniO

HonalD wrote: »

They are currently banned from some urban areas and the UK is moving towards banning them so there's a glut of them on the market.

Can you point even one urban area where they are banned?

gctest50

CiniO wrote: »

Can you point even one urban area where they are banned?

Not yet - soon though



https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone

grogi

colbarr wrote: »

What I've noticed is, is that there seems to be an majority in favour of diesel cars for sale in that bracket. Is there any particular reason for this?

Since 2008, the tax regime in Ireland heavily favours diesel cars.

Gorgeousgeorge

market saturated with ex fleet and company cars all of which are diesel. and the post 2008 cheap tax

dil999

HonalD wrote: »

They are currently banned from some urban areas and the UK is moving towards banning them so there's a glut of them on the market.

Are you sure its not just you that's banned from some urban areas?

Its also unlikely the OP will be driving their car in central London

grogi

gctest50 wrote: »

Not yet - soon though



https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone

ULEZ is very very very central London, not really relevant to majority of motorist.

R.O.R

gctest50 wrote: »

Not yet - soon though



https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone

I'm not quite sure we were looking at the same thing, as this link says that all vehicles except Ultra Low Emissions vehicles, will have to pay an additional charge to drive in the centre of London (same area as the London congestion charges apply to).

That is a very long way from Diesels being banned.

grogi

R.O.R wrote: »

I'm not quite sure we were looking at the same thing, as this link says that all vehicles except Ultra Low Emissions vehicles, will have to pay an additional charge to drive in the centre of London (same area as the London congestion charges apply to).

That is a very long way from Diesels being banned.

Unfortunately it only one journalist looking for a headline that is needed to start a mass-hysteria.

qhe0i9zvfgdou8

colbarr wrote:

Good to know, I'll add a new filter for fuel type then so!

Hope you're only looking for a small car because family sized cars from that era are predominately diesel. That's due to the tax incentive introduced in 2008 and nothing to do with diesels been banned.

grogi

Kenny Logins wrote: »

"Cheap tax" from 2008 and everybody went mad for daysel.

Cheap motortax, cheaper VRT and ability to deduct VAT for diesel. It would be mad to buy petrols for any kind of fleet, regardless of mileage they do.

elperello

If you buy a good diesel sub 10k now you should get value out of it before things get silly.
The biggest worry will be the revision of motor tax probably in 2019.

grogi

elperello wrote: »

If you buy a good diesel sub 10k now you should get value out of it before things get silly.
The biggest worry will be the revision of motor tax probably in 2019.

Any change made will be made only to newly registered cars. No government is suicidal...

bazz26

You got to love some people's predictions - wild hysteria generated from saying they were going to screw diesel cars in this years budget. Nothing came of that so now same people are moving to predict the same in 2019. I suppose the law of averages state they are bound to be right one of these years.

Reality is that taxing motorists is a steady stream of revenue, won't matter what fuel or energy propels vehicles, they will continue to keep that steady stream flowing as that revenue goes towards the cost of the country's infrastructure. They will just shift the taxes to whatever becomes the popular/trendy choice at the time. People are deluded if they think they will be driving around in electric vehicles in years to come and cost them next to nothing to run.

elperello

bazz26 wrote: »

You got to love some people's predictions - wild hysteria generated from saying they were going to screw diesel cars in this years budget. Nothing came of that so now same people are moving to predict the same in 2019. I suppose the law of averages state they are bound to be right one of these years.

Reality is that taxing motorists is a steady stream of revenue, won't matter what fuel or energy propels vehicles, they will continue to keep that steady stream flowing as that revenue goes towards the cost of the country's infrastructure. They will just shift the taxes to whatever becomes the popular/trendy choice at the time. People are deluded if they think they will be driving around in electric vehicles in years to come and cost them next to nothing to run.

I didn't mention the budget at all.

I was referring to this -

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-resilient-energy-union-with-a-climate-change-policy/file-co2-emissions-standards-for-cars-and-vans

While it refers to new vehicles I just wouldn't trust our legislators not to do something silly for similar reasons you outline in your second paragraph.

Mr.H

Didn't the UK already mention that no new diesel or petrol cars will be built from 2030?

Hardly hysteria

Dravokivich

Mr.H wrote: »

Didn't the UK already mention that no new diesel or petrol cars will be built from 2030?

Hardly hysteria

Still not relevant to second hand market for 7 year old cars, especially in Ireland.

grogi

Mr.H wrote: »

Didn't the UK already mention that no new diesel or petrol cars will be built from 2030?

Hardly hysteria

Not only it is 12 years from now, it also applies to both petrol and diesel new cars. Nothing that should influence used diesel prices today.

If you buy new diesel now, it will be close to worthless in 12 years. Not because it is 2030, but because the car is already at its end of life.

Tails142

If you look at sales figures for new cars which is available on the SIMI website you will see that the majority of cars sold were diesel, petrol engine sales fell off a cliff when the new tax system came in. Small petrol engines are making a come back in the last few years, but the reason why there are so few petrols in the secondhand market is because there were so few sold in the first place.

CalamariFritti

The reason why there are so many diesel cars for sale is there are so many diesel cars around. It basically reflects the diesel market share. It’s not like they all want to get rid of them.

bazz26

elperello wrote: »

I didn't mention the budget at all.

I was referring to this -

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-resilient-energy-union-with-a-climate-change-policy/file-co2-emissions-standards-for-cars-and-vans

While it refers to new vehicles I just wouldn't trust our legislators not to do something silly for similar reasons you outline in your second paragraph.

I wasn't singling you out in particular.

Mr.H wrote: »

Didn't the UK already mention that no new diesel or petrol cars will be built from 2030?

Hardly hysteria

2030 is still a long way off and a lot can change between now and then so making lofty claims is easy but at the end of the day the political and economical landscapes do change which influence what is done. I've no doubt that the ICE is coming to the end of it's lifespan but there is going to no switch over overnight.

Remember that during the 1960s and 1970s when everyone was buzzing about the space race they claimed we would be living on the moon by the new millennium.

Shefwedfan

Ireland loves diesel. We buy them at a rate of 3:1....one of the highest rates of diesel purchases in Europe.

See graph here....http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Table_1_New_passenger_cars_by_type_of_engine_fuel,_2015.png

Ireland 3:1 and we are one of the smallest countries.

Uk nearly the same for diesel v petrol and they are a small bit bigger than us....

Reason for this is number of things...I could go into them but then daysel brigade would be onto me

Just have a read of a couple of threads on here and you will see the completely unrealistic ltr/100km people think they are getting out of there diesel......seems to be a lot of people in Ireland who are completely blind to anything but a diesel engine.....

Diesel is supposed to be used for long distance driving but I have seen recommendations to people who drive 20km a day to buy a diesel because it is cheap :-)

U_Fig

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ireland loves diesel. We buy them at a rate of 3:1....one of the highest rates of diesel purchases in Europe.

See graph here....http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Table_1_New_passenger_cars_by_type_of_engine_fuel,_2015.png

Ireland 3:1 and we are one of the smallest countries.

Uk nearly the same for diesel v petrol and they are a small bit bigger than us....

Reason for this is number of things...I could go into them but then daysel brigade would be onto me

Just have a read of a couple of threads on here and you will see the completely unrealistic ltr/100km people think they are getting out of there diesel......seems to be a lot of people in Ireland who are completely blind to anything but a diesel engine.....

Diesel is supposed to be used for long distance driving but I have seen recommendations to people who drive 20km a day to buy a diesel because it is cheap :-)

It's quite frustrating at the moment looking for a used car, almost 80% of used cars 2012+ on done deal are diesel, I do not do enough millage really for to get the real benefit of Diesel but i am currently looking to buy a new car and will probably end up buying a diesel due to the fact that it is so hard to find a petrol car in the spec I want that is in good nick and not overpriced.

Other option is to buy from the UK and the hassle that goes along with it

ShadowHearth

You would think that irish dealers would cop on by now and see that demand for petrol cars increasing.
Yes, people will throw in to my face sales figures where diesel outsells petrol by a lot, but how many people were forced in to buying new diesel, because there is no petrol choices. Well there is, smallest petrol engine in the lowest spec possible or high performance sport/hot hatch version cars for 40-60k. Thats it.

Geniune dont give a crap about diesels and how people love them, you do whatever you want with your money, I am not your mum, dad, wife etc. All I want is a choice to buy a petrol car.

gctest50

grogi wrote: »

ULEZ is very very very central London, not really relevant to majority of motorist.

It will be soon

Copenhagen's mayor wants to introduce the (city,diesel ) ban by 1 January 2019.

"It's not a human right to pollute the air for others "

Germany’s environment minister has warned that software updates alone will not be enough to avoid inner-city diesel bans as early as next year.

grogi

gctest50 wrote: »

It will be soon

Germany’s environment minister has warned that software updates alone will not be enough to avoid inner-city diesel bans as early as next year.

Majority of Germany urban centres have had ban for older diesels (and petrols) since 2008 (Umweltzone).

What the minister is saying is that VW cars affected by the emission scandal might not be allowed in, despite passing Euro norm and having proper sticker.

gctest50

grogi wrote: »

Majority of Germany urban centres have had ban for older diesels (and petrols) since 2008 (Umweltzone).

.....

2008 ????? :eek: - almost 10 years lagging behind


there's even an app for that :

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.avpptr.umweltzone


and it's open-source

https://bitbucket.org/tbsprs/umweltzone





( under GPL v3 http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.txt )

colm_mcm

We aren't Germany, we're not Japan. We aren't Copenhagen. Other countries do lots of things we don't do and we do lots of things other countries don't do. We are governed by parties who know that any sort of diesel ban will be the end of them.

Diesel will go when electric car technology offers an alternative, this talk of diesel bans is purely speculation.

gctest50

They'll start checking DPFs :

More than a thousand diesel cars have been caught without an essential pollution filter that traps deadly particles, according to government figures.


https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/17/diesel-particulate-filter-removal-air-pollution-department-for-transport

selectamatic

gctest50 wrote: »

They'll start checking DPFs :

They may well start checking for things that look like a dpf. Likewise they'll eventually start insisting on things that look like catalytic converters be in situ on diesel cars exhaust systems.

However they won't be testing the functionality of either of these as it would require a complete reworking of the current system. Where as a simple eyeball test can be written into the testing criteria at the stroke of a pen.

This coupled with the fact that diesels will never be tested for emissions like petrols because it's an open secret that nearly every manufacturer pulled their figures from lab conditions that will never be possible to replicate in the real world or nct centre hence nearly every diesel car would most likely fail if the test was based on the maunfacturers quoted figures.

Patser

grogi wrote: »

Not only it is 12 years from now, it also applies to both petrol and diesel new cars. Nothing that should influence used diesel prices today.

If you buy new diesel now, it will be close to worthless in 12 years. Not because it is 2030, but because the car is already at its end of life.

It's actually 2040 the ban comes in, so it's over 22 years before your car is worth less..... Because of all that lovely residual value all 22 year old cars normally have.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/25/britain-to-ban-sale-of-all-diesel-and-petrol-cars-and-vans-from-2040

Lantus

Ash.J.Williams wrote:

Irish tax system has forced people to buy diesel cars and now the first generation are up for sale?

It incentivised that fuel through lower tax and fuel making it economically a better proposition. In turn manufacturers fed that demand by offering more diesels than petrol.

The shift is towards petrol, hybrid and electric. Only tonight lexus ran an advert declaring diesel is dead. They only do hybrids now apparently.

grogi

Lantus wrote: »

It incentivised that fuel through lower tax and fuel making it economically a better proposition. In turn manufacturers fed that demand by offering more diesels than petrol.

The shift is towards petrol, hybrid and electric. Only tonight lexus ran an advert declaring diesel is dead. They only do hybrids now apparently.

Toyota Corp. is not investing into diesel R&D at all.

Lexus IS isn't sold with diesels at least since 2014. Other models similarly...

NyOmnishambles

ShadowHearth wrote: »

You would think that irish dealers would cop on by now and see that demand for petrol cars increasing.
Yes, people will throw in to my face sales figures where diesel outsells petrol by a lot, but how many people were forced in to buying new diesel, because there is no petrol choices. Well there is, smallest petrol engine in the lowest spec possible or high performance sport/hot hatch version cars for 40-60k. Thats it.

Geniune dont give a crap about diesels and how people love them, you do whatever you want with your money, I am not your mum, dad, wife etc. All I want is a choice to buy a petrol car.

You would think the dealers would be more open to choice alright

I am thinking about buying a new car for the first time, from an affordability point of view I will be looking at a pre-reg rather than speccing from scratch

At every turn they are pushing a diesel which I don't do the mileage to warrant but if I want a new car it looks like I will have no real choice and seeing as everything second hand is also diesel I have no real choice there either

On a side not the dealers all seem focused on pushing model with the most appallingly basic spec which to me seems to defeat the purpose of a new car
What is the point of a new car that is missing features that have been available since the 1990's?

Caliden

grogi wrote: »

Toyota Corp. is not investing into diesel R&D at all.

Lexus IS isn't sold with diesels at least since 2014. Other models similarly...

Honda are only releasing a diesel version of the new civic in March 2018, almost 1 year after the petrol versions.

dil999

NyOmnishambles wrote: »

You would think the dealers would be more open to choice alright

I am thinking about buying a new car for the first time, from an affordability point of view I will be looking at a pre-reg rather than speccing from scratch

At every turn they are pushing a diesel which I don't do the mileage to warrant but if I want a new car it looks like I will have no real choice and seeing as everything second hand is also diesel I have no real choice there either

On a side not the dealers all seem focused on pushing model with the most appallingly basic spec which to me seems to defeat the purpose of a new car
What is the point of a new car that is missing features that have been available since the 1990's?

I could be wrong, but i think the whole idea of a 'basic spec' model is to get you interested in the car at the lowest price possible. Then you realise i really want cruise control or leather steering wheel or whatever. So you end up buying the next spec up.

Shefwedfan

dil999 wrote: »

I could be wrong, but i think the whole idea of a 'basic spec' model is to get you interested in the car at the lowest price possible. Then you realise i really want cruise control or leather steering wheel or whatever. So you end up buying the next spec up.

The basic spec seems to be for Irish market....if you look at any car in Ireland and then look at UK equivalent it has twice the spec

Irish people seem to be the only ones who don't care about any comfort inside there cars....it is shocking the spec on some cars and people lap it up

maidhc

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The basic spec seems to be for Irish market....if you look at any car in Ireland and then look at UK equivalent it has twice the spec

Irish people seem to be the only ones who don't care about any comfort inside there cars....it is shocking the spec on some cars and people lap it up

Even if this were true, does it actually matter to you how people spend their cash?

Reality is the above held true in the 90s, but not now; except where vrt makes the extras a bridge too far for the model.

Shefwedfan

maidhc wrote: »

Even if this were true, does it actually matter to you how people spend their cash?

Reality is the above held true in the 90s, but not now; except where vrt makes the extras a bridge too far for the model.

It doesn't make any difference to me....I responded to someone....thats the point of a forum....

Irish people seems to prefer the lowest spec car possible when compared to other countries....and it is the exact same today....

Personally I would never drive the spec on majority of cars in Ireland....I dont mind spending a few quid to get comfort

Casati

If you talk to dealers it's they will tell you it's still a diesel market for anything above Fiesta size, a BMW dealer I spoke to recently said he sold only 2 new petrol (i.e. Not a single 330e) this year, and if somebody came in with a two year old petrol BMW he didn't know what it would be worth as all his customers want diesels

Fords launched the 1.0 Mondeo about 4 years ago but I don't think a single one has made it to Ireland, they won't supply them as they don't see any demand for them

NyOmnishambles

dil999 wrote: »

I could be wrong, but i think the whole idea of a 'basic spec' model is to get you interested in the car at the lowest price possible. Then you realise i really want cruise control or leather steering wheel or whatever. So you end up buying the next spec up.

Maybe but they seemed desperate to push us towards these models

To be honest they couldn't discount them enough to get me to take them, I went in knowing I would want the higher spec model, it was the dealer that took convincing

Though to be on topic, they still aren't convinced enough to find me a petrol version regardless of spec

Casati

grogi wrote: »

Toyota Corp. is not investing into diesel R&D at all.

Lexus IS isn't sold with diesels at least since 2014. Other models similarly...

And as a result they aren't exactly kicking any sales records in Europe are they?

grogi

Casati wrote: »

And as a result they aren't exactly kicking any sales records in Europe are they?

They grew European market share from 0.14% in 2010 to 0.29% in 2016. It's still abysmal - but it was even worse when they were selling diesels.

I personally would buy a hybrid Lexus drive-train over a diesel Merc/Bmw every time. The issue is somewhere else, the design of the cars is not something that appeals to the crowd that has money I guess.